Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: V8S on 25 September 2007, 15:02:53
-
Hi all,
Found this site through a post on VXON. I'm hoping some learned people here can help me.
I want to buy a facelift Omega saloon in the next couple of months, but, ideally, I want a manual. That's obviously my first problem. I've always driven manuals and it wasn't until Saturday that I first drove an automatic, which was also my first drive in an Omega. It was only a short round-the-block test and I hope to have a longer test soon, but I still have the nagging doubt that I'd never be able to live with an auto for long. Gearchanges are part of the driving experience for me. As you all know, finding manuals can be a bit difficult and I'm looking for a reasonably specific spec because it will be a car I'll keep for a long time.
But with all the automatics out there, I would be stupid, I think, to overlook some great auto cars in preference for a possibly average manual. Does anyone have any pros and cons for the auto / manual. I have driven a couple of manuals but not the right spec. My girlfriend says I should just go for a good auto and keep my toy car for manual driving but I'm really not sure.
I'm looking for a 01 or later Elite or MV6 2.6 V6 petrol with dark leather interior, FSH and under 80k miles. Nationally there just doesn't seem to be any when I look in the usual places.
I have also seen a 3.0 MV6 but that's an older car than I would prefer.
I've looked online and can't find a very specific guide to what the difference is between an MV6 and an Elite, apart from the sportier suspension. Do they both have the self levelling suspension and all the toys? Wisebuyers suggests they are the same spec.
-
Hello and welcome.
The Elite has a couple more toys than the MV6-heated rear seats, maybe satnav, better stereo, self leveling suspension, leather as standard, wood trim, blah, blah.
Finding a manual Elite ::) MV6 is a very nice car with the right amount of toys.IMHO.
You will just have to keep looking :(
Manual or Auto- all down to individual choice...
-
I find that a used Auto is usually in a better mechanical condition
than a used Manual.
It compensates for the useless or lazy driver and reduces the wear
and shock loading that they put on the drivetrain.
If they are not slamming the clutch off and shocking every bearing
from the Big Ends back to the diff, they drive lazy in too high a gear.
Remember back to when you used to ride a push bike. Can you remember
the creaks and groans you used to subject your crank to, when you tried
to ride up that hill, or along the flat at too slow a speed, without swapping down a cog or two?
Now transpose that into the loading on your car's engine and drivetrain
when the lazy or incompetent driver does that to his car.
Driving a car in too high a gear will do more damage than the typical typecast
'yoof' in a baseball cap revving the nuts off his 'personalised' motor.
An Auto is always driven smoother with the optimal engine/drivetrain loading
controlled by the car's electronics/autobox, and will have been subjected to
far less abuse and shock loading.
Don't really see the point of manuals, myself. You spend most of your time
cruising motorways/dual carriageways without changing gear,
or stop starting in town traffic pumping your left leg up and down on the clutch.
Why not just use an Auto and go to the gym to exercise your left leg. :)
-
I've only had my 2.6 V6 auto for a couple of weeks and I had the same thoughts before I bought mine. Mine is an 02 reg with 40k on the clock.
Never owned an auto before... but was a pleasant surprise.. the drive is very relaxing. And put some weight on the throttle and boy she will take off! :y Thats without the sport mode selected...
Take one for a lenghty test drive first... :)
-
I find that a used Auto is usually in a better mechanical condition
than a used Manual.
It compensates for the useless or lazy driver and reduces the wear
and shock loading that they put on the drivetrain.
If they are not slamming the clutch off and shocking every bearing
from the Big Ends back to the diff, they drive lazy in too high a gear.
Remember back to when you used to ride a push bike. Can you remember
the creaks and groans you used to subject your crank to, when you tried
to ride up that hill, or along the flat at too slow a speed, without swapping down a cog or two?
Now transpose that into the loading on your car's engine and drivetrain
when the lazy or incompetent driver does that to his car.
Driving a car in too high a gear will do more damage than the typical typecast
'yoof' in a baseball cap revving the nuts off his 'personalised' motor.
An Auto is always driven smoother with the optimal engine/drivetrain loading
controlled by the car's electronics/autobox, and will have been subjected to
far less abuse and shock loading.
Don't really see the point of manuals, myself. You spend most of your time
cruising motorways/dual carriageways without changing gear,
or stop starting in town traffic pumping your left leg up and down on the clutch.
Why not just use an Auto and go to the gym to exercise your left leg. :)
I agree with everything he said, and would add the following...
Some folks "think" that auto means slow... forget it ... if you want to be a hooligan in a meega auto it is simple, select 2nd, sports mode on, use your right foot as hard as you like dare - don't have present fuel consumption selected on the HID.. it is dangerous to look at, both from the wallet point of view and you should be concentrating on where you are going ... 'cos you are getting there fast !!
