Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: holey head on 03 September 2007, 20:43:38
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hi all
have noticed recently that when i'm driving and i dip clutch revs won't go below 1000rpm untill car has stopped moving <stopped completly> is this normal? or any ideas what problem could be so i can sort it?
cheers all
steve
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No this is not normal. Mine is doing the same thing. I have no air leaks so that can be ruled out. The leads are ok, Plugs are fine so that just leaves the IAV to be replaced but not sure.
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might take it apart and try cleaning it! if can be done?
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Yes it can. Just remove the air filter trunking from the throttle body then remove the two bolts from the IAV to throttle body. Once this has been done you will see two small screw's on the IAV undo these then pull apart. Spray carb cleaner in the bottom half of the IAV give it a good clean both halves. Refitting is the reversal of removing. I have done this and it made no difference thats why I think the IACV needs replacing or the idle needs turning down. Hope this helps.
Cheers Paul :y
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You can't turn the idle down, it is ecu controlled.
The problem is almost certainly going to be a vacuum/air leak or a sticking idle control valve.
The valve should be cleaned with the entire breather system (including that very small hole on the side of the throttle body).
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Another possibility is a coolant temperature sensor that's failing and reporting a colder-than-reality temperature to the ECU. This results in overfuelling, and revs that don't behave as expected/required. If you rule out everything else, and the problem gets gradually worse, this could be worth checking. Mine failed as a result of chafing/shorting between the sensor signal wire and injector wires ( :o) in the trunking along the side of the engine. I suppose I should be glad that the ECU survived that!
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You can't turn the idle down, it is ecu controlled.
The problem is almost certainly going to be a vacuum/air leak or a sticking idle control valve.
The valve should be cleaned with the entire breather system (including that very small hole on the side of the throttle body).
TB, all of this I have cleaned and replaced but still the same, except the IACV I have not replaced this yet. So this is the next thing on the list after I have replaced the steering link bar. Hopefully this is all that needs doing to make it run better.
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cheers all. cleaned breathers recently so not them! will take tb off and give it all a good clean! needs it has what looks like oil on butterfly!
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Almost certain the butterfly will be sticking open.
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What makes you think its not normal?
Given that the 2.0 ECU setup is similar to the 1.8 and I have recently been looking at the settings on a 1.8 as a bit of a training exercise, this unit has two settable idle settings....
....one for static and one for moving.....
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I tend to agree with 'Marks DTM Calib' on this.
When my car was in it's 'Stalling' era, with blocked small breather,
oiling up IACV, and intermittent Crank Sensor, the idle would drop below below
1000 rpm when in over-run (auto).
When all problems where fixed, the car ran very smoothly and idle stayed
circa 1000 rpm until speed reduced to zero, when it gently and smoothly
reduced to 750 rpm.
Exactly what you want in an auto.
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If somebody wants to pop a 2.0 round to me, I am more than happy to confirm this setup using tech 2
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Mine (X20XEV) is exactly the same, and I've never thought of it as not normal. It makes sense to me that the revs are kept up a bit while still moving, in case you decide not to stop after all.
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I tend to agree with 'Marks DTM Calib' on this.
When my car was in it's 'Stalling' era, with blocked small breather,
oiling up IACV, and intermittent Crank Sensor, the idle would drop below below
1000 rpm when in over-run (auto).
When all problems where fixed, the car ran very smoothly and idle stayed
circa 1000 rpm until speed reduced to zero, when it gently and smoothly
reduced to 750 rpm.
Exactly what you want in an auto.
That is also how mine behaved.
Just to emphasize , its critical that the small hole/port and the small breather hose that connects to it are clear.
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cheers all. wiil try cleaning tb. is there a how 2 anywhere?
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There is one for a 2.2 which is fairly similar.
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There is a guide here :- http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152787758
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I tend to agree with 'Marks DTM Calib' on this.
When my car was in it's 'Stalling' era, with blocked small breather,
oiling up IACV, and intermittent Crank Sensor, the idle would drop below below
1000 rpm when in over-run (auto).
When all problems where fixed, the car ran very smoothly and idle stayed
circa 1000 rpm until speed reduced to zero, when it gently and smoothly
reduced to 750 rpm.
