Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: baldeagle on 21 December 2007, 12:08:28
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Local Vauxhall dealership are trying to diagnose the cause of misfiring on my Omega CD 2.2 petrol auto. They have upgraded the software on the existing ECU and cleaned the throttle body but the Technician thinks that the ECU needs replacing at a cost of £900. I am reluctant to proceed with the repair since they will not guarantee that the new ECU will solve the problem.
Suggestions please?
Baldeagle
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ECUs very rarely fail. This is a case of them running out of ideas and picking a part at random. Do they really expect you to shell out 900 quid on the offchance that it'll fix it?
Do you know if they have read any trouble codes from the ECU? Under what circumstances does the car misfire? Let us have some information on the problem and we can give you some pointers.
Kevin
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The emmissions warning light has been 'on' continually for a while without any apparent change in engine performance, then a couple of days ago the car was difficult to start from cold. It would start immediately and run normally for a few seconds then misfire and stop. I was able to keep the engine running from cold by use of the throttle and it improved slightly as the engine warmed up but driving was difficult because the engine misfired every few seconds and then picked up again.
The Vauxhall dealer has read the codes and cleared them but I do not know what they were.
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I'd say the first step is to find someone with a code reader and get the codes read. I'm assuming they will have recurred. The fact that it started with an emissions light and has been getting worse suggests that something has been gradually failing. An ECU going pop would have happened suddenly.
It's a real shame they didn't save the trouble codes before they reset them. >:(
Whereabouts are you located, by the way?
Kevin
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Sounds like a fueling issue to me matey
Fuel Pump?
Fuel pressure regulator?
Injector?
If it was me i`d do a compression check and fuel pressure check first and test the ignition module its highly unlikely to be an ecu by the way youv`e described the fault.
P.s get the fault codes you have paid for them after all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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If you *have* to go to a vauxhall stealer to get the work done do what I did, make an agreement that if the new part doesnt fix the problem they will re-fit the old one and only charge labour for the time taken to fit the new one (not do the sawp back) . At least that way you minimise the cost of seeing if their poke and hope works. You might want to also ask for the diagnosis fee to be returned if it doesnt fix it as they clearly havent diagnosed anything...
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Thanks guys for your suggestions and advice I will let you know the eventual outcome. I made the assumption that the Vauxhall dealership would be most likely to have the equipment, expertise and experience to diagnose a fault but so far I have been sadly disappointed and almost £200 out of pocket.
Baldeagle, Mansfield, Notts.
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Sounds like a fueling issue to me matey
Could well be. Worth checking the fuel filter isn't clogged too.
I assume the dealer will have checked the spark plugs and coil pack but just in case...
Make sure the cam cover hasn't leaked and submerged the plugs in oil too.
Air filter? Worth a check.
Could be a crank or cam sensor but without the codes read it's not easy to say.
Kevin
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I made the assumption that the Vauxhall dealership would be most likely to have the equipment, expertise and experience to diagnose a fault but so far I have been sadly disappointed.
I think thats what they rely on, that a big flashy shopfront and well equipped garage will draw you in thinking that they know everything there is to know about vauxhalls.
I've gleaned more info on omegas, in particular, from this forum, than any garage has ever provided. Where i used to live in Kent, the vauxhall main dealers garage used to send diesel cars to a local diesel truck specialist for diagnosis... what does that tell you?
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The problem with all main dealers these days seems to be that they've lost all the guys with experience and they teach new mechanics to rely too much on computer diagnostics. Every time I am waiting at the parts counter of a main dealer I hear customers being told "we've put it on the computer and it's fine".
Things haven't changed. To fault find a car you still need to understand how all the systems work, just like you needed to in the days of distributors and carburettors. You also need to understand the limitations of the diagnostic aids you have, and understand why they're telling you something, not what they're telling you.
Sadly, most main dealer mechanics will replace anything mentioned by the diagnostic software with no further thought. Once they've run out of trouble codes and there's still a fault they assume it's the ECU - because it's not reporting a problem when there is one!
>:(
Kevin
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Also because they can charge huge amounts for it. They said it was my ECU and wanted £650 for a replacement. I got one plus the keyreader from a scrappy for £45. This does need a tech 2 to program to the car key, but you can get the whole set from some breakers for about £100.
Best of luck,
Cheers Ken
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Local Vauxhall dealership ......... thinks that the ECU needs replacing at a cost of £900. .......
Coincidently I was in my local Vx dealership yesterday, and was ear-wigging a phone conversation where they were telling the customer that his car needed a new ECU (don't know which one). I said to the spares lad "not that old line again! ECU's rarely fail"
He said that apparently the car was on its 3rd already. Something tells me that the problem is elsewhere!
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Baldeagle, Mansfield, Notts.
Are you near Brackley?
If you are I would PM TheBoy, and arrange for him to run his TechII over it.
You will get a far better diagnosis than at the dealers, and will probably save you a shed load of money.
Have you checked for water/oil in the plug wells?
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No.....hes near me....I am in South Nottingham and could have a look at the live data and do a few tests......
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No.....hes near me....I am in South Nottingham and could have a look at the live data and do a few tests......
I think this is the OPs best option, and would be the option I would take up...
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No.....hes near me....I am in South Nottingham and could have a look at the live data and do a few tests......
Oops, was a bit tired, read Notts as Northants :-[
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The Vauxhall garage have carried out further checks on my Omega 2.2 petrol auto and the technician is convinced that the ECU is faulty. He suspects that the air mass flow meter needs replacing also ( at a cost of £87) but won't be certain until the ECU is replaced.I suggested that the flow meter be replaced first but they insisted that the ECU was the problem.
