Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: old cruiser on 13 September 2007, 19:53:06

Title: autobox issue
Post by: old cruiser on 13 September 2007, 19:53:06
Anyone with an Ar25 box find 2nd to 3rd gear change when crawling in slow traffic a pain where ; if it changes up to 3rd at the same as lifting off the throttle  as it were I get this DOOF sound (only way I can describe it) almost as if it gets confused whether it should be changing up or down (ECU has been upgraded to v.10) may well be normal but God is it annoying!!
cheers Pete
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: philayl on 13 September 2007, 19:55:27
Quote
Anyone with an Ar25 box find 2nd to 3rd gear change when crawling in slow traffic a pain where ; if it changes up to 3rd at the same as lifting off the throttle  as it were I get this DOOF sound (only way I can describe it) almost as if it gets confused whether it should be changing up or down (ECU has been upgraded to v.10) may well be normal but God is it annoying!!
cheers Pete
Hi, I had the same problem, I got the autobox software updated and it has been a lot better since, might be worth giving it a go.
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: old cruiser on 13 September 2007, 20:08:52
Hi mate, had it upgraded to version. 10 a while back and as you say it has improved it but is still there, 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd are always ok in traffic, probably just another thing I'll have to put up with with these damn cars, God I need to win the Lottery  and get a proper well built car!!  ;D
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Entwood on 13 September 2007, 22:28:12
Didn't the guys who nearly went to Wales all have theirs upgraded to V9 ??  and there was a comment (can't find it now) that there was no version 10 yet ??  

or am I having a "senior moment"  .. ??  :)

Edit .. found half of what I remember ...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189112446

and the other half ... not going mad !! (read page 2)

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1188751005

Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: mantahatch on 13 September 2007, 22:55:02
Hi Chaps
If I may make a small suggestion, I spend a fair bit of time in slow, stop start traffic going up a steep hill, and this annoyed me. So what I do is to press the sport button, as I am sure you are all aware it holds it longer in each gear.
It is not a cure, but makes my life a little bit easier, and costs nothing to try. Hope it may help.

Best Regards

Mike
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: old cruiser on 14 September 2007, 08:51:41
i sometimes do that Mike and you're right it does help, also find depending on how slow the traffic flow is I select 2nd gear so that it only changes from 1st to second.
Cheers Pete
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: old cruiser on 14 September 2007, 08:55:49
Entwood, defineatly Version.10 that was put on mine.
Cheers Pete
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Martin_1962 on 14 September 2007, 09:04:31
Mine used to do it before a SW update

Try an oil change too
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Jay w on 14 September 2007, 09:20:22
i have put id down to shher bad timing.....ill explain

Just as the box decides to change up you drop the throttle, it then gets confused and goes for the original option, but as you are slowing down it seems to have a dragging effect and so makes a loud clunk, once it has changed up it then changes back down again and so sounds like it is confused as it is cog swapping
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 14 September 2007, 13:56:57
Quote
i have put id down to shher bad timing.....ill explain

Just as the box decides to change up you drop the throttle, it then gets confused and goes for the original option, but as you are slowing down it seems to have a dragging effect and so makes a loud clunk, once it has changed up it then changes back down again and so sounds like it is confused as it is cog swapping

My 2.2 does the same......i just put it down to bad timing.....ie ive altered the throttle position at the same time as it decided to change.

Dunno if your does this as well.......Go up a moderately steep hill steady throttle postion....the box decides to change from 2nd to 3rd.....a sec later it realises this was a mistake and changes back to 2nd!
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: old cruiser on 14 September 2007, 19:33:04
 Taxidriver, mine used to do that even up a less than moderate slope and thrash it's nuts off until on the downward slope, since the V.10 gearbox upgrade it doesn't do that anymore, what version software does yours have?
Cheers Pete
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 14 September 2007, 21:26:57
Quote
Taxidriver, mine used to do that even up a less than moderate slope and thrash it's nuts off until on the downward slope, since the V.10 gearbox upgrade it doesn't do that anymore, what version software does yours have?
Cheers Pete

V10....
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 14 September 2007, 21:32:03
The other annoying thing it does......is floor it on uphill slope....then level out....it can be reving at 4-5k revs.....it wont change up until i release the accelarator....even tho its doing 4-5k revs on level ground and not increasing in speed.....take my foot off.....it changes up then i can apply the power again  >:(
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: TheBoy on 14 September 2007, 21:48:37
There is a V0A (v10), released around the turn of the year...
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: old cruiser on 15 September 2007, 09:03:16
Quote
The other annoying thing it does......is floor it on uphill slope....then level out....it can be reving at 4-5k revs.....it wont change up until i release the accelarator....even tho its doing 4-5k revs on level ground and not increasing in speed.....take my foot off.....it changes up then i can apply the power again  >:(

That's what mine was doing before the v.10 upgrade, strange why yours is still doing it with the same upgrade.
The Boy , when you say VOA (v.10) what is the VOA bit ?
Cheers Pete
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 September 2007, 09:29:46
V0A

Version 0A  and 0A in hex is 10.