Big Auto's ( meega, granny scorpio) are a pleasure to drive, and can be driven hard or soft, but when driven sensibly they are just relaxing and nice .. :)
-
Whilst the Omega has excellent performance and handling for its' size it's no sports car and I think that's when you really need a manual box. The V6 Omegas have plenty of power so there's no real need to be able to keep it on the boil all the time, and the sports mode doesn't doa bad job of that anyway.
I'd say your first auto will feel strange after a quick test drive but give it a bit longer and you'll learn to like it. After the first traffic jam or congested bit of city driving you'll really appreciate it. My Omega is mainly used for cruising around and an auto was certainly the best choiuce for that. I do also have a manual "toy" car and if it were not for that I'd probably have gone for a manual Omega.
Regarding your spec. You'll probably be luckier finding a manual box on an MV6 but leather was optional on these so that will be harder.
Test drive a few, preferable over a longer distance and see what takes your fancy.
Kevin
-
Thanks for all your comments, chaps. I'm coming round to the idea of an auto but I do need a longer test. I drive mostly country roads and trips up the motorway so I want something that can handle both.
Is an Elite or MV6 worth getting over a CDX do you think? I do like the thought of the top model as I shall keep it a long time.
Also, I can't work out if there were any 3.0s made after 2000 as I haven't come across any. I'd prefer the 3.0 for the sound (seems more meaty) and extra oomph and the MPG doesn't seem to suffer too much, but the later engines (BMW?) seem to be better.
All the manual MV6s I can find are estates!
Please keep the comments coming.
-
Someone has to sign the praises of a manual....
The V6 can be a bit thirsty (but is actually pretty good) and if you happen to be a tight git (like me) you may prefer the fuel economy of a manual. Should be able to get 34-35mpg in average driving conditions and close to 40 if you are careful on a long run. That's what mine is showing at the mo.
Generally speaking a manual box is probably more reliable than an auto as well
Having said all that I only ended up with a manual because of the price of the car, I wasn't specifically looking for manual or auto.
Good luck and the good thing is that all V6's come with a special feature that makes things in mirrors shrink and a big grin appear on your face. Usually found under your right foot!
-
auto's are fun for a while, but quickly loose their appeal. I still prefer a manual
-
I drive mostly country roads and trips up the motorway so I want something that can handle both.
There's no significant difference between the two on a motorway (except you can really rest your left foot with no pedal in the way!). Sweeping, fast country roads of the 50-60 +(cough!) speed range aren't bad with an auto. It's the really twisty roads with lower speeds that have me reaching for a gear stick.
Is an Elite or MV6 worth getting over a CDX do you think? I do like the thought of the top model as I shall keep it a long time.
Depends what floats your boat. See how prices compare. Most of the useful gadgets can be transplanted if you feel inclined in any case. I'd say it's more important to get a car in the right condition and the right money than worrying too much about spec level and colour, etc. MV6 has sportier suspension but that's not to difficult to retro fit either. I'm not a fan of having too many gadgets as they tend to be a pain when they start failing so an MV6 was fine for me.
Also, I can't work out if there were any 3.0s made after 2000 as I haven't come across any. I'd prefer the 3.0 for the sound (seems more meaty) and extra oomph and the MPG doesn't seem to suffer too much, but the later engines (BMW?) seem to be better.
The only BMW engines were the 2.5 TD. All the V6s are fundamentally the same Vauxhall engine although the 2.5 and 3.0 got phased out in favour of the 2.6 and 3.2 around 2000. They also got drive by wire throttles, lost some emissions controls and got coil on plug ignition. So, post 2000 it's a 3.2 you need to look out for :y (no manual gearbox option unless you go ex-police with this engine though).
Kevin
-
;D ;D [size=18]Where's Paul M?[/size] ;D ;D
He always like to give the pro's & cons of an auto a manual!! :y :y
-
If you think you want a manual, then thats what to go for. A few 2.6 MV6 manuals about. You won't find a 3.2 manual unless its ex-plod.
MV6 facelift is around CD spec (unlike prefacelift, where MV6 is around CDX spec).
Manual Elite will be harder to find.
-
You dont loose with auto unless autobox decides to give up !!.. (really pricey)
Comfy in city traffic..
but if you find a manual good one why not !
-
this is my first auto that i haven't converted to manual, mind you all the other autos i have bought have been small engined cars!!!
i love it, i have done over 40K since i got mine less than 16 months ago, smoot, effortless but yet when i want to drive the twisy stiff i still have a degree of control buy knocking it up and down through the box.
Some people will argue that a manual will have more involvement, more control and possibly more fun, i think it does depend on what you will be useing the car for, if there is a risk of being caught up in many traffic jams then i would take the auto everyday of the week......
-
95% of the time I prefer an auto... ...5% of time I wish I had a manual.
Its a choice you have to make...