Exactly what you want in an auto.
Even when I had my auto it never idle'd at 1000 rpm more like 850 - 900. My 2.0 ltr is a manual and shouldn't be idling at 1000 rpm when not moving. when slowing down and not in gear it idles at 1100 rpm then drops to 1000rpm. They should idle between 850 - 900 +/- 50 rpm.
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Hi Vauxhallomega1, I think we're saying the same thing. :)
You said: shouldn't be idling at 1000 rpm when not moving.
I said: until speed reduced to zero, when it gently and smoothly reduced to 750 rpm.
You said: when slowing down and not in gear it idles at 1100 rpm then drops to 1000rpm.
I said: idle stayed circa 1000 rpm until speed reduced to zero
Ref your They should idle between 850 - 900 +/- 50 rpm.
The specs as posted by Marks DTM Calib on the other place:
Engine - X20XEV
No Of Cylinders - 4
Configuration - Inline 4
Displacement - 1998
Bore (mm) - 86
Stroke (mm) - 86
Power KW/RPM - 100/5600
Torque Nm/rpm - 185/4000
Compression ratio - 10.8:1
Engine management - Simtec 56.5
Idle speed - 670-1030
Max rpm - 6400
Firing order - 1-3-4-2
I think this range encompasses both our 'Standing' Idle speeds.
http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-73334.html
I really don't see that we have a disagreement. :)
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Hi Vauxhallomega1, I think we're saying the same thing. :)
You said: shouldn't be idling at 1000 rpm when not moving.
I said: until speed reduced to zero, when it gently and smoothly reduced to 750 rpm.
You said: when slowing down and not in gear it idles at 1100 rpm then drops to 1000rpm.
I said: idle stayed circa 1000 rpm until speed reduced to zero
Ref your They should idle between 850 - 900 +/- 50 rpm.
The specs as posted by Marks DTM Calib on the other place:
Engine - X20XEV
No Of Cylinders - 4
Configuration - Inline 4
Displacement - 1998
Bore (mm) - 86
Stroke (mm) - 86
Power KW/RPM - 100/5600
Torque Nm/rpm - 185/4000
Compression ratio - 10.8:1
Engine management - Simtec 56.5
Idle speed - 670-1030
Max rpm - 6400
Firing order - 1-3-4-2
I think this range encompasses both our 'Standing' Idle speeds.
http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-73334.html
I really don't see that we have a disagreement. :)
As I said when not moving it shouldn't be idleing at a 1000 rpm it should be less than this, as my 2.0ltr AUTO 2000 idled at 900 rpm when stationary and the speedo at 0 mph now my 95 2.0ltr idles at 1000 rpm when the speedo is at 0 mph stationary in neutral handbrake on. i am sure I have seen in a data book that the idle speed should be inbetween 850 - 900 +/- 50. I am not trying to upset anyone OR trying to say that you are all wrong its just what I have red somewhere. I thought that idling at 1000 rpm and above wood mean the fuel consumption would be terrible. Also to let you know the idle doesn't drop from 1000rpm it stay's at 1000 rpm.
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:D actually, I'm really happy to see this, having just totally cleaned my throttle body for the first time in 4 years, oops. And yes, it was very black, my idle slowly drops to around 750/800 at rest from around a 1000rpm. So if this is normal and it sounds that way, I'm happy with that. ;)
Better add, mine is a 2lt 16v manual ::)
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I am not trying to upset anyone OR trying to say that you are all wrong
I never thought that for a minute, nor, I suspect, does anyone else.
This is a discussion forum, where we all put forward our own ideas
on stuff.
Be a bit boring and uninformative if we all just parroted the same stuff,
wouldn't it. :)
That's the problem with web forums, the only input you get is the written
word.
When face to face, you can pick up on the body language, the facial expressions,
catch the subtle nuance in the phrasing of the spoken words etc..
I've seen many spats break out, totally unnecessarily, because of a misunderstanding,
on other forums.
Hopefully we won't get that on here. :)
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I am not trying to upset anyone OR trying to say that you are all wrong
I never thought that for a minute, nor, I suspect, does anyone else.
This is a discussion forum, where we all put forward our own ideas
on stuff.
