Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 12:22:31

Title: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 12:22:31
Hi Guys,

Bit of an emergency cracking off at the moment.  My V6 had a belt and tentioners changed at 44k and now it’s on 72k, so I am a few miles off a new belt for now.  I have a problem which I am looking into at the moment and I need to check the valve timing, so today I am stripping it down to check, I also have MDTM's cam timing kit to hand.

Now when I rotate the crank round I noticed that the tentioner does not move at all, it stays static in one position, the little notches are lined up and do not move.  Is this something I need to worry about at all?  If so I will cut the SH*T and install a new camblet kit - it's not worth the trouble...

Any help would be super as I’m stalled on the drive at the moment.

Regards
Title: Re: V6 cam change time...
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2007, 12:27:00
Its so close to needing replacement, I wouldn't bugger about tbh....
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 12:27:38
HMMM im thinking along the same lines...  shame Vx are closed  :'(
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 13:49:32
Ooops - Looks like the tentioner wasn't doing its job and all four cams were 1 tooth retarded...

I'm going to be thanking my lucky start tonight that the unspeakable didn't happen.  :o  Needless to say I am installing full GM cam kit tomorrow...

This might explain my slight lack in performance and rattle noise.




Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2007, 13:58:49
Quote
Ooops - Looks like the tentioner wasn't doing its job and all four cams were 1 tooth retarded...

I'm going to be thanking my lucky start tonight that the unspeakable didn't happen.  :o  Needless to say I am installing full GM cam kit tomorrow...

This might explain my slight lack in performance and rattle noise.




I lucky escape.

Wonder if it had the full kit at 44k?
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 14:16:47
Not too sure.  I have just checked my belt assy against the CAM DVD and and in the DVD Mark is clearly working on two cam adjusters, where i only have one???

In the DVD Mark has one adjuster for cams 1-2 and anotehr adjuster to the right which adjust 3-4.  I only have one adjuster for 1-2 and just a plain idler for 3-4, there isn't a 30mm head for me to adjust...?  Now i am confused.

MY car is a 52plate 2.6, does my car have a different setup at all?  as Mark's car looks like a 2.5.

Also, i noticed that there are more notches on the cam sprockets, how can i be sure i have the right markings?

Cheers
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2007, 14:27:29
Later cars don't have the lower adjuster.  Different procedure for fitting one of them (slightly).

By the notch is a number, indicating which cam that notch is for.
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 14:47:06
oh i see, so how can the banks be timed then with only one?

I am trying to get the locks in place but just can't seem to bring it round.  The crank lock is on the water pump and all i need to do is lock the cams, ready for the camkit install tomorrow.  The notches for 1/2 are numbered as you say, but 3 and 4 have two numbers.  3 and 4 have 3/4 on bother sprockets, i take it they are both the same, hence 3/4?

Would i be ok if i took the belt of and moved the cams a few deg's by hand?  as i can't see any other way of getting the locks on.

Cheers TB

Marc
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 15:18:38
I think i now have things under control...

I did remove the belt in the end, starting from 1+2, then... boing, they spun anti-clockwise a 1/4 turn.  Luckily they were marked with tippex so i knew exactly which marking i needed to line up with the alighnment tool.  So now i have all four sprockets locked in place with the locking tool...  8-)

I noticed that the previous cam belt installer had used yellow paint on the sprockets to do the timing  >:(  What a bunch of cowboys!

At least now i can put this right...
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 18:44:29
Hi Guys,

Now i have the cams and crank all locked up ready for a new GM cambelt kit tomorrow, i wonder if someone could verify which kit i need for a 2.6 52 plate?