-
95% of the time I prefer an auto... ...5% of time I wish I had a manual.
Its a choice you have to make...
More like 90% 10% for me.
WHen I need the last bit of performance manual would be nice, when stuck in traffic an auto is fantastic.
To be honest the 4L30 autos are excellent boxes and are the only autos I have driven which didn't annoy me
-
;D ;D [size=18]Where's Paul M?[/size] ;D ;D
He always like to give the pro's & cons of an auto a manual!! :y :y
On my way.... :D
-
I find that a used Auto is usually in a better mechanical condition
than a used Manual.
It compensates for the useless or lazy driver and reduces the wear
and shock loading that they put on the drivetrain.
If they are not slamming the clutch off and shocking every bearing
from the Big Ends back to the diff, they drive lazy in too high a gear.
Remember back to when you used to ride a push bike. Can you remember
the creaks and groans you used to subject your crank to, when you tried
to ride up that hill, or along the flat at too slow a speed, without swapping down a cog or two?
Now transpose that into the loading on your car's engine and drivetrain
when the lazy or incompetent driver does that to his car.
Driving a car in too high a gear will do more damage than the typical typecast
'yoof' in a baseball cap revving the nuts off his 'personalised' motor.
An Auto is always driven smoother with the optimal engine/drivetrain loading
controlled by the car's electronics/autobox, and will have been subjected to
far less abuse and shock loading.
Don't really see the point of manuals, myself. You spend most of your time
cruising motorways/dual carriageways without changing gear,
or stop starting in town traffic pumping your left leg up and down on the clutch.
Why not just use an Auto and go to the gym to exercise your left leg. :)
What a load of rubbish ;D
First I've heard of all those lazy Omega drivers seeking out manual versions so they can leave it in top gear all the time, or slam the clutch out lol.... Yes if I were a lazy driver I'd definitely go to the extra effort of finding a good manual Omega considering they're more difficult to find ::)
The reality is that most people buying large cars with larger engines like the Omega V6 with a manual gearbox are doing so because they want to drive the car properly -- that is be in full control of the car and shift gears themselves. In which case they're probably better drivers on average than those driving slushomatics, as they want more than just a "get me from A to B with as little effort as possible" type car.
Why don't you just get a chauffeur and go down to the gym to work out your arms instead of turning that big circular thing in front of the driver's seat?
Oh and you can bleat on about mechanical sympathy all day if you like, but I can almost guarantee your automatic geabox will fail long before my manual one will, even if you're the most sensible driver in the world :P
I've driven a few automatics and hated every minute of it, personally if I'm not in control I'd rather go the whole hog and let someone else do the driving.
My two pence :y
-
I almost forgot to answer the original poster's question :D
Anyway, if you're prepared to travel, and maybe wait a little for the right model to come up, it shouldn't be too hard to get hold of a facelift 2.6 V6 MV6. Unfortunately VX only made the 3.2 V6 manual for the police, most of which are pretty basic in terms of toys. Personally I wouldn't compromise, if I couldn't find a good manual 3.0 MV6 I woulnd't be driving an Omega today -- it's that simple! There are other models out there (such as the 540i/6 although it's a bit more expensive) and I'd rather choose one of those than accept an automatic.
-
............
In which case they're probably better drivers on average than those driving slushomatics, .......
Cough ... bo!!ocks !!!! ;D ;D ;D
I manage to drive my auto with complete control. I don't even need to lift a foot from either pedal - 2 pedals ... 2 feet! Complete control! :y :y
I now drive a manual every day ...... first time in about 18 years. I find it a complete ball (& left left ;D ) ache. I can't even take my brew with me in a morning! ;D ;D
-
Cough ... bo!!ocks !!!! ;D ;D ;D
I manage to drive my auto with complete control. I don't even need to lift a foot from either pedal - 2 pedals ... 2 feet! Complete control! :y :y
I now drive a manual every day ...... first time in about 18 years. I find it a complete ball (& left left ;D ) ache. I can't even take my brew with me in a morning! ;D ;D
Does that mean that with a manual, you have both hands on the steering wheel rather than having to decide whether to hold onto your left b*ll*ock, right b*ll*ck, or coffee cup!! ;D ;D :y
-
You have PM mate :y
As with any car, it's always worth buying the lowest mileage you can (especially if you are going to keep the motor for a while), even though most omegas will happily travel to 200,000 miles+
As somebody said, condition is a very good indicator and make sure the V6 has had a cambelt change every 40k.
.....I also think the auto box suits the car/engine very well (so that's why we drive manual diesels then :-/ !)
-
Welcome :)
i have the 2.2 auto and in the summer did a trip to mid wales,
now i mostly do motorway trip every day to work and back and get stuck in traffic alot and the auto is so relaxing to do this with.