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Contact MarksDTM, let him run his TechII over it before you spend anymore money.
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Thanks again for the advice
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The Vauxhall garage have carried out further checks on my Omega 2.2 petrol auto and the technician is convinced that the ECU is faulty. He suspects that the air mass flow meter needs replacing also ( at a cost of £87) but won't be certain until the ECU is replaced.I suggested that the flow meter be replaced first but they insisted that the ECU was the problem.
Sounds like someone who has run out of ideas to me. A visit to Mark required.
Kevin
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Just to say that I have been a member of this forum from it's early conception a year and a half ago, and before that another year on a different Vx forum. I must have seen posts from hundreds if not thousands of Omega owners regarding various problems with the cars. I have never ever seen one that was down to a faulty ECU.... this is not to say that ECUs don't go wrong, but as said it is very very rare. I would try to get to one of the forum members with Tech-II and forget about Vx dealer.
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I agree, I have yet to see an Engine ECU fault (that may have changed - I'll put up a post in a while). Most dealers say ECU failure because they simply don't know what to try next.
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My Omega CD 2.2 petrol auto is back home on the driveway and I have the Vauxhall "Technician's" report detailing the diagnostic checks which cost £180 but I decided against paying the £977 for a new ECU.So far the engine is starting and running normally but the emmissions warning light is still 'on' continually.For what it's worth this is the report
"Emmission light on + misfire. Vehicle running + cutting out on drive into workshop. Carried out Tech test, several trouble codes stored, all not present, cleared codes and ran vehicle to see if any specific code would re-occur. No more codes came up. After running engine for a while noticed that the exhaust was glowing near the cat, suspect that the exhaust could be blocked, allowed to cool down then disconnected exhaust from behind cat. Still running poorly so mid and rear exhaust OK. Removed O2 sensor from before cat, still running poorly so cat seems OK. Exhaust must be glowing due to overfueling and burning fuel in cat, require more time to check into fault.
Reconnected all of exhaust, cleared codes and ran engine , trouble code P1555 was present, will require ECU update before investigating any further. Updated ECU, fault code now cleared, still running poorly but not backfiring anymore, checked throttle body, requires cleaning out. Cleaned out throttle body and top breather pipe, still running poorly but with no trouble codes stored. Will have to work through checking procedures to code that was stored previously. Checking procedures asked to check for blockages and for leaks on intake pipes. Breathers and throttle body already cleaned and checked. Next step is to check programming, ECU has already been reprogrammed. Checking procedures recognise faulty ECU, however code is not present at the moment"
The sales invoice stated that the valve timing was also checked but this does not appear in the "technician's" report.
PS thanks again guys for all your replies, I need to contact MarkDTM to arrange for further checks and 2nd opinion.
Regards and Happy New Year, Baldeagle
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if any of you guys suspect anECU on any car try ATP,products in hednesford staffs(they have a web site) what these guys dont know about ECUs isnt worth knowing! they will check one out for you while you wait 1hr aprox if they know your coming or send by post, cost if iremember is very reasonable. you can always talk a problem thru with one of the tech guys.i understand they also write or rewrite ecu progs for some car makers. :y
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If the ECU turns out to be faulty does anyone know what the likely replacement cost will be at trade price?
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You dont replace them......you get them checked and reconditioned by the likes of Peacock and Purvey in Nottingham.....costs about 250 ish tops.
Or get a second hand one for much less.
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I'm planning to remove the engine ECU and take it to a specialist for testing and, if necessary, repair.. I understand that the ECU is located in the engine bay next to the battery, are there any special precautions to take when removing/refixing?
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My Omega CD 2.2 petrol auto is back home on the driveway and I have the Vauxhall "Technician's" report detailing the diagnostic checks which cost £180 but I decided against paying the £977 for a new ECU.So far the engine is starting and running normally but the emmissions warning light is still 'on' continually.For what it's worth this is the report
"Emmission light on + misfire. Vehicle running + cutting out on drive into workshop. Carried out Tech test, several trouble codes stored, all not present, cleared codes and ran vehicle to see if any specific code would re-occur. No more codes came up. After running engine for a while noticed that the exhaust was glowing near the cat, suspect that the exhaust could be blocked, allowed to cool down then disconnected exhaust from behind cat. Still running poorly so mid and rear exhaust OK. Removed O2 sensor from before cat, still running poorly so cat seems OK. Exhaust must be glowing due to overfueling and burning fuel in cat, require more time to check into fault.
Reconnected all of exhaust, cleared codes and ran engine , trouble code P1555 was present, will require ECU update before investigating any further. Updated ECU, fault code now cleared, still running poorly but not backfiring anymore, checked throttle body, requires cleaning out. Cleaned out throttle body and top breather pipe, still running poorly but with no trouble codes stored. Will have to work through checking procedures to code that was stored previously. Checking procedures asked to check for blockages and for leaks on intake pipes. Breathers and throttle body already cleaned and checked. Next step is to check programming, ECU has already been reprogrammed. Checking procedures recognise faulty ECU, however code is not present at the moment"
The sales invoice stated that the valve timing was also checked but this does not appear in the "technician's" report.
PS thanks again guys for all your replies, I need to contact MarkDTM to arrange for further checks and 2nd opinion.
Regards and Happy New Year, Baldeagle
If that was written by a Vauxhall Technician, then I am a monkeys uncle! Without the ECU update (which I doubt will help in the slightest) I could have done most those diagnostics and come to the same conclusions for you in less than an hour!
You really need to go and see Mark, I recommend viewing the live data with the engine running, to see if anything seems off the Mark...