Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: omegalord on 29 September 2007, 18:28:14
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How hard exactly is it to take the engine out?
I did the rocker gaskets myself and found it pretty straight forward. A bit daunting at first as i had never done anything that involving but did it and it started first turn after.
Just thinking of buying another one with a knackered engine (off ebay if i can spy one) and taking the engine out to put a new one in fron vauxhall (£1600 exchange) , so i can pretty much go to to wn on the car then.
Matt ;)
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Over 100 lookers and not a reply?
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10 lookers and not a reply?
Come on regulars!
Depends what tools you have available to you, and whether you'd be doing the work inside a nice warm garage or out in the street. A hoist would come in handy, but engine removal isn't too difficult if you're methodical. It's been a long time since I've done anything that involved.
I'd have to think long & hard before I spent £1600 on an engine though. I'd more likely buy another car for it's engine or at least get A N Other engine.
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It would be in a nice warm garage with a 4 post lift.
I want to get a brand new engine so would have to pay the £1600 from vauxhall
is it just a case of taking of the ancilleries, gearbox and then engine mounts?
matt
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Having done it twice in the last couple of months (on tractor engine, not V6), once with disconnecting gearbox, once with leave gearbox attached with engine and lifting out with engine, I would recommend the later.
No difficult with a good hoist. The 2nd time, LFF64 and I started removal from scratch at around 11:30ish, and had the engine (and box) remounted by dark (not reconnecting ancillaries) - early Sept so dark around 8:30 - 9:00
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It would be in a nice warm garage with a 4 post lift.
I want to get a brand new engine so would have to pay the £1600 from vauxhall
is it just a case of taking of the ancilleries, gearbox and then engine mounts?
matt
I've never looked that carefully but I'd say so. If I had a 4 post lift though I think I'd be looking at leaving the engine connected to the lower cross member, suspension etc and lift the car up off it. I would think that's how Vauxhall put it all in, in the first place.
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Having done it twice in the last couple of months (on tractor engine, not V6), once with disconnecting gearbox, once with leave gearbox attached with engine and lifting out with engine, I would recommend the later.
No difficult with a good hoist. The 2nd time, LFF64 and I started removal from scratch at around 11:30ish, and had the engine (and box) remounted by dark (not reconnecting ancillaries) - early Sept so dark around 8:30 - 9:00
So you started at 11:30 , took it out , did whatever work you did and had it back in and mounts secured before dark?
Matt
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Having done it twice in the last couple of months (on tractor engine, not V6), once with disconnecting gearbox, once with leave gearbox attached with engine and lifting out with engine, I would recommend the later.
No difficult with a good hoist. The 2nd time, LFF64 and I started removal from scratch at around 11:30ish, and had the engine (and box) remounted by dark (not reconnecting ancillaries) - early Sept so dark around 8:30 - 9:00
So you started at 11:30 , took it out , did whatever work you did and had it back in and mounts secured before dark?
Matt
Didn't do any work to it - see the saga of Project Tractor Engine Swap (do a search) - lifted out old engine/box, bolted gearbox on to spare engine, put spare engine back in.
Yes, started at 11:30am, replacement engine back in by dark (but still 3-4hrs work putting all ancillaries back on).
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I might have a go then , whats the worst that can happen? , i'll just have to bombard the forum with questions ;D
So i leave all the brake master cylinder in, radiator etc etc , just disconnect stuff like the loom, fuel lines etc
Matt
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I might have a go then , whats the worst that can happen? , i'll just have to bombard the forum with questions ;D
So i leave all the brake master cylinder in, radiator etc etc , just disconnect stuff like the loom, fuel lines etc
Matt
On tractor, the rad, the condensor, compressor, pas, airbox, alternator etc all had to come off, presumably v6 will be along same lines...