The trip to wales i was worried with all them hills and narrow bendy roads but i was shocked at the poise and control it gave me :D
i ragged it around some mad roads in wales and loved every minute of it ;D (fuel consumtion was still above 20 as well)
in the end though its down to you this was my first auto and im very supprised and happy with it.
-
Dave - thanks for the PM, have replied. :y
All,
Thanks for the comments. I agree that getting a good car outweighs the spec, but I'm not in a rush at the moment to buy so hopefully I can wait for the right one to come along. I side with Paul in a way because I enjoy being involved with driving, not just sitting back and being chauffered by the car but sometimes I think I'd just like to relax.
My present weekday car revs highly in all gears (I'm in fifth before I reach 45!!), making any trip fuel-hungry and it's only a 1.6i. I'm looking for a comfortable ride in a nice environment (ability to smooth potholed Dorset roads essential), that can happily sit on the motorway at 90 (leptons) without revving to 5,000 rpm, but also be reasonably useful along country lanes without swallowing the oil reserves of the middle east in the process. I'd be using it to drive to work (5 miles each way) and trips around the countryside and also to places likes Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, etc when the mood takes me. I don't have kids to ferry around and having an estate Omega as a 30 year old bloke scares me as I've already got a few grey hairs! ;D
I could just get a diesel and be done with it but I've heard that they are gutless until the turbo kicks in, and I do like to drive my cars properly and improve my driving, not just stagnate behind the wheel.
-
Hold out for what you want then matey ;)
-
............
In which case they're probably better drivers on average than those driving slushomatics, .......
Cough ... bo!!ocks !!!! ;D ;D ;D
I manage to drive my auto with complete control. I don't even need to lift a foot from either pedal - 2 pedals ... 2 feet! Complete control! :y :y
I now drive a manual every day ...... first time in about 18 years. I find it a complete ball (& left left ;D ) ache. I can't even take my brew with me in a morning! ;D ;D
If and when you do actually learn to drive properly, you'll realise it's quite possible to control 3 pedals with two feet :y I take it you don't play guitar, you'd be stuck trying to play any chords that use more than 4 strings with only 4 fingers available :P
"Complete control" includes selecting the correct gear for the road conditions and anticipating actions ahead. Until we reach the day where slushomatics have little cameras up front mated to sophisticated image processing algorithms that can tell you're approaching a sharp bend and may need some engine braking, you're not getting anywhere near complete control. Oh and get rid of that damn torque converter too, having 500 RPM worth of slip in your transmission does absolutely nothing for control either :D ;)
Each to their own and all that, but if you place the driving experience above the "relaxing" characteristics of not having to change gear, then a manual gearbox is a very important feature of the car. I think Mark's DTM summed it up well when he owned both a 2.5 manual and 3.0 automatic Omega at one point, and he said he could go quicker overall on B-roads in the manual despite a 40 BHP deficit.
-
Dave - thanks for the PM, have replied. :y
All,
Thanks for the comments. I agree that getting a good car outweighs the spec, but I'm not in a rush at the moment to buy so hopefully I can wait for the right one to come along. I side with Paul in a way because I enjoy being involved with driving, not just sitting back and being chauffered by the car but sometimes I think I'd just like to relax.
My present weekday car revs highly in all gears (I'm in fifth before I reach 45!!), making any trip fuel-hungry and it's only a 1.6i. I'm looking for a comfortable ride in a nice environment (ability to smooth potholed Dorset roads essential), that can happily sit on the motorway at 90 (leptons) without revving to 5,000 rpm, but also be reasonably useful along country lanes without swallowing the oil reserves of the middle east in the process. I'd be using it to drive to work (5 miles each way) and trips around the countryside and also to places likes Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, etc when the mood takes me. I don't have kids to ferry around and having an estate Omega as a 30 year old bloke scares me as I've already got a few grey hairs! ;D
I could just get a diesel and be done with it but I've heard that they are gutless until the turbo kicks in, and I do like to drive my cars properly and improve my driving, not just stagnate behind the wheel.
The manual Omega is nothing like your Honda will be. I consider the 3.0 V6 quite a peaky engine, but that's compared to my 4.4 V8 BMW engine. Compared to your Honda it will actually be very torquey -- I'm assuming your Honda is a VTEC that peaks around 8,000 RPM and has gearing to match. The gearing on the Omega is quite high, for example in 5th gear at 80 MPH it's pulling just over 3,000 RPM. Personally I consider it a little too high as I'd rather have better acceleration, but it's great for the motorway as you can get decent economy and there's no audible engine noise at all. I think the Omega would really suit a 6th gear to get better acceleration without compromising the cruising ability, but you can't have it all!
