Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: eomega on 30 December 2007, 14:30:07
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hi all im new to the forum and not an omega owner yet but am thinkin about a 98/99 diesel (manual),had a look around here but it seems mostly petrol owners . i would be interested to hear about views on the 2.2 versus the 2.5 am i right in sayin that from 99 on timing chain is used instead of belt on the diesels, i would be greatful for any advice or tips. :y
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The 2.5TD (BMW engine) has a timing chain
IW
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from 1994-2000 - A BMW sourced 2.5 Straight 6 diesel was used in Omega's, ALL of them were chain driven.
it was de-tuned for Vauxhall so chipping is a good idea. Manual is best.
2.5's wreck the Autos, to much torque. An Ar35 box is needed instead of AR25.
2000 onwards Vauxhalls own 2.2 DTi (4pot) replaced the BMW 2.5, its generally conisdered a slightly weaker engine and not as smooth, but can be tuned to quick out quite a lot of torque :y
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2000 onwards Vauxhalls own 2.2 DTi (4pot) replaced the BMW 2.5, its generally conisdered a slightly weaker engine and not as smooth, but can be tuned to quick out quite a lot of torque :y
Definately a stronger engine....not sure its possible to get weeker than the BMW power plant.
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2000 onwards Vauxhalls own 2.2 DTi (4pot) replaced the BMW 2.5, its generally conisdered a slightly weaker engine and not as smooth, but can be tuned to quick out quite a lot of torque :y
Definately a stronger engine....not sure its possible to get weeker than the BMW power plant.
I think its cause they are de-tuned for Vx, seen many 5 series 2.5 tractors on eBay in inter-sella miles 300k +
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did the 2.2dti not come out in 98? got this off honest john
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Three year warranty from October 2000. 2.5 litre 6 cylinder BMW diesel supplemented, then replaced by GM's own 2.0 and 2.2DTi four cylinder chain cam diesels from January 1998.
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2000 onwards Vauxhalls own 2.2 DTi (4pot) replaced the BMW 2.5, its generally conisdered a slightly weaker engine and not as smooth, but can be tuned to quick out quite a lot of torque :y
Definately a stronger engine....not sure its possible to get weeker than the BMW power plant.
Depends on what you mean by weak!
If you mean power, yes they are de-tuned from the standard BMW spec, but if you mean durability, I suspect that the BMW engine will outlast the VX motor. They are known to last for 300K + miles, although rumour has it that they eat Auto boxes because of the torque, but then this has to be related to how they are driven
My workhorse has now done 135K miles with no problems from the AR25 box. I drive it sensibily, don't play tunes on the gearbox and get around 34 mpg on a run. That's the downside - it's not particularly economic & diesel is more expensive than petrol
Unfortunately, the BMW engine is much derided on this forum, but it is very reliable
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did the 2.2dti not come out in 98? got this off honest john
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Three year warranty from October 2000. 2.5 litre 6 cylinder BMW diesel supplemented, then replaced by GM's own 2.0 and 2.2DTi four cylinder chain cam diesels from January 1998.
engine may have come out in 98 (not sure) but it was never fitted to Omegas until late 2000 early 2001
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I personally have found more problems with the diesel than the petrols.....and they are only sought after thanks to the 'BMW' badge.
There biggest Achilles heal is the oil service intervals...6K ish recommended and 3K if you want it to last.
If you don't stick to this then the chains will stretch, the timing will go out and I have seen many of these that have thrown rods!. Throw in the cooling problems, pain in the arse viscous fan, water pumps that shed blades, heads that crack......
If it had any other badge it would be slated.
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The king has spoken gentlemen!
A diesel is bought for its reliabilty, strength, economy and extended service intervals. From what i've seen on this forum, these don't seem to be terms in common with the 2.5!?! It is old technology nowadays and frankly any car which needs its oil changing every 4-5 thousand miles these days is just a joke frankly :o
....but quite prepared to be overuled ;D
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here are the models for comparison..
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/equipment/Summary.aspx?model=985
whatever you buy , buy a fully loaded one..
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whatever you buy , buy a fully loaded one..
Best piece of advice on this forum ;D :y
....can the same piece of advice be applied to women? :-X
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Oh, and you won't get a 98/99 2.2 Diesel, they were available in the facelift from 2001 onwards iirc
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whatever you buy , buy a fully loaded one..