Cheers
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: CaptainZok on 07 October 2007, 18:54:21
Kit is dependant on your engine number.
To 08300418 you need 93188674 £143 retail £128.70 trade £89.08 TC
08300419 to 08578511 its 9201887 £118.00 retail £106.20 trade £89.08 TC
08578512 onwards its 93172354 £121.00 retail £106.20 trade £89.08 TC
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 19:33:56
Quote
Kit is dependant on your engine number.
To 08300418 you need 93188674 £143 retail £128.70 trade £89.08 TC
08300419 to 08578511 its 9201887 £118.00 retail £106.20 trade £89.08 TC
08578512 onwards its 93172354 £121.00 retail £106.20 trade £89.08 TC


Crikey, the only number i can find look nothing like them.  Sorry to sound like a numpty, but where on earth can i find my number?

Cheers
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: CaptainZok on 07 October 2007, 19:36:23
It will be on your V5 assuming the engine hasn't been changed.
It's also printed on the barcode sticker on the cambelt cover unless this has fallen off.
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 19:39:20
Cheers CZ - You're a star!  :y

I can't (and don't) trust the Vaxhall stealers to supply me with the right kit and being as my car is off the road now i can't take any chances... time is money!

Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: CaptainZok on 07 October 2007, 19:41:56
Well those p/n are from the trade club book so its direct from Vx.
You found your engine no then.
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 19:57:50
I'll take a peek later tonight when i return home.  The cam cover had no stickers on it, so i'm going to take it from the V5.

Cheers
Marc
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: ffcgary1 on 07 October 2007, 20:41:39
IT IS STAMPED OM THE ENGINE BLOCK NEXT TO THE OIL FILTER ON A FLAT SURFACE.
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 21:52:02
Quote
Kit is dependant on your engine number.
To 08300418 you need 93188674 £143 retail £128.70 trade £89.08 TC
08300419 to 08578511 its 9201887 £118.00 retail £106.20 trade £89.08 TC
08578512 onwards its 93172354 £121.00 retail £106.20 trade £89.08 TC

Mine is 0867**** so i'll be needing the latest (93172354)

Thanks for the info C-Zok!
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: maria on 07 October 2007, 21:52:59
It's actually parallel with the gearbox bellhousing, on the engine block...

It's stamped in vertically..
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 21:55:16
Quote
Later cars don't have the lower adjuster.  Different procedure for fitting one of them (slightly).

By the notch is a number, indicating which cam that notch is for.

How does the install differ on a 2.6?  Anything major i need to be aware of?  as it stands on my dad's drive now it has all cams and crank locked and ready for belt kit.

Cheers
M
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2007, 21:59:57
Quote
Quote
Later cars don't have the lower adjuster.  Different procedure for fitting one of them (slightly).

By the notch is a number, indicating which cam that notch is for.

How does the install differ on a 2.6?  Anything major i need to be aware of?  as it stands on my dad's drive now it has all cams and crank locked and ready for belt kit.

Cheers
M
There is something about winding back to 10 degrees BTDC...  ...Kevin Wood has done one recently...
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: maria on 07 October 2007, 22:01:43
Quote
Quote
Quote
Later cars don't have the lower adjuster.  Different procedure for fitting one of them (slightly).

By the notch is a number, indicating which cam that notch is for.

How does the install differ on a 2.6?  Anything major i need to be aware of?  as it stands on my dad's drive now it has all cams and crank locked and ready for belt kit.

Cheers
M
There is something about winding back to 10 degrees BTDC...  ...Kevin Wood has done one recently...

On Bob dents cambelt, just fitted the kit as per normal, cranked by hand, and the 2-4-6 bank was timed up perfectly :)

Quick tweak on the 1-3-5 bank, and job done.

Makes it a lot easier :y
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 22:11:07
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Later cars don't have the lower adjuster.  Different procedure for fitting one of them (slightly).

By the notch is a number, indicating which cam that notch is for.

How does the install differ on a 2.6?  Anything major i need to be aware of?  as it stands on my dad's drive now it has all cams and crank locked and ready for belt kit.

Cheers
M
There is something about winding back to 10 degrees BTDC...  ...Kevin Wood has done one recently...