As for fuel ecomomy, I average around 24 MPG in my 3.0 MV6, and I don't hang about -- it regularly sees 6,000 RPM. There's a fair bit of motorway mileage in there too, much of which is done in 5th gear which brings it up a little. Mine is dual-fuel though which is makes it a little less economical (still loads cheaper though) so on petrol that should rise to between 26 and 28 MPG average -- pretty good for a 210 BHP car weighing as much as a small country! For comparison my BMW gets between 14 and 18 MPG depending on driving style and the kind of roads, so the Omega is a huge improvement over that. And that's got a 6-speed box too, so 6th gear is actually a little higher than the Omega meaning it revs quite low on the motorway.
-
you'll realise it's quite possible to control 3 pedals with two feet
Yup, though the omega pedal setup is not ideal for this...
As to getting a chauffeur, can't afford one.
Got to own up, at your age, I only ever considered manuals. As you grow up get older, your style change, and the auto becomes more appealling. You find you let chavs win at the lights (mostly ::)).
As to driving skill, trust me, an auto needs much more skill to rebalance in a badly taken corner than a manual ;)
-
you'll realise it's quite possible to control 3 pedals with two feet
Yup, though the omega pedal setup is not ideal for this...
Agreed, it's 10 times easier to heel-toe in the BMW, likewise with my Impreza when I had it. The only other car I've driven that had a similarly poor pedal layout was a Mondeo TD... and the throttle response on that was so bad it was hardly worth the effort of trying to blip it ::)
As to getting a chauffeur, can't afford one.
LOL well you're half way there... all you need now is the invention of the automatic steering wheel, accelerator and braking system. You now have the most relaxing, but most boring drive ever imaginable :D
Got to own up, at your age, I only ever considered manuals. As you grow up get older, your style change, and the auto becomes more appealling. You find you let chavs win at the lights (mostly ::)).
I don't intend to grow old... party animal forever! Besides, my dad is fast approaching retirement age and he still enjoys his cars. He has never owned an automatic in his life and I doubt he's planning on starting any time soon, barring a medical issue or similar.
As to driving skill, trust me, an auto needs much more skill to rebalance in a badly taken corner than a manual ;)
Yes, in the same way that a Daewoo Matiz needs more skill to rebalance in a badly taken corner than a Porsche 911 Turbo ;). One is more suited to the job than the latter, which may make it more controllable but that also means you can get in and out quicker and with a better sense of achievement and exhilaration when you get it right. You're also less likely to get out of shape in the first place when you've got better control over the car. How I pined for a manual gearbox when I drove down the Pacific Coast Highway in the summer, now there is one road that doesn't fit the typical American stereotype, brilliant road. I still managed to have the tyres screaming for mercy even with the slushy, but it would have been much smoother, quicker and more satisfying with me driving the car rather than having a computer make all the wrong decisions :y
-
you'll realise it's quite possible to control 3 pedals with two feet
Yup, though the omega pedal setup is not ideal for this...
As to getting a chauffeur, can't afford one.
Got to own up, at your age, I only ever considered manuals. As you grow up get older, your style change, and the auto becomes more appealling. You find you let chavs win at the lights (mostly ::)).
As to driving skill, trust me, an auto needs much more skill to rebalance in a badly taken corner than a manual ;)
I used to be anti auto - but I thought they were OK with big engines.
But a knee which suffers from too much traffic jam usage swings it for me - went over a car at 20Y/O left knee was swolen.
Manuals for running around were OK but long runs set it off, so ending up with an auto was no problem
-
As to getting a chauffeur, can't afford one.
LOL well you're half way there... all you need now is the invention of the automatic steering wheel, accelerator and braking system. You now have the most relaxing, but most boring drive ever imaginable :D
Sounds like heaven ;D
All joking aside, I've done jobs that have imvolved massive amounts of driving, and driving to get somewhere simply rarely 'excites' me any more, so tend to not drive in an 'involving' manner much now, hence 95% of time preferring auto, 5% for those times I am fired up ;)
-
.., and he said he could go quicker overall on B-roads in the manual ....
If I wanted to go really quick on a B road I wouldn't be driving over a ton & a half of executive saloon, I buy some kind of 'proper' sports car.
-
Dave - thanks for the PM, have replied. :y
All,
Thanks for the comments. I agree that getting a good car outweighs the spec, but I'm not in a rush at the moment to buy so hopefully I can wait for the right one to come along. I side with Paul in a way because I enjoy being involved with driving, not just sitting back and being chauffered by the car but sometimes I think I'd just like to relax.
My present weekday car revs highly in all gears (I'm in fifth before I reach 45!!), making any trip fuel-hungry and it's only a 1.6i. I'm looking for a comfortable ride in a nice environment (ability to smooth potholed Dorset roads essential), that can happily sit on the motorway at 90 (leptons) without revving to 5,000 rpm, but also be reasonably useful along country lanes without swallowing the oil reserves of the middle east in the process. I'd be using it to drive to work (5 miles each way) and trips around the countryside and also to places likes Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, etc when the mood takes me. I don't have kids to ferry around and having an estate Omega as a 30 year old bloke scares me as I've already got a few grey hairs! ;D
I could just get a diesel and be done with it but I've heard that they are gutless until the turbo kicks in, and I do like to drive my cars properly and improve my driving, not just stagnate behind the wheel.
The manual Omega is nothing like your Honda will be. I consider the 3.0 V6 quite a peaky engine, but that's compared to my 4.4 V8 BMW engine. Compared to your Honda it will actually be very torquey -- I'm assuming your Honda is a VTEC that peaks around 8,000 RPM and has gearing to match. The gearing on the Omega is quite high, for example in 5th gear at 80 MPH it's pulling just over 3,000 RPM. Personally I consider it a little too high as I'd rather have better acceleration, but it's great for the motorway as you can get decent economy and there's no audible engine noise at all. I think the Omega would really suit a 6th gear to get better acceleration without compromising the cruising ability, but you can't have it all!
As for fuel ecomomy, I average around 24 MPG in my 3.0 MV6, and I don't hang about -- it regularly sees 6,000 RPM. There's a fair bit of motorway mileage in there too, much of which is done in 5th gear which brings it up a little. Mine is dual-fuel though which is makes it a little less economical (still loads cheaper though) so on petrol that should rise to between 26 and 28 MPG average -- pretty good for a 210 BHP car weighing as much as a small country! For comparison my BMW gets between 14 and 18 MPG depending on driving style and the kind of roads, so the Omega is a huge improvement over that. And that's got a 6-speed box too, so 6th gear is actually a little higher than the Omega meaning it revs quite low on the motorway.
My Honda is not a VTEC - I can't remember what it is but it's not that. Of the Concerto model range, it is the range topper which they put a Honda 16v engine in and a different gearbox. The ratios on the 'box are utterly moronic... unless you consider that, if I'm honest, it is a grandad's car and probably unlikely to go above 42 most of the time. Has good acceleration but in all gears you're around 3,000 rpm and fifth takes over from 45 and above. A trip along main roads and the motorway, which I do quite a bit to see my g/f, costs only about £5 less in the Honda than it does in the 4 litre TVR... which is less than ideal! It's down to the fact that to get any progress, the engine is revving at 4,000 and above most of the time on the motorway.
I really want a manual for the driving and fuel economy, but I just don't think I'll find one. Nationally, at the moment on Autotrader and other sites like that, there isn't a single car that meets most of my criteria.
I'm starting to think about a diesel as a more practical car and a way to get a manual, but almost all are lower specified than the petrol. I've even, god forbid, scratched my chin at some estates and that's really not good.
There must be a facelift manual Elite with leather out there somewhere!
-
.., and he said he could go quicker overall on B-roads in the manual ....
If I wanted to go really quick on a B road I wouldn't be driving over a ton & a half of executive saloon, I buy some kind of 'proper' sports car.
Yes, and in an ideal world I'd own 20 cars and 5 bikes, each specialised to exactly one type of driving/terrain, and to top it all off they'd be able to morph into each other so I could start out in the sports car, then morph into the sensible car when I need to pick up some passengers, then morph into a van when I want to pick up a sofa at Ikea ;)
I have a 1000cc sports bike for the times I want to go really quickly, but the reality is that sometimes I need to carry passengers, sometimes I need to put some large or heavy items in the back of the car, etc. Car selection isn't a binary choice between uber-sports and uber-sensible, often it's about compromise. I'm prepared to compromise a bit of handling to have a spacious 5 seats and 4 doors car. I can still drive it reasonably quickly and enjoy myself in the process, yes the guy in front in the Lotus Exige won't stay in view for long, but he's obviously chosen a different set of compromises.
The difference with getting a 2-seater sports car, and getting an automatic version of an otherwise quite enjoyable car, is that the automatic is a very poor compromise in my opinion -- it offers nothing in return. I don't get more seats, I can't carry more stuff, I don't get better fuel economy, it doesn't look any better. On the contrary, I lose performance, I lose control, I lose driving enjoyment, I lose reliability, and I lose fuel economy. Yes there may be less effort required, but as far as I'm concerned driving involves very little effort anyway -- it's not like you break into a sweat or collapse from exhaustion having to change gear! I get too little exercise as it is, and before anyone mentions it I do have an annual gym membership and attend regularly. Before I moved to Edinburgh I spent some time doing a 150 mile round trip each day, some of which was spent in crawling traffic on the M8 -- even then not once did I consider that I'd prefer an automatic! The most tiring part of journeys like that is mental -- it's so boring that I struggle to keep my concentration levels up. No changes to the car (other than full automation so I can go to sleep!) are going to help out there.