Best piece of advice on this forum ;D :y
....can the same piece of advice be applied to women? :-X
;D ;D erm..depends.. :-X
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The king has spoken gentlemen!
A diesel is bought for its reliabilty, strength, economy and extended service intervals. From what i've seen on this forum, these don't seem to be terms in common with the 2.5!?! It is old technology nowadays and frankly any car which needs its oil changing every 4-5 thousand miles these days is just a joke frankly :o
....but quite prepared to be overuled ;D
Most more knowledgeble than me on here would advise to change the oil on petrol engines that frequently, for longer engine life.
Mick
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Not 3K ....5-6K on a petrol is fine......the diesel needs doing more often mainly due to the soot that gets into the oil past the bores.
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also oil in a diesel, its first job is to clean, so its not engine ware that uses oil so fast, its the soot in the oil :y
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bmw engine ok , timing chain bit of a nightmare to do, sump off etc, vauxhall did a recall on m&n reg diesel omegas (on the chain).....oh try and get something like an exhaust system for a later 2.2 facelift!!!quite a rare beast by vauxhall standards ask any dealer parts dept!
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The BMW M51 2.5TDS is the motor fitted in most diesel Omegas up to 2001 (there was a rare 2.0DTi unit as well).
Its a fairly smooth unit, but underpowered due to detuning to stop it wrecking autoboxes. Easy to rechip to BMW spec (see Omegatoy), but if you have an auto, it will destroy it.
Oddly, I have done an awful lot of research into this engine, and have to agree with Marks_DTM about its ruggedness. Yes, there are examples of high mileage ones, but there are lots of examples of scrapped ones.
Cooling seems to be a huge issue with this power plant. And cooling issues on BMW engines warp and crack heads easily. My own tractor seems like it had an issue with the oil jets to the pistons (cured by some of Omegatoy's magic potions - I ask no questions!), but the overheating that this lack of piston cooling caused wrecked the head. I suspect similar piston cooling may be the cause of the ones throwing rods etc.
I think the lack of oil cooling to pistons is related to the utterly ridiculous service interval of 4,500 miles! Now, you buy a diesel because you want to cover a lot of miles (else it is not cost effective), yet you have to get it serviced every 3 months MAX. I suspect most get done much less regular, hence the expensive damage. Using longer life oil won't help either, as its the particulates in the oil, rather than the oil breaking down (as in petrols) that are the reason for short service inteval.
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Tend to agree with most of this, all I know is I used to drive, and still have it, a BMW 325 TDSE, goes like ... well all I can say its on Par with my MV6 up to 80 Mph, and still returns 36 to 50 Mpg!
I got involved with Megy's in 2005 coz I needed a Estate, It really was a tos up between an Meg 2.5td and a BM 525 Estate (based on my 325 TD experience), the Omega won on price, but what a difference on performance.... Ok there heavy Buses, but they really just dont perform either on performance or MPG.
Once I get the Bank Balance sorted after Xmas, Im going for Omegatoys 2.5 TD Chips and see what that doe's, If it come's anything close to BMW 325 performance but more inportant MPG I'll be happy, otherwise I'll stick stick to my 3.0 MV6 Estate untill such time I can afford BM or (hate to say this) Audi Estate Diesel Estate for work.
(Still keep the MV6 Estate though, love it!)
Chris.
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2.2 chain drive lomng service intervals exhaust parts no problem they are all the same on the diesels fuel and oil filters a bit fiddly but bags of power (i tow my holiday box and it does not know its there ) hope this helps :y
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I was going to say.....2.2 diesel exhausts are no problem to gt hold of....and they are on trade club.
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thanks for all the input lads, would i be better comming up in the years and going for the 2.2d? would it be better mpg?
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avg 39 -41 solo 27-30 towing
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The BMW M51 2.5TDS is the motor fitted in most diesel Omegas up to 2001 (there was a rare 2.0DTi unit as well).
Its a fairly smooth unit, but underpowered due to detuning to stop it wrecking autoboxes. Easy to rechip to BMW spec (see Omegatoy), but if you have an auto, it will destroy it.
Oddly, I have done an awful lot of research into this engine, and have to agree with Marks_DTM about its ruggedness. Yes, there are examples of high mileage ones, but there are lots of examples of scrapped ones.
