Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: CaptainZok on 05 October 2007, 23:18:07
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Anyone got any tips for the novice arc welder?
Just bought one of those cheapo welders from aldi in the hope of me and Tonygnome learning how to, so tips from those more experienced would be great.
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May be this page will be helpfull
http://www.aussieweld.com.au/arcwelding/page2/page2.htm
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Practice, practice and practice some more, before lunching onto something important. Listen for the real fizzle of a good penatrative weld, sounds like a good crispy bacon slice in the pan and without breaks.... Dont over power the thing so as to get burn through and try upright welding once you are happy on the flat. Slice a few practice runs open to see whats inside the weld....
Is it stick or MIG? If stick, you know you have a tidy weld if you can clear the slag off as one nice strip. if it takes lots of chipping then its like badly chewed chewing gum and no great penetration.....
If MiG, with practice, you can weld rust!! ;D
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Practice, practice and practice some more, before lunching onto something important. Listen for the real fizzle of a good penatrative weld, sounds like a good crispy bacon slice in the pan and without breaks.... Dont over power the thing so as to get burn through and try upright welding once you are happy on the flat. Slice a few practice runs open to see whats inside the weld....
Is it stick or MIG? If stick, you know you have a tidy weld if you can clear the slag off as one nice strip. if it takes lots of chipping then its like badly chewed chewing gum and no great penetration.....
If MiG, with practice, you can weld rust!! ;D
Tis a stick Broocie, £37 from that famous discount tool emporium Aldi, 40-160 turbo jobbie.
Just bought it to play really, as we discussed at Newent I've played with gas a bit but never really touched leccy. Will be a learning experience for me and T. Have to blag a load of scrap to play with now.
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Have to blag a load of scrap to play with now.
I have a tractor on my drive ;D
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I borrowed a MIG from work to fix my BBQ. I can only agree with Hotel21, it just takes loads of practice. Never tried with a stick welder but I believe it's quite different. I assume that you can still change the power to the arc?
After a while, you just seem to know when the weld is flowing right. Can't wait to have another go. I keep bugging our engineer at work to let me loose on something but I haven't persuaded him yet. ;D
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If MiG, with practice, you can weld rust!!
Just don't repair your stainless exhaust, wondering why you're making a sh!te job of it, and, only when putting the final few blobs of weld on the internal baffle to hold it on, realise that you've got no shielding gas coming out :-[
Kevin
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After your last quality exhaust repair Captain i think you have nothing to worry about ::)
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Arc is a bit of a pain....the power figures quoted are miss leading to as you cant get much more than 130 amps from a 13A feed.
Get some old bits and practice, with arc you have to scratch the surface to get it to strike, MIG is better all round for this.
Make sure the metal you want to weld is clean.
And have a good go....its not to hard.
I also got an auto darkening helmet which REALY helps....
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I also got an auto darkening helmet which REALY helps....
Any recommendations? I think this has to be my next welding related purchase. I'm convinced it'd be easier if I wasn't trying to do it one-handed while holding a mask to my face.
Kevin
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I got one like this (not the same) from ebay.....and its VERY good.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/auto-darkening-welding-helmet-mask-Price-includes-VAT_W0QQitemZ200159063932QQihZ010QQcategoryZ67052QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I went for a battery one rather than a solar powered job and a shade rage of 7-13 to give a little better flexability.
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Thanks, Mark :y
Kevin
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Theres not that many applications that you can use an arc welder on car body work for they are just to powerful and tend to blow thin panel type metal away. If you use any electrical welder on a car remember to disconnect the battery and alternator or it will stuff the diode pack. As said its just practice,practice, practice and eventually you will be able to weld tissue paper :y
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With it being a stick welder, i would make sure the rods you get are half decent, cheapo ones are ok on heavy work but when you want to be more delicate they aren't very good.
As everyone else says practice lots, and its better if you have a fancy mask whereby you can use both hands, and are using clean metal!! Its much harder welding on scrap than decent stuff. Well thats my opinion anyhow!