Be a bit boring and uninformative if we all just parroted the same stuff,
wouldn't it. :)
That's the problem with web forums, the only input you get is the written
word.
When face to face, you can pick up on the body language, the facial expressions,
catch the subtle nuance in the phrasing of the spoken words etc..
I've seen many spats break out, totally unnecessarily, because of a misunderstanding,
on other forums.
Hopefully we won't get that on here. :)
Not from me anyway!! Anyway bought a new IACV from ebay the right part number for my car so when that arrives, and before it goes on, the throttle body will be cleaned thoroughly and refitted so hopefully all will be ok again.
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If you drive off when engine is cold and running on 'fast idle' it will only attempt to reset the idle to normal (warm) speed when the throttle is closed and the car comes to a stop. I used to play a game of trying to get to work without stopping, the airflow needed to maintain 1000 rpm on a winter morning start-up would cause the engine to run at over 2000 rpm once warmed up...tricky with frost on some of the bends on the site access road. ;D
I thought Marks statement of different idle speeds for stationary and moving only applied to fly-by-wire throttle, may be wrong, he'll educate me tomorrow no doubt.
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Paul,
worth checking that the vac hoses are all ok (I eventually found that the white one that goes round the back to the EGR had snapped off at the EGR), that the throttle butterfly is not sticking open a bit or that the throttle cable is not adjusted to keep the butterfly open a tad - apparently a common 'fix' when the stalling problem arises..
Cheers,
Ian
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cheers all. cleaned breathers recently so not them! will take tb off and give it all a good clean! needs it has what looks like oil on butterfly!
A good clean with Carb Cleaner and add a drop of 3in1 oil to the flap hinges and it may prevent the sticking. Mine was awful after I cleaned it the first time and as I think I dislodged some crud, but a second clean and a new gasket sorted it out.
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I used to play a game of trying to get to work without stopping
There's an organisation dedicated to doing just that (amongst other things)! It's called the IAM ;)
Seriously, by minimising the stop/start procedure you can save a significant amount of fuel. Planning your approach to hazards in good time and selecting correct gears at the right time keeps your vehicle moving and keeps the traffic moving around you :y That's the theory anyway. Basic stuff but give it a try, tis a much smoother way of driving.
VO1 - Hope you get the problem rectified. I think we develop a bit of a 6th sense for when our vehicle is not working quite right, even when it's hard to explain in words! :)
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Seriously, by minimising the stop/start procedure you can save a significant amount of fuel. Planning your approach to hazards in good time and selecting correct gears at the right time keeps your vehicle moving and keeps the traffic moving around you :y That's the theory anyway. Basic stuff but give it a try, tis a much smoother way of driving.
..I try to do that - you also get away from the lights quicker from a rolling start, esp in a big car like the Omega. People behind get really pissed though - apparently there is a prize for being first to arrive at a red light ::)
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hi all,
just been to york and back and the car only started doing it on way bk when engine was nice and warm. oh and i haven't touched anything on the car yet.
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Paul,
worth checking that the vac hoses are all ok (I eventually found that the white one that goes round the back to the EGR had snapped off at the EGR), that the throttle butterfly is not sticking open a bit or that the throttle cable is not adjusted to keep the butterfly open a tad - apparently a common 'fix' when the stalling problem arises..
Cheers,
Ian
Checked all the vac pipes and they are all ok, all the breathers are ok too, So there is no problem there. Thank god.
VO1 - Hope you get the problem rectified. I think we develop a bit of a 6th sense for when our vehicle is not working quite right, even when it's hard to explain in words!
Well I did get the problem sorted out thanks, gave the throttle body a bloody good clean and took it off and cleaned the underside as well, Fitted a new IACV, which I bought off ebay, and guess what happened next......
The idle shot straight upto 2500 rpm and would not drop, then started to hunt but would not go below 2000rpm. Refitted the old IACV and a new gasket on the throttl body and all was fine. Took the old IACV off and refitted the new IACV and again shot upto 2500 rpm took it off and put the old one back on and all is fine. She now idles at about 950 rpm but I would still need it reducing down a bit but needs doing with tech 1 due to this being a bit high still I am using a bit to much fuel. Once she has been dropped down to say 850 rpm then the major service will be done.