A fluid change may help but, remember that the autobox has an adaptive setup to adjusts to your driving style....hence why after the 'nearly wales' the cars I had given a thrash will have been driving slightly differently and also why AA's car changes gear at 972 rpm....
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: TheBoy on 15 September 2007, 10:08:44
Quote
V0A

Version 0A  and 0A in hex is 10.

A fluid change may help but, remember that the autobox has an adaptive setup to adjusts to your driving style....hence why after the 'nearly wales' the cars I had given a thrash will have been driving slightly differently and also why AA's car changes gear at 972 rpm....
Yeah right, you mean 9720 rpm ;) ;D
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Martin_1962 on 15 September 2007, 10:14:54
In sports mine changes up around 6600 - but it is running a little off so I am checking it this weekend
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: TheBoy on 15 September 2007, 10:16:32
Quote
In sports mine changes up around 6600 - but it is running a little off so I am checking it this weekend
With the new software, it should change up at redline even in 'economy' program, if you foot is hard planted....
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Pitchfork on 15 September 2007, 10:52:37
Does the box need to relearn one's driving style after a change of battery?
Mine appears to be behaving differently since the new battery last weekend
IW
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: TheBoy on 15 September 2007, 12:56:34
Quote
Does the box need to relearn one's driving style after a change of battery?
Mine appears to be behaving differently since the new battery last weekend
IW
Should adapt very quickly.

What is the box doing? Misbehaving?  You have a tractor, so the original box is good for about 120 - 150k normally...
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: bash on 15 September 2007, 22:20:27
It must be catching this gearbox problem. I have just bought an Omega  2.2 CD 2002 petrol. And i have just spent a fortune trying to get it to run spot on. Re- gearbox i have had the same issues ,in a morning hangs on before changing up gears, paid for full gearbox service then i was told this is normal for this cars gearbox. Also sometimes if stuck in traffic, when i pull away  it sometimes wont change up until about 3000rpm then is fine again, although i have found it all depends where you have the throttle positioned. I have  had the car on diagnostic machine for gearbox check every thing is OK they say. Also on hills it cannot make up its mind what gear it wants to be in
                                     Plus can i ask if other 2.2 omega owners feel the same as myself, that they are let down by the tick over, it is not very smooth, plus the engine sounds agricultural for a top of the range luxury saloon. I have spent hundred's trying to sort this car out. New exhaust manifold (cracked) new diss pack and cam cover gasket's plus plugs. Cleaned every breather pipe out plus can eat your dinner off the throttle body. Again it has been on diagnostic machine for the engine this time, again  every thing is coming up as OK. I have owned other luxury cars or cars that cost the same as these when new, and it is not a patch on the Jaguar, BMW, or even the Maxima i have owned. It is a shame really as i will admit on the motorway it runs spot on, and the handling is excellent, So is the ride and comfort. It is just a pity its let down by the idle and the gearbox problems, regards bash
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: TheBoy on 15 September 2007, 22:26:41
Quote
It must be catching this gearbox problem. I have just bought a 2.2 CD 2002 i have just spent a fortune trying to get it spot on. Re- gearbox i have had the same issues ,in a morning hangs on before changing up gears, paid for full gearbox service then i was told this is normal for this cars gearbox. Also sometimes if stuck in traffic, when i pull away  it sometimes wont change up until about 3000rpm then is fine again, although i have found it all depends where you have the throttle positioned. I have  had the car on diagnostic machine for gearbox check every thing is OK they say. Also on hills it cannot make up its mind what gear it wants to be in
                                     Plus can i ask if other 2.2 omega owners feel the same as myself, that they are let down by the tick over, it is not very smooth, plus the engine sounds agricultural for a top of the range luxury saloon. I have spent hundred's trying to sort this car out. New exhaust manifold (crack) new diss pack and cam cover gasket's plus plugs. Cleaned every breather pipe out plus can eat your dinner off the throttle body. Again been on diagnostic machine for engine this time, again  every thing is coming up as OK. I have owned other luxury cars or cars that cost the same as these when new, and it is not a patch on Jaguar, BMW, or even the Sigma i have owned. It is a shame really as i will admit on the motorway it runs spot on, and the handling is excellent, So is the ride and comfort. It is just a pity its let down by the idle and the gearbox problems, regards bash
If the gearbox is misbehaving, it is likely mechanical.  Start by changing fluid first.  If it is just smoothness, v9 (or later) software helps.