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Some thoughts on Arc Welding, or MMA (Manual Metal Arc) as its now called. The hand held masks are a bit of a pain, you really need 2 hands to control the torch and your work. Machinery Mart have a selection of flip down masks under £10, and they usually come right down so cover part of your chest, which is very useful. Its a pain if you get a red hot spark of molten metal down your teeshirt, you can't get the B*** out, and it still burns, oh yes!! ;D. Next thing is a good pair of Welders Leather Gauntlets. They don't cost a lot (£3?) but protect your hands, sleeves from sparks. They last a long time, mine are over 15 years old, so are a good investment. I also spashed out on a leather Bolero, which also covers my arms and chest, which is very useful if you are welding overheard. There is something pyschological about welding overhead watching the shower of sparks fall down, thinking "SH1T, these are all at 1100deg C, and may get down my teeshirt" !! :-? :-? :-?. The autodarkening helmets are very clever, but you may end up spending twice what the welder cost for safety equipment, which you may rarely use. Try a cheap flipdown, and if you want to progress get an auto darkening. The hand held mask is still useful, someone will invariably want to watch the pretty sparks. This is a BAD IDEA, arc welding gives off intense UV, which dries out the cornea, and makes you feel as if someone has put a load of sand in your eye. Not nice. The effect usually wears off after a day, and there shouldn't be any permanent damage but.....
Now onto actual welding. The factors that affect the weld are : current, angle of torch, speed of travel, and clean work. If you can, get a piece of about 1.6mm steel, and 1.6mm electrodes. I chose 1.6mm steel because its about the optimum thickness for that size of electrode, also about the thinnest you can properly weld with that current. You can sometimes weld thinner, but its a bit difficult. Clip the earth electrode to the steel, clip an electrode in the torch, and set the welder to about 40A. Angle the electrode at about 45deg, and scratch it across the surface of the steel. This should start an arc. Remember not to stop, or the electrode will weld itself to the steel, and you will have to switch off or unclip the electrode and bend it to get it off. This will damage part of the flux covering, so the electrode will be a pain to use next time, it will tend to stick immediately. Keep trying this, and eventually you will get a good bead of weld on the surface. Once you have chipped off the slag look at the bead. It should be nice and even, between 1 and 2mm high. If much higher than this, you are not getting good penetration to the steel, so the current is a bit low, you are too slow, the angle is a bit high, or the surface dirty. Also as said by Hotel21, the slag should chip off easily. The idea is that the slag solidifies on the surface of the molten metal and protects it from oxidising when it is cooling. If it get mixed up in the weld metal, then the arc is jumping about, speed is slow, or the angle is too high. Having got this sussed, try increasing the current to say 80A and trying the same again. This is your doubling the heat input, the arc will sound much fiercer, the metal should start to glow red, and its poss you will blow a hole. Thats OK, try welding at a faster speed and see how it affects things. Thats the rule, if welding thin metal keep the current down, but watch out for incomplete penetration. If thick, turn it up, 'cause a lot of heat will be ducted away by the metal thickness.
Now try welding 2 pieces of steel together. put them apart about 1mm, and weld short blobs every 4 ins to keep them spaced that distance. When you weld, the heat will make the metal tend to bend away, so the gap may start at 1mm, but will soon become 2 or 3 or 4mm which will be a pain!. Using the 40A setting, start an arc at the top, still 45deg to the direction of travel, and weld down the job. When finished, chip off the slag and look at the weld from both sides. Ideally you should have a bead about 2mm high on top and about 0.5mm on the bottom, and there should be no sign of the metal edges underneath. This means that you have totally penetrated the thickness of the metal, and its well fused.
Sometimes you will do a brilliant weld and immediately pick it up to show someone how good you are. THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. The metal has recently been at about 1100deg C, and will still be hot to the mortal hand for a long time. That is reason why the welding guantlets are a GOOD IDEA !. They are also handy, when welding thick metal (>6mm), I tend to use the left gloved hand to guide the electrode near the work. Try writing with a pencil 12" long, held from the blunt end.
The Nirvana of Arc Welding is when you finish a weld, flip the helmet up, you hear a slight crack from the cooling metal, and the slag curls off all by its self. This only happens rarely, but when it does, it means you have got all the parameters right, the slag has hardened and is protecting the steel, which is cooling and shrinking, and hence the flux peels off all by itself. I've only had it happen a few times, but its very satisfying when it does !!!!. :y :y :y
Best of luck
Ken
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I think KenT is the welding equivalent to Shakespear. That was the best essay on welding that I have ever read. Respect to Ken. :y
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I think KenT is the welding equivalent to Shakespear. That was the best essay on welding that I have ever read. Respect to Ken. :y
I will second that, i know a welder that has been on so many courses that he could wallpaper his front room with the Certificates, but he is not capable of explaining things the way you have in your post.
You must be very good at your Job. :y
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Thanks for that SGB & CD,
No I am not an expert, I studied it at Night Classes for 3 years and passed all the exams, But that was 7 years ago, and I believe that welding is a skill that should be practised regularly to be good at. A guy who welds every day will be a lot better than me, despite bits of paper. However if this starts people off, then great. Once you get the 'bug' for it, sign up to a local college for a training course. Its cheap and I think its an art better taught by someone showing you, rather than reading a book. I fancy having a go soon, welding up an adaptable trailer, that can cope with different loads, eg lots of supports for taking motorbikes, supporting sheets of plywood, carrying cement mixers, taking stuff to the dump etc. Anyone fancy a bit of design work ?.
Ken
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Thanks for that SGB,
No I am not an expert, I studied it at Night Classes for 3 years and passed all the exams, But that was 7 years ago, and I believe that welding is a skill that should be practised regularly to be good at. A guy who welds every day will be a lot better than me, despite bits of paper. However if this starts people off, then great. Once you get the 'bug' for it, sign up to a local college for a training course. Its cheap and I think its an art better taught by someone showing you, rather than reading a book. I fancy having a go soon, welding up an adaptable trailer, that can cope with different loads, eg lots of supports for taking motorbikes, supporting sheets of plywood, carrying cement mixers, taking stuff to the dump etc. Anyone fancy a bit of design work ?.
Ken
Well, I'm trying to teach myself Autocad at the moment and that also is something that is better to be shown by someone else rather than trying to read it in a book. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is impossible to teach yourself, unless that is, you know better. (That's Life. circa 1977) ;D ;D
I may be able to help with some engineering drawings about 2020. :'( :'(
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Thanks for all the info guys.
Well we've had a play about this evening, got as far as making a few straight runs and sticking some old disc pads together.
Those of you who saw Tonygnome's love of fire at Newent, imagine what happens when you give him a welder to play with. :o
So it looks like its gonna cost me a bloody fortune in steel and rods now. ;D
I think I'll be looking at one of those auto dimming helmets in the near future, the hand shield is a right pain and I'm sure being able to see what your doing before striking up is a great help.
As you've all said its just practice, we've both learned a lot in an evenings playing got as far as keeping a single run of weld right across the workpiece which don't sound much but looking at our first birds**t attempts is quite an achievement.
I'm even thinking about knocking up a bench for the shed out of some angle iron as a first project, if Tony lets me use the bloody thing for long enough. ;D
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Oh I nearly forgot, on the safety aspect. ( this will destroy my street cred !!!)
If welding a car, as well as disconnecting the battery and alternator as Tony H said, have a fire extinguisher handy AT ALL TIMES. I was once putting a patch inside the offside front wheel arch of a Cavalier, when I noticed a glow through the helmet. OK, this normally means you have set the underseal alight, so what you do with a MIG is to half press the trigger which starts the gas (CO2) flowing which will put out the flame. Unfortunately it didn't and I flipped up the helmet, only to see petrol driping down from the pipe other side of the wheel arch, nicely on flame. OH *********. I grabbed a nearby bucket of water and threw it on the fire, which as we all know did absolutely no use at all, in fact made things worse. Fortunately the mind cleared a bit, and I remembered a cheap £10 car fire extinguisher I had bought some time back, which quickly put out the flames. All things are fun provide you play in a safe fashion, and watch out for petrol pipes !!!! :y
Ken
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[size=14]Newsflash:[/size]
[size=12]Bolton House Burns To The Ground[/size]
A house in Bolton has been destroyed by fire. Initial reports suggest that it was started by a young boy and his father trying to weld their garden shed together.
Despite neither having a rather clue what they were doing, they were convinced that you could weld tongued and grooved timber.
The investigation continues.
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Oh I nearly forgot, on the safety aspect. ( this will destroy my street cred !!!)
If welding a car, as well as disconnecting the battery and alternator as Tony H said, have a fire extinguisher handy AT ALL TIMES. I was once putting a patch inside the offside front wheel arch of a Cavalier, when I noticed a glow through the helmet. OK, this normally means you have set the underseal alight, so what you do with a MIG is to half press the trigger which starts the gas (CO2) flowing which will put out the flame. Unfortunately it didn't and I flipped up the helmet, only to see petrol driping down from the pipe other side of the wheel arch, nicely on flame. OH *********. I grabbed a nearby bucket of water and threw it on the fire, which as we all know did absolutely no use at all, in fact made things worse. Fortunately the mind cleared a bit, and I remembered a cheap £10 car fire extinguisher I had bought some time back, which quickly put out the flames. All things are fun provide you play in a safe fashion, and watch out for petrol pipes !!!! :y
Ken
I used to help a mate welding cars and a squeezy bottle of water was the usual way of quenching underseal fires, wet rags round anything that couldn't be removed and make sure you KNOW your nowhere near petrol lines, Oxy-Acet seems to just eat through them.
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[size=14]Newsflash:[/size]
[size=12]Bolton House Burns To The Ground[/size]
A house in Bolton has been destroyed by fire. Initial reports suggest that it was started by a young boy and his father trying to weld their garden shed together.
Despite neither having a rather clue what they were doing, they were convinced that you could weld tongued and grooved timber.
The investigation continues.
LMAO. It could happen, the angle grinders his second fave toy now.
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Enjoy your welding..
I have done plenty of welding in the past both with Arc an Mig..
The latter being the easiest..A pleasurable experience..Wheres the metal.. :y
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Thanks for all the info guys.
Well we've had a play about this evening, got as far as making a few straight runs and sticking some old disc pads together.
Those of you who saw Tonygnome's love of fire at Newent, imagine what happens when you give him a welder to play with. :o
So it looks like its gonna cost me a bloody fortune in steel and rods now. ;D
I think I'll be looking at one of those auto dimming helmets in the near future, the hand shield is a right pain and I'm sure being able to see what your doing before striking up is a great help.
As you've all said its just practice, we've both learned a lot in an evenings playing got as far as keeping a single run of weld right across the workpiece which don't sound much but looking at our first birds**t attempts is quite an achievement.
I'm even thinking about knocking up a bench for the shed out of some angle iron as a first project, if Tony lets me use the bloody thing for long enough. ;D
More power to your arc !.
I have a workshop table made by a friend out of 1" by 1" angle by about 3mm thick. It is remarkably stable, and doesn't shake. When welding this thickness, turn the current up, and use thick rods, about 3.25mm. They don't seem too expensive, Machinery mart wants about £11 for 2.5kg. Keep them dry, else they "go off" !. Some people put them in the oven for a while to dry out, although what this does to food cooked after is anyone's guess !! ;D ;D
Ken
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Thanks for all the info guys.
Well we've had a play about this evening, got as far as making a few straight runs and sticking some old disc pads together.
Those of you who saw Tonygnome's love of fire at Newent, imagine what happens when you give him a welder to play with. :o
So it looks like its gonna cost me a bloody fortune in steel and rods now. ;D
I think I'll be looking at one of those auto dimming helmets in the near future, the hand shield is a right pain and I'm sure being able to see what your doing before striking up is a great help.
As you've all said its just practice, we've both learned a lot in an evenings playing got as far as keeping a single run of weld right across the workpiece which don't sound much but looking at our first birds**t attempts is quite an achievement.
I'm even thinking about knocking up a bench for the shed out of some angle iron as a first project, if Tony lets me use the bloody thing for long enough. ;D
More power to your arc !.
I have a workshop table made by a friend out of 1" by 1" by about 3mm thick. It is remarkably stable, and doesn't shake. When welding this thickness, turn the current up, and use thick rods, about 3.25mm. They don't seem too expensive, Machinery mart wants about £11 for 2.5kg. Keep them dry, else they "go off" !. Some people put them in the oven for a while to dry out, although what this does to food cooked after is anyone's guess !! ;D ;DKen
That explains it then..SWMBO Cooking ;D ;D