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I have seen services do that taking the engine from down (they say its more simple) but they have many equipments..Anyway not a straightforward job..(at least for me)
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refitted one on tues complete with box ! did cam belt and cam covers and cleaned breathers out and jizered the engine and bay started at 10am all back in bolted up and water in just front pipes left to do stopped for breakfast and tea finished 8.30 pm in a garage in my dads back yard on axle stands and good engine hiost !!!! :y
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Any nightmares i should encounter then?
Matt
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Any nightmares i should encounter then?
Matt
nothing insurmountable. The exhaust can sometimes be a pig on the V6...
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refitted one on tues complete with box ! did cam belt and cam covers and cleaned breathers out and jizered the engine and bay started at 10am all back in bolted up and water in just front pipes left to do stopped for breakfast and tea finished 8.30 pm in a garage in my dads back yard on axle stands and good engine hiost !!!! :y
What things didnt you have to take out of the engine bay? , eg master cylinder , rad
Matt
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A basic engine removal isn't that major. Vx say it's necessary to do the passenger side manifold gasket.
You see loads of complete engines and gearboxes on Ebay - from those you can see what to leave on. Basically disconnect all pipes and wires to the engine and lift out.
On another forum a chap called J Seaman removed and repaired a V6 engine before putting it back in. Pictures all the way.
If you buy a new engine from Vx it won't have any ancilliaries so the job will be bigger because everything will have to be swapped off the original engine (e.g. exhaust manifolds, alternator, PAS pump, etc.).
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One thing I can add if this will be the first time
dont start laugh :)
for complicated devices (electronic) generally I draw one schema
and label sticky numbers for connections,sockets,cables in order of disassembly before start up.
Really works well if you are not experienced..(My mechanic friends laugh me when they see my style of work
but when they make mistakes -cause they forgot the original connection I become the last one who laugh)
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One thing I can add if this will be the first time
dont start laugh :)
for complicated devices (electronic) generally I draw one schema
and label sticky numbers for connections,sockets,cables in order of disassembly before start up.
Really works well if you are not experienced..(My mechanic friends laugh me when they see my style of work
but when they make mistakes -cause they forgot the original connection I become the last one who laugh)
I take a few pictures with digi camera...
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yep you are more practical :) but I'm an old man..
ps: mega have very similiar cables,pipes still I think labeling is not bad idea..
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yep you are more practical :) but I'm an old man..
ps: mega have very similiar cables,pipes still I think labeling is not bad idea..
Ah, but I have a Tech2, and that can say "You prat, you have these 2 round the wrong way"....::)
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yep you are more practical :) but I'm an old man..
ps: mega have very similiar cables,pipes still I think labeling is not bad idea..
Ah, but I have a Tech2, and that can say "You prat, you have these 2 round the wrong way"....::)
I dont have Tech 2 ...
But last time the mechanic (also have tech 2 and really experienced mechanic) mess up the servo pipes.. ;D
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Omegalord ;) only my 2 peneth, I'm sure all the replies are/is sound advice, I ain't no mechanic/thechy, but, if your confident, then go for it.
If you do get stuck, as you already know, the members/admin/help on here will get you through any hard times, all the best and good luck. :y
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I think you'd be hard pressed to find an Omega that would benefit from a new engine TBH. Apart from the odd basket case the worst you see are cam belt failures and this can be fixed by changing the heads in-car. The rest of the car would have to be mint to make it even worth considering IMHO.
If you want an as-new engine it'd be much more cost effective to find one that's in reasonable condition and give it a freshen up with some new bearings, rings and a hone and lap the valves in. I doubt you'd get your money back from a new engine and I doubt you'd have a significantly inferior car if you did the above.
Kevin
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dont know if a new engine comes with new wiring and sensors.But if those will be transferred from the old one this will be a minus..
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dont know if a new engine comes with new wiring and sensors.But if those will be transferred from the old one this will be a minus..
No, it won't
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dont know if a new engine comes with new wiring and sensors.But if those will be transferred from the old one this will be a minus..