2.2 idle isn't silky smooth like 6 cylinders engines, as its only 4 cylinder.  Saying that, its no worse than most 4 cylinder ones  :-/

And also remember, computer diagnostics are useless unless the user knows what it is saying, and can interperate the live data readings.
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: bash on 15 September 2007, 22:50:51
Cheers for the reply, i agree about the smoothness of the engine, i may be harsh comparing a 4 cylinder to a six, but i still think even compared to other manufacturers 4 cylinder engine's. The  Omega 2.2 litre is not as smooth or as quite . As for the fluid change, this was done with a filter change when i had the gearbox service done and the gearbox diagnostic check only a couple of weeks ago. The place that did the gearbox diagnostic check and service is classed as the best place for gearbox's in my area. It repairs and rebuilds  all the luxury ,and top of the range sports cars with all the most up to date diagnostics's available it even does the main dealer's gearbox problem's for them. Also the chap who does the engine diagnostics runs a rolling road tuning place . Sets up Rally and Track car's plus super car's, and as he says . The equipment has not shown any faults in the last ( i cannot remember) but so many starts, and he has even gone through the check with me showing the throttle position, drive by wire and all other parameters working just as they should. I will admit it is far better now the manifold and diss pack has been done. BUT from what i have read on the forum the gearbox has been a pain from day one in the Omega. RE- the 2,2 engine not a lot is posted on it, this is why i have asked for others with the same engine to comment Regards bash
PS i am not complaining about the smoothness of the gear change, it is just it seems to have a mind of its own on hills . Plus unlike other auto box's it does not seem to have set rev ranges for gear changes plus it is super sensitive to how much throttle you use, re one reply i cannot get my box to not change before red line, even when i have the peddle to the floor
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: TheBoy on 15 September 2007, 23:13:26
Quote
Cheers for the reply, i agree about the smoothness of the engine, i may be harsh comparing a 4 cylinder to a six, but i still think even compared to other manufacturers 4 cylinder engine's. The  Omega 2.2 litre is not as smooth or as quite . As for the fluid change, this was done with a filter change when i had the gearbox service done and the gearbox diagnostic check only a couple of weeks ago. The place that did the gearbox diagnostic check and service is classed as the best place for gearbox's in my area. It repairs and rebuilds  all the luxury ,and top of the range sports cars with all the most up to date diagnostics's available it even does the main dealer's gearbox problem's for them. Also the chap who does the engine diagnostics runs a rolling road tuning place . Sets up Rally and Track car's plus super car's, and as he says . The equipment has not shown any faults in the last ( i cannot remember) but so many starts, and he has even gone through the check with me showing the throttle position, drive by wire and all other parameters working just as they should. I will admit it is far better now the manifold and diss pack has been done. BUT from what i have read on the forum the gearbox has been a pain from day one in the Omega. RE- the 2,2 engine not a lot is posted on it, this is why i have asked for others with the same engine to comment Regards bash
PS i am not complaining about the smoothness of the gear change, it is just it seems to have a mind of its own on hills . Plus unlike other auto box's it does not seem to have set rev ranges for gear changes plus it is super sensitive to how much throttle you use, re one reply i cannot get my box to not change before red line, even when i have the peddle to the floor
The box, in economy (normal) mode is adaptive - its change points will vary based on your recent driving style.  Rag it around the lanes for a few miles, and you will notice it starts changing up higher, and down earlier.  Drive like grandad, and it will start changing up lower...   ...that is the design.

Later software does tend to improve the general drivability of the box, as GM develop it...  (in particular, the step v8 to v9 is a much better firware)
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: bash on 15 September 2007, 23:37:08
Many thanks for the info , i will watch and see how it behaves in the next few days driving steady for a day then giving it some boot, will admit hardly ever put it into sports mode. Re- soft ware up grade is this an upgrade you buy and have fitted , or can my gearbox centre re programme the box using the most recent diagnostic equipment.
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 15 September 2007, 23:46:36
Quote
Cheers for the reply, i agree about the smoothness of the engine, i may be harsh comparing a 4 cylinder to a six, but i still think even compared to other manufacturers 4 cylinder engine's. The  Omega 2.2 litre is not as smooth or as quite . As for the fluid change, this was done with a filter change when i had the gearbox service done and the gearbox diagnostic check only a couple of weeks ago. The place that did the gearbox diagnostic check and service is classed as the best place for gearbox's in my area. It repairs and rebuilds  all the luxury ,and top of the range sports cars with all the most up to date diagnostics's available it even does the main dealer's gearbox problem's for them. Also the chap who does the engine diagnostics runs a rolling road tuning place . Sets up Rally and Track car's plus super car's, and as he says . The equipment has not shown any faults in the last ( i cannot remember) but so many starts, and he has even gone through the check with me showing the throttle position, drive by wire and all other parameters working just as they should. I will admit it is far better now the manifold and diss pack has been done. BUT from what i have read on the forum the gearbox has been a pain from day one in the Omega. RE- the 2,2 engine not a lot is posted on it, this is why i have asked for others with the same engine to comment Regards bash
PS i am not complaining about the smoothness of the gear change, it is just it seems to have a mind of its own on hills . Plus unlike other auto box's it does not seem to have set rev ranges for gear changes plus it is super sensitive to how much throttle you use, re one reply i cannot get my box to not change before red line, even when i have the peddle to the floor