Cooling seems to be a huge issue with this power plant. And cooling issues on BMW engines warp and crack heads easily. My own tractor seems like it had an issue with the oil jets to the pistons (cured by some of Omegatoy's magic potions - I ask no questions!), but the overheating that this lack of piston cooling caused wrecked the head. I suspect similar piston cooling may be the cause of the ones throwing rods etc.
I think the lack of oil cooling to pistons is related to the utterly ridiculous service interval of 4,500 miles! Now, you buy a diesel because you want to cover a lot of miles (else it is not cost effective), yet you have to get it serviced every 3 months MAX. I suspect most get done much less regular, hence the expensive damage. Using longer life oil won't help either, as its the particulates in the oil, rather than the oil breaking down (as in petrols) that are the reason for short service inteval.
I have a question though!
Is there something that can be done to lessen the risk of engine failure as a result of a lack of oil to the pistons?
If so Mr Omegatoy, what do you have brewing in your cauldron?
IW
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thanks for all the input lads, would i be better comming up in the years and going for the 2.2d? would it be better mpg?
Without question better MPG. Obviously it depends on how you drive it but honestly never seen it drop below 40 solo minimum 42 and as much as 48.
With the newer engine you will also be getting a much newer facelifted, revised, hopefully unrusty car and given their superb value for money anyway, I think it makes sense. Now the problem is trying to find a low mileage diesel!
Good luck :y
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The BMW M51 2.5TDS is the motor fitted in most diesel Omegas up to 2001 (there was a rare 2.0DTi unit as well).
Its a fairly smooth unit, but underpowered due to detuning to stop it wrecking autoboxes. Easy to rechip to BMW spec (see Omegatoy), but if you have an auto, it will destroy it.
Oddly, I have done an awful lot of research into this engine, and have to agree with Marks_DTM about its ruggedness. Yes, there are examples of high mileage ones, but there are lots of examples of scrapped ones.
Cooling seems to be a huge issue with this power plant. And cooling issues on BMW engines warp and crack heads easily. My own tractor seems like it had an issue with the oil jets to the pistons (cured by some of Omegatoy's magic potions - I ask no questions!), but the overheating that this lack of piston cooling caused wrecked the head. I suspect similar piston cooling may be the cause of the ones throwing rods etc.
I think the lack of oil cooling to pistons is related to the utterly ridiculous service interval of 4,500 miles! Now, you buy a diesel because you want to cover a lot of miles (else it is not cost effective), yet you have to get it serviced every 3 months MAX. I suspect most get done much less regular, hence the expensive damage. Using longer life oil won't help either, as its the particulates in the oil, rather than the oil breaking down (as in petrols) that are the reason for short service inteval.
I have a question though!
Is there something that can be done to lessen the risk of engine failure as a result of a lack of oil to the pistons?
If so Mr Omegatoy, what do you have brewing in your cauldron?
IW
very regular oilchanges and if you are late with one or two then a super strong flush, (unfortunately its trade only the stuff i use) thats all it takes
i look after 2 others and a range rover with the same engine that have all done well over 2hundred k and are absolutely fine
as to the other question about 2.2 or 2.5 the 2.5 is smoother longer lasting and i regularly get 48 to the gallon and have a lot more performance than the 2.2, but its horses for courses i guess
Omegatoy, :y
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I recommend 3k oil changes on anything...
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The BMW M51 2.5TDS is the motor fitted in most diesel Omegas up to 2001 (there was a rare 2.0DTi unit as well).
Its a fairly smooth unit, but underpowered due to detuning to stop it wrecking autoboxes. Easy to rechip to BMW spec (see Omegatoy), but if you have an auto, it will destroy it.
Oddly, I have done an awful lot of research into this engine, and have to agree with Marks_DTM about its ruggedness. Yes, there are examples of high mileage ones, but there are lots of examples of scrapped ones.
Cooling seems to be a huge issue with this power plant. And cooling issues on BMW engines warp and crack heads easily. My own tractor seems like it had an issue with the oil jets to the pistons (cured by some of Omegatoy's magic potions - I ask no questions!), but the overheating that this lack of piston cooling caused wrecked the head. I suspect similar piston cooling may be the cause of the ones throwing rods etc.
I think the lack of oil cooling to pistons is related to the utterly ridiculous service interval of 4,500 miles! Now, you buy a diesel because you want to cover a lot of miles (else it is not cost effective), yet you have to get it serviced every 3 months MAX. I suspect most get done much less regular, hence the expensive damage. Using longer life oil won't help either, as its the particulates in the oil, rather than the oil breaking down (as in petrols) that are the reason for short service inteval.