No, it won't
Bare block and heads is all you get off them... :y
I wonder if they include cams and rocker covers?
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dont know if a new engine comes with new wiring and sensors.But if those will be transferred from the old one this will be a minus..
No, it won't
Bare block and heads is all you get off them... :y
I wonder if they include cams and rocker covers?
I would imagine so. Purely from a point of view of warranty (supplied all timed-up with a new cam belt) and so muck doesn't get in them during storage.
But they're sold on the assumption that it's the engine (block, heads) and only the engine that needs to be replaced so no ancillaries. They may require an engine in exchange too.
Kevin
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dont know if a new engine comes with new wiring and sensors.But if those will be transferred from the old one this will be a minus..
No, it won't
Bare block and heads is all you get off them... :y
I wonder if they include cams and rocker covers?
clever marketing ..so you need to buy every item seperate and spend a fortune..
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dont know if a new engine comes with new wiring and sensors.But if those will be transferred from the old one this will be a minus..
No, it won't
Bare block and heads is all you get off them... :y
I wonder if they include cams and rocker covers?
I would imagine so. Purely from a point of view of warranty (supplied all timed-up with a new cam belt) and so muck doesn't get in them during storage.
But they're sold on the assumption that it's the engine (block, heads) and only the engine that needs to be replaced so no ancillaries. They may require an engine in exchange too.
Kevin
The VX-Pro stuff is done on an exchange basis
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Thanks for all the replies. I am only considering it as i want to go to town on a late mv6 manual, so if i spent a few thousand on it i wouldnt be worried as the car would cost me a few thousand less than a bmw for instance.
It would be worth it for me because i know then if everything else major is replaced it should last me a long time. And eventually omegas will become rare (going by the amount on ebay for spares)
Matt :)
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For £1.6k you could rebuild a lump with plenty of uprated parts. Thats what I'd do.
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For £1.6k you could rebuild a lump with plenty of uprated parts. Thats what I'd do.
Me too. You could go to town with that sort of budget, have fun rebuilding it, and you'd keep the original engine number if that's important. You probably wouldn't need to, though, because the engine is far from the weakest link on a modern car.
However, if I were after a late, mint manual MV6 I would be inclined to build myself a 3.2 manual MV6, and that might involve an engine change from a 2.6 I guess.
Kevin
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It is a mint late mv6 manual i am after. So what i might do is take all your advice and take the engine out and rebuild it with new parts. £1600 on an engine i already have would turn out a batter spec than a new block from vauxhall.
Its a shame these engines dont turbo well (so ive been told) , as that would be brilliant.
And i cantsee anywhere that a supercharger could fit under the bonnet so i guess that rules that out.
Matt :)
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kwZiKZQeSWo :y
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lol@ronaldmcburgers comment 2 weeks ago. He said use a decent car instead of the multi plagued omega. hahaha
Is it the same ronaldmcburger who is a member here?
;D ;D ;D
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lol@ronaldmcburgers comment 2 weeks ago. He said use a decent car instead of the multi plagued omega. hahaha
Is it the same ronaldmcburger who is a member here?
;D ;D ;D
Could there be any other?
Kevin
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Please do not take this the wrong way but the replacement of the engine in a car which has covered XXX miles still leaves a car with XXX miles and with a new engine....
Gearbox still XXX miles as is the diff, suspension, brakes and assorted engine auxiliaries/sensors/cooling etc. And thats not including body/chassis rot after XXX unknown wet/salty miles.....
I applaud your attempt but, truth be told, exchanging the heart does not mean that the brain, legs and skeleton and nervous system of your donor could cope with the replacement ......
Sayeth one who is looking for a potentially new (real) heart..... :-X
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Im not going to just change the engine. That would be silly. Im going to change all major parts (suspension, brakes, steering, master cylinder etc
Im not going to do it all in 1 go , ill just keep throwing £1000 every month on it until its in mint condition and had all major parts replaced.