Personally I'd rather be driving a manual Vectra C than an automatic Omega, and if you know my opinion of the Vectra C then you'll realise just how bad that comparison is ;)
-
All joking aside, I've done jobs that have imvolved massive amounts of driving, and driving to get somewhere simply rarely 'excites' me any more, so tend to not drive in an 'involving' manner much now, hence 95% of time preferring auto, 5% for those times I am fired up ;)
I guess it depends on the individual. My dad used to do around 40,000 miles per year as part of his job, and he still had no interest in automatics. And I suspect he's even older than most of your guys ;). He doesn't do so many these days as he's mostly office based, but still a fair amount.
Apart from anything else, when it comes to older, high-mileage cars I'm very wary of automatics as it tends to be a case of "when" rather than "if" the gearbox will break. With a decent manual the only thing that usually goes is the clutch, and you can usually detect that starting to go long before it gets bad, and it's a cheap and easy to change (at least on RWD cars). Mine was changed at around 165,000 miles at a cost of £150 inc labour using a genuine VX kit and I'm confident of my transmission lasting me another 165,000 miles -- not so sure about the engine ;). I sold my Audi runaround about a year ago and that had 207,000 miles on it with the original clutch! If it were an auto it would probably be on the third gearbox :D
-
My Honda is not a VTEC - I can't remember what it is but it's not that. Of the Concerto model range, it is the range topper which they put a Honda 16v engine in and a different gearbox. The ratios on the 'box are utterly moronic... unless you consider that, if I'm honest, it is a grandad's car and probably unlikely to go above 42 most of the time. Has good acceleration but in all gears you're around 3,000 rpm and fifth takes over from 45 and above. A trip along main roads and the motorway, which I do quite a bit to see my g/f, costs only about £5 less in the Honda than it does in the 4 litre TVR... which is less than ideal! It's down to the fact that to get any progress, the engine is revving at 4,000 and above most of the time on the motorway.
I really want a manual for the driving and fuel economy, but I just don't think I'll find one. Nationally, at the moment on Autotrader and other sites like that, there isn't a single car that meets most of my criteria.
I'm starting to think about a diesel as a more practical car and a way to get a manual, but almost all are lower specified than the petrol. I've even, god forbid, scratched my chin at some estates and that's really not good.
There must be a facelift manual Elite with leather out there somewhere!
Wow that's pretty low geared. I had an Audi that I used as a runaround up until about a year ago, it was super reliable but it was too low geared for my liking, pulling around 3,400 RPM at 70 MPH. It was great for round town though, the low gearing made up for the rather gutless 2.0 8v engine :)
As for diesels, you should be able to find a 2.2 DTi Elite facelift if you look around -- it was basically the replacement for the 2.5 TD and was only fitted with a manual gearbox. Trying to find manual petrol Elites is very difficult, I know someone who has one but they're rare. You may be better off looking for a 2.6 MV6, personally I prefer the MV6 as you get better seats (not leather as standard but they're much better shaped than the sofa type seats in the Elite), better suspension, nicer wheels, nicer interior trim (aluminium look instead of fake wood) and most of the worthwhile features of the Elite. The only things I missed were the cruise control and electrochromatic rear view mirror, both of which are cheap and easy retro-fits. It depends how desperate you are for leather, as leather MV6s are rare, and the sports leather seats are very desirable in the used market as they're sculpted like the cloth MV6 seats -- much nicer than the Elite leather.
-
Wow that's pretty low geared. I had an Audi that I used as a runaround up until about a year ago, it was super reliable but it was too low geared for my liking, pulling around 3,400 RPM at 70 MPH. It was great for round town though, the low gearing made up for the rather gutless 2.0 8v engine :)
As for diesels, you should be able to find a 2.2 DTi Elite facelift if you look around -- it was basically the replacement for the 2.5 TD and was only fitted with a manual gearbox. Trying to find manual petrol Elites is very difficult, I know someone who has one but they're rare. You may be better off looking for a 2.6 MV6, personally I prefer the MV6 as you get better seats (not leather as standard but they're much better shaped than the sofa type seats in the Elite), better suspension, nicer wheels, nicer interior trim (aluminium look instead of fake wood) and most of the worthwhile features of the Elite. The only things I missed were the cruise control and electrochromatic rear view mirror, both of which are cheap and easy retro-fits. It depends how desperate you are for leather, as leather MV6s are rare, and the sports leather seats are very desirable in the used market as they're sculpted like the cloth MV6 seats -- much nicer than the Elite leather.
There's a couple of Elite DTis that I have come across but, being diesel, I have passed over them. I have heard the diesels are gutless until the turbo kicks in.
There are a few 2.6 MV6s about but all are auto. When you say better suspension, do you mean stiffer? I am looking for a car that handles reasonably well but offers a nice soft ride over Dorset's utterly crap roads.
I prefer the Elite wheels to the MV6.