On Bob dents cambelt, just fitted the kit as per normal, cranked by hand, and the 2-4-6 bank was timed up perfectly :)

Quick tweak on the 1-3-5 bank, and job done.

Makes it a lot easier :y

Maria/TB...

I see that makes sense!  Quite a lot of sense!  So banks 3/4 can never be out from teh crank then, it's only 1/2 that needs the timing.

I take it this was a quick tweak by GM to save time and money.

Thanks guys and gals  :y
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: maria on 07 October 2007, 22:15:31
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Later cars don't have the lower adjuster.  Different procedure for fitting one of them (slightly).

By the notch is a number, indicating which cam that notch is for.

How does the install differ on a 2.6?  Anything major i need to be aware of?  as it stands on my dad's drive now it has all cams and crank locked and ready for belt kit.

Cheers
M
There is something about winding back to 10 degrees BTDC...  ...Kevin Wood has done one recently...

On Bob dents cambelt, just fitted the kit as per normal, cranked by hand, and the 2-4-6 bank was timed up perfectly :)

Quick tweak on the 1-3-5 bank, and job done.

Makes it a lot easier :y

Maria/TB...

I see that makes sense!  Quite a lot of sense!  So banks 3/4 can never be out from teh crank then, it's only 1/2 that needs the timing.

I take it this was a quick tweak by GM to save time and money.

Thanks guys and gals  :y

Either that, or we just got lucky  ;D

Done a couple of these later ones now, never seems to cause a problem.

If there are no markings on the belt, leaving an extra tooth than you would normally between the crank and tensioner works well for me = stops the cams from being a tooth out after the first rotation.

But.. that's personal opinion only, not to be relied upon ;D
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: JasonH on 07 October 2007, 22:17:25
On my 2.5 facelift you have to thread the belt a bit differently just to get it on. If I can remember I had to loosely put it round the crank 1 tooth out and fit it round the idlers working anti-clockwise as you look at the engine. The belt went round the tensioner last then you could correct the belt position on the crank.
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: maria on 07 October 2007, 22:19:14
Quote
On my 2.5 facelift you have to thread the belt a bit differently just to get it on. If I can remember I had to loosely put it round the crank 1 tooth out and fit it round the idlers working anti-clockwise as you look at the engine. The belt went round the tensioner last then you could correct the belt position on the crank.

Seems a bit complicated, but as I say, each to their own.

I start at the crank, then up to the tensioner, around the 1-3-5 bank, then around the top idler, over the 2-4-6 bank, and then I fit the lower idler...while holding the belt back..
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: A380 Elite on 07 October 2007, 22:23:50
Me thinks, Maria will be teaching me how to.

See you very Soon.
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: maria on 07 October 2007, 22:25:51
Quote
Me thinks, Maria will be teaching me how to.

See you very Soon.

Yes, on the 18th October ;) ;D
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: JasonH on 07 October 2007, 22:33:02
Maria - good tip. I was working from the Vx college V6 manual......
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 07 October 2007, 22:45:28
Here is a couple of pics from earlier today.  I'm not too sure how the timing could be out like this on a 2.6, maybe the crank jumped a tooth?

(CAMS 1+2)
(http://s164763218.websitehome.co.uk/omega/12.JPG)


(CAMS 3+4)
(http://s164763218.websitehome.co.uk/omega/34.JPG)


The reason i stripped down to investigate was slight loss in power (felt like it was holding back) and MPG wasn't the best either.  I also noticed that the injector timings between banks were different too.  Hopefully a new and correctly installed kit will make things a whole lot better.

Also i noticed that the tentioner did not load/unload while manually cranking round with the old belt in place, i take it that this is wrong?  It seems to be springy while in the vice, but not while it was on the car...
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 October 2007, 06:14:15
Looks like it's time for a belt change!

It will run better when it's done properly.
Title: Re: V6 cam change time... HELP!!!!
Post by: JasonH on 08 October 2007, 15:59:53
My tensioner definitely moves as you crank the engine round.