Should be good then
Matt :)
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It depends on the mileage you end up with but, TBH, all the mechanicals will be good for getting on for 200k if looked after well so if I were in your position I would concentrate on getting it cosmetically perfect and not worry about replacing mechanical parts that are fine.
I think that will give you a more valuable car with respect to re-sale value if the mechanicals can be seen to be original (although I appreciate re-sale is not your goal).
Just my 10p worth.
To continue Hotel21's analogy changing a heart is major surgery and you wouldn't want to go through with it just as a precaution. You need some symptons followed by diagnosis to ensure all other avenues have been covered beforehand.
Kevin
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Hi,
After watching that youtube video, is it me or does it not seem that much faster if at all than a normal omega?
Is turbocharging more effective on the omega engine or is it just because hes only using 4 psi?
Matt
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(talking about V6)
For turbocharge routines the compression ratio on omega is high and must be dropped ..Also have cooling problems..
I read somewhere else supercharging is better and dont have turbo lag and other problems..
Soon someone with these experiences will give more detail..
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Omegatoy briefly had an Omega 3l turbo, I think it was Courtney but could be wrong...
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Omegatoy briefly had an Omega 3l turbo, I think it was Courtney but could be wrong...
THat was the Lotus Carlton transplant wasn't it?
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Courtney Turbo did a twin turbo modification for the RUC, if it's a V6 then i'd guess it would be one of these.
If your a member of ABS, there's a pic of one posted by James Waddington entitled 'Dad's new Wagon' in the gallery section.
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Omegatoy briefly had an Omega 3l turbo, I think it was Courtney but could be wrong...
THat was the Lotus Carlton transplant wasn't it?
No, The LC Omega was ages ago.
The turbo Omega was earlier this year.
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Unless you reduce the compression ratio you'll run into problems with either a turbo or a supercharger with more than a couple of PSI so it probably doesn't make a massive difference in performance (depends who set it all up, too, and if he knows his stuff). Not sure I saw a chargecooler / intercooler in that setup either, and hot induction air will undo a lot of the benefits.
Kevin
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Yeah, i didnt see one either. Could be low down by the rad though.
Its a shame the v6 isnt a tuneable engine. Then again there are a few alternatives for not silly money...
New Vectra vxr (2.8 v6 tt)
Z20let (too low on torque low down though)
Matt
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Right...
Going to tackle the engine out on monday.
As i need a new cambelt kit, HBV valve needs doing, and manifold gaskets are blowing slightly , more so on passenger side.
So..... TB , do i just keep ther gearbox attatched and disconnect the prop from the box?
Matt
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Ah-Ha! Watch this space 8-)
Kevin
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lol , yeah watch it , as no doubt will be bombarded with q's
First one : To take the engine out with the gearbox how do i disconnect the prop?
Matt
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Yeah, i didnt see one either. Could be low down by the rad though.
Its a shame the v6 isnt a tuneable engine. Then again there are a few alternatives for not silly money...
New Vectra vxr (2.8 v6 tt)
Z20let (too low on torque low down though)
Matt
V6 is tuneable but for that cost you can buy better cars..
vxr 2.8 v6 is really a good car..Nearly same level with Impreza sti's.. Maintenance will be lower than japanese cars also..
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I've down if with gearbox attached and gearbox left in. Taking gearbox out with engine was far easier. Mine was an auto, so with a manual, you'll have to remove gearstick.
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I'd be inclined to find a late retail 3.2 MV6 and fit a manual gearbox with new clutch kit. The engine will give you little trouble for many miles (change the crank sensor, timing belt kit and cam gaskets for piece of mind if you want), the clutch will last 150k+ and the gearbox will probably out-last the car. Plus all the suspension and other components will be in pretty good nick, maybe fit new (uprated) dampers if you're really fussy. I'd then look into fitting stuff like cruise and sports leather, and you'll have a cracking, and rare, car -- much better end result than simply lashing out £1600 + fitting effort on a new engine for an older model.