Mine does in sports mode  :y Floor it in sports mode and it doesnt change until it gets to red line  ;)
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 15 September 2007, 23:49:19
Quote
Cheers for the reply, i agree about the smoothness of the engine, i may be harsh comparing a 4 cylinder to a six, but i still think even compared to other manufacturers 4 cylinder engine's. The  Omega 2.2 litre is not as smooth or as quite . As for the fluid change, this was done with a filter change when i had the gearbox service done and the gearbox diagnostic check only a couple of weeks ago. The place that did the gearbox diagnostic check and service is classed as the best place for gearbox's in my area. It repairs and rebuilds  all the luxury ,and top of the range sports cars with all the most up to date diagnostics's available it even does the main dealer's gearbox problem's for them. Also the chap who does the engine diagnostics runs a rolling road tuning place . Sets up Rally and Track car's plus super car's, and as he says . The equipment has not shown any faults in the last ( i cannot remember) but so many starts, and he has even gone through the check with me showing the throttle position, drive by wire and all other parameters working just as they should. I will admit it is far better now the manifold and diss pack has been done. BUT from what i have read on the forum the gearbox has been a pain from day one in the Omega. RE- the 2,2 engine not a lot is posted on it, this is why i have asked for others with the same engine to comment Regards bash
PS i am not complaining about the smoothness of the gear change, it is just it seems to have a mind of its own on hills . Plus unlike other auto box's it does not seem to have set rev ranges for gear changes plus it is super sensitive to how much throttle you use, re one reply i cannot get my box to not change before red line, even when i have the peddle to the floor

I know what you mean.....mines the same  :-?
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: korum on 16 September 2007, 08:33:10
Hmmm maybe its something different in the 2.2's i hvae a 2002 cd auto and mines the same, when crawling along in traffic it cant decide what gear it wants and will clunk when you let go of the throttle.
Also when im travelling at around 45 and ive got the throttle just enough to keep that speed the box cant decide if it wants 4th or the lock down gear??

very enoying  >:(
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: TheBoy on 16 September 2007, 09:14:46
Quote
Many thanks for the info , i will watch and see how it behaves in the next few days driving steady for a day then giving it some boot, will admit hardly ever put it into sports mode. Re- soft ware up grade is this an upgrade you buy and have fitted , or can my gearbox centre re programme the box using the most recent diagnostic equipment.

Tech2 required to do the programming, not generic readers such as crypton or snap-on
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: TheBoy on 16 September 2007, 09:16:51
Quote
Hmmm maybe its something different in the 2.2's i hvae a 2002 cd auto and mines the same, when crawling along in traffic it cant decide what gear it wants and will clunk when you let go of the throttle.
Also when im travelling at around 45 and ive got the throttle just enough to keep that speed the box cant decide if it wants 4th or the lock down gear??

very enoying  >:(
Worth trying the updated software - there is a nice man just across the M1 from you who has the equipment - our very own Marks_DTM ;)

for prices, see http://theboy.omegaowners.com
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Markjay on 16 September 2007, 09:29:17
My autobox woks very well since the v9 upgrade. However, it would be interesting to know if anyone upgraded from v9 to v10.... and if so is it noticeably better. This is of course a a general query for everyone's benefit  ::) nothing to do with the fact that I have v9  ;D
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: TheBoy on 16 September 2007, 09:41:39
Quote
My autobox woks very well since the v9 upgrade. However, it would be interesting to know if anyone upgraded from v9 to v10.... and if so is it noticeably better. This is of course a a general query for everyone's benefit  ::) nothing to do with the fact that I have v9  ;D
I've driven a number of v0A cars (seemingly all 2.2s iirc), and lots of v09 cars.  Can't tell the difference myself...
Title: Re: autobox issue
Post by: Markjay on 16 September 2007, 09:47:39
Quote
Quote
My autobox woks very well since the v9 upgrade. However, it would be interesting to know if anyone upgraded from v9 to v10.... and if so is it noticeably better. This is of course a a general query for everyone's benefit  ::) nothing to do with the fact that I have v9  ;D
I've driven a number of v0A cars (seemingly all 2.2s iirc), and lots of v09 cars.  Can't tell the difference myself...

Phew...

One less thing to worry about after I just finished upgrading my PCs' BIOS and the Nokia firmware!  ;D