I have leather at the moment in my Honda, and in the TVR. I've never liked cloth interiors as they look cheap to me, seem to wear more and are more difficult to keep looking their best. I could have cloth if I had a manual gearbox. Cloth in an auto - no thanks.
What does an MV6 lack over an Elite besides the mirror and cruise?
-
Personally I'd rather be driving a manual Vectra C than an automatic Omega, and if you know my opinion of the Vectra C then you'll realise just how bad that comparison is ;)
Have you tried both?
-
I found in the fecelift models, CD spec and below was disappointing.
CDX onwards is where the toys all kicked in. Of course, you'll pay a bit more for an Elite over a CDX, but you should get leather (based on standard factory spec), rear blind (removed from 52plate onwards), sat nav and GID (CID if lucky) screen, heated rear seats, automatic occupancy front seat detection (for passenger air bag) and sportier alloys.
That said, if you get a CDX with leather, do you really use the other toys much anyway.
I have found the sat nav a bit lacking in places and prefer Tomtoms. Shame you can't build in a Tomtom so that it's theft protected.
As for maunal/auto... I drive 3.2s in both formats day to day and prefer the auto hands down.
I find the manual gearbox sloppy, uninspiring but very little improvement in accelaration or top speed. Yes, the auto is thirstier, but using the kickdown 3,2,1 with sports mode correctly, I can select the correct gear to maintain high revs when taking corners, roundabouts, etc through the entire speed range.
I'm willing to bet my mortgage that you will not be able to source a 51 plate onwards in manual with elite specification with below 80k mileage. You may find MV6 equivalent, but as Theboy stated, in facelifts, the spec is very lack lustre.
Good luck in your hunting.....
-
As for diesels, you should be able to find a 2.2 DTi Elite facelift if you look around -- it was basically the replacement for the 2.5 TD and was only fitted with a manual gearbox. Trying to find manual petrol Elites is very difficult, I know someone who has one but they're rare. You may be better off looking for a 2.6 MV6, personally I prefer the MV6 as you get better seats (not leather as standard but they're much better shaped than the sofa type seats in the Elite), better suspension, nicer wheels, nicer interior trim (aluminium look instead of fake wood) and most of the worthwhile features of the Elite. The only things I missed were the cruise control and electrochromatic rear view mirror, both of which are cheap and easy retro-fits. It depends how desperate you are for leather, as leather MV6s are rare, and the sports leather seats are very desirable in the used market as they're sculpted like the cloth MV6 seats -- much nicer than the Elite leather.
There's a couple of Elite DTis that I have come across but, being diesel, I have passed over them. I have heard the diesels are gutless until the turbo kicks in.
There are a few 2.6 MV6s about but all are auto. When you say better suspension, do you mean stiffer? I am looking for a car that handles reasonably well but offers a nice soft ride over Dorset's utterly crap roads.
I prefer the Elite wheels to the MV6.
I have leather at the moment in my Honda, and in the TVR. I've never liked cloth interiors as they look cheap to me, seem to wear more and are more difficult to keep looking their best. I could have cloth if I had a manual gearbox. Cloth in an auto - no thanks.
What does an MV6 lack over an Elite besides the mirror and cruise?
PM received :y
Right! In defense of the diesel (of which we have two), it is not slow! One of ours spends most of its time towing a trailer for which, it is perfect, pulls well, cruises well and munches the miles. Put simply, you drive it differently. If you want economy under normal driving, you change gear below 3000rpm so the turbo doesn't have much chance to kick in. If you want it to go fast, rev it and it will fly all the way up to over 100mph (officer ;) ) just like any other omega. In fact, the 2.2DTi has the SAME torque figure as the 3.2 V6.
As mentioned, I too don't think the omega is the best car for throwing round country roads. It's still very stable at high speeds. If i'm honest, the big V6 does suit the character and nature of the car much better but for some people, as was being discussed earlier, there is a compromise to be made. Diesel does this by returning 46-48 mpg, long service intervals and reliable mechanics. Yes, they are noisy from startup (noisier even that most modern diesels) but that should quieten down nicely after about 20 mins driving. 'M- TEK Performance' user on here does a power upgrade for the diesel to take it up to 140bhp. (I will let you know 8-))
Spec wise leather is only standard on 3.2 Elite. 2.6 & 2.2DTi, leather was OPTIONAL. Paul, the later Elite wheels are the identical 'star' shape to the later MV6 :y
MV6 is stiffer suspension, Elite is self levelling. MV6 has a few things lacking.
Mr Mickey, you say you're willing to bet your mortgage...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2001-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-ELITE-2-5v6-24v-A1-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ220151607837QQihZ012QQcategoryZ9858QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Very close! Do I get a free house when 'the one' is found!?!?! ;D I've seen quite a few manual 2.6 Elites as well so you might be regretting saying that!