I have a question though!
Is there something that can be done to lessen the risk of engine failure as a result of a lack of oil to the pistons?
If so Mr Omegatoy, what do you have brewing in your cauldron?
IW
Regular (ie, 3k) oil changes.
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The BMW M51 2.5TDS is the motor fitted in most diesel Omegas up to 2001 (there was a rare 2.0DTi unit as well).
Its a fairly smooth unit, but underpowered due to detuning to stop it wrecking autoboxes. Easy to rechip to BMW spec (see Omegatoy), but if you have an auto, it will destroy it.
Oddly, I have done an awful lot of research into this engine, and have to agree with Marks_DTM about its ruggedness. Yes, there are examples of high mileage ones, but there are lots of examples of scrapped ones.
Cooling seems to be a huge issue with this power plant. And cooling issues on BMW engines warp and crack heads easily. My own tractor seems like it had an issue with the oil jets to the pistons (cured by some of Omegatoy's magic potions - I ask no questions!), but the overheating that this lack of piston cooling caused wrecked the head. I suspect similar piston cooling may be the cause of the ones throwing rods etc.
I think the lack of oil cooling to pistons is related to the utterly ridiculous service interval of 4,500 miles! Now, you buy a diesel because you want to cover a lot of miles (else it is not cost effective), yet you have to get it serviced every 3 months MAX. I suspect most get done much less regular, hence the expensive damage. Using longer life oil won't help either, as its the particulates in the oil, rather than the oil breaking down (as in petrols) that are the reason for short service inteval.
I have a question though!
Is there something that can be done to lessen the risk of engine failure as a result of a lack of oil to the pistons?
If so Mr Omegatoy, what do you have brewing in your cauldron?
IW
very regular oilchanges and if you are late with one or two then a super strong flush, (unfortunately its trade only the stuff i use) thats all it takes
i look after 2 others and a range rover with the same engine that have all done well over 2hundred k and are absolutely fine
as to the other question about 2.2 or 2.5 the 2.5 is smoother longer lasting and i regularly get 48 to the gallon and have a lot more performance than the 2.2, but its horses for courses i guess
Omegatoy, :y
Thanks
As I have my servicing done by someone in the trade, could you say what the product is (PM if necessary) & I'll get him to use it?
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Are you specifically suffering from overheating? If not, keep to the 3k max oil and filter changes. If you are suffering overheating check out cooling system first, if that is tip-top, flush the oil, then keep to 3k oil and filter changes max.
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The overheating problem that I had was in the summer when pulling up long gradients on Motorways with a full load of PA equipment (we're a big, loud Band by Ceilidh standards)
At present it happily runs at 92.5 again but of course that could be due to the cooler ambient temperature, so I will have to wait for warmer weather again to determine if I have a latent cooling problem
I was thinking in terms of preventative measures given the fact that it has now done 134K miles & whether a thorough & comprehensive oil flush might reset the clock (as though to speak) as far as the lubrication ssytem was concerned
IW
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The overheating problem that I had was in the summer when pulling up long gradients on Motorways with a full load of PA equipment (we're a big, loud Band by Ceilidh standards)
At present it happily runs at 92.5 again but of course that could be due to the cooler ambient temperature, so I will have to wait for warmer weather again to determine if I have a latent cooling problem
I was thinking in terms of preventative measures given the fact that it has now done 134K miles & whether a thorough & comprehensive oil flush might reset the clock (as though to speak) as far as the lubrication ssytem was concerned
IW
Thats normal behaviour for the td mine does it when caravan is on the rear, only way to stop it is new radiator and even then it still climbs up the scale a fair bit, as long as when you get to the top of the hill and are on the flat it cools down fairly rapidly then its nowt to worry about!!! should ADD
auto is worse for this cos the rad is full of hot atf down one side also trying to be cooled by the radiator!!!
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Mine has a tip top cooling system, inc new rad. A good long foot flat to floor uphill slog gets it to 96/97 ish.
If you're getting hot under full boost, look at conventional (coolant) cooling system. If you're getting hot even with only short bouts of boost, then look at the oil.
Sounds like yours is not far from normal, so just keep to the 3k oil and filter changes, and that should keep her happy :y