Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: TheBoy on 02 October 2007, 21:40:38

Title: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 02 October 2007, 21:40:38
As you can probably gather, I do not really know what I'm doing on this one, and out of my depth.  But as the weekend is looking fine, and it may be the last decent weekend left, perhaps I should attempt it...
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: hotel21 on 02 October 2007, 21:43:33
I voted for 'with help' if, for no other reason, than to help holding/pulling/pushing bits or for a wee bit of simple reassurance.

Unless you really want to do it as a one man band, that is, for the sense of achievement......    8-)
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Elite Pete on 02 October 2007, 22:05:12
Two heads are better than one as they say :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Baron Von Spongebob on 02 October 2007, 22:09:48
Have some help TB..

its better with 2 if only to blame the other for something  :D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: IrmscherKris on 02 October 2007, 22:49:59
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Two heads are better than one as they say :y

No pun intended eh?  ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 02 October 2007, 22:50:58
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Two heads are better than one as they say :y

No pun intended eh?  ;D
Only 1 on a tractor ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Entwood on 02 October 2007, 22:54:33
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Two heads are better than one as they say :y

No pun intended eh?  ;D
Only 1 on a tractor ;D

but as you are swapping them .. you must have 2 ..... ??    ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 02 October 2007, 22:57:46
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Two heads are better than one as they say :y

No pun intended eh?  ;D
Only 1 on a tractor ;D

but as you are swapping them .. you must have 2 ..... ??    ;D ;D ;D
Good point, well presented :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Jay w on 03 October 2007, 08:28:38
if you need a hand Jamie PM me, always happy to muck in
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Markie on 03 October 2007, 09:02:17
you can do a head on your own, but help is always good..
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 03 October 2007, 19:52:20
Its a straight 6 head, and a big one at that. Any assistance from anyone would be greatfully received :)
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 03 October 2007, 21:00:51
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Its a straight 6 head, and a big one at that. Any assistance from anyone would be greatfully received :)

Although I'm little far, I'm voluntary

ps: problem is I'm not very good for repairing engines.. :)
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 03 October 2007, 21:05:10
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Its a straight 6 head, and a big one at that. Any assistance from anyone would be greatfully received :)

Although I'm little far, I'm voluntary

ps: problem is I'm not very good for repairing engines.. :)
LOL, may be a long way ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 03 October 2007, 21:08:40
long way is not important !! approx 3 hours from here with plane ...I like it working on engines with friends and learn too many..

but a 1500 $ is missing :)

ps: also I miss to see clouds and rain which is not existent here..
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Cav9_4 on 03 October 2007, 21:10:48
Which day are you thinking,my son plays saturday football and sunday too, so depending on kick off times i'd be up for it,could also be available on a week day too if that helps...Wayne
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 03 October 2007, 21:19:38
Saturday was the planned day...
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Cav9_4 on 03 October 2007, 21:30:24
Ok,leave it with me,he has training for his saturday team tomorrow evening,had to call a match off last week due to injuries and the following wednesday only 6 turned up to training! so may well be called off again,i'll let you know tomorrow evening...Wayne
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Jay w on 03 October 2007, 21:59:16
Jamie, I am in nottingham this weekend, could pop down if you want some help, would be happy to help out

Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 03 October 2007, 22:04:49
Any help appreciated :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 October 2007, 04:22:09
I will check with the wife....next weekend I think would be easier....but, I might be able to get down for a few hours.
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Elite Pete on 04 October 2007, 09:28:27
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I will check with the wife....next weekend I think would be easier....but, I might be able to get down for a few hours.

Its not a disco :D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 04 October 2007, 12:16:56
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I will check with the wife....next weekend I think would be easier....but, I might be able to get down for a few hours.
The reason I was going for this weekend is the weather looks nice, and this time of year, that may not happen again.  I imagine doing it in the rain under a gazebo, as we did on the first engine swap, is less than ideal...

However, I'm nervous about attacking this without the help of one of the clever peeps, so will happily delay until next weekend if you can make then, and don't mind what the weather is doing?

Let me know asap :)
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: VXL V6 on 04 October 2007, 12:38:06
I can come down if it's a week Sunday and get in the way help.... well I can make the tea or summat.
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 04 October 2007, 21:05:22
Well the voting seems to agree I should tackle this weekend, if I can get help :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Auto Addict on 05 October 2007, 18:49:33
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Well the voting seems to agree I should tackle this weekend, if I can get help :y

I would come, but I don't think a one-armed pensioner would be much help :(
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 05 October 2007, 18:58:21
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Well the voting seems to agree I should tackle this weekend, if I can get help :y

I would come, but I don't think a one-armed pensioner would be much help :(
Is a 2 armed pensioner any good either  ;)


;D :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Golfbuddy on 05 October 2007, 19:01:58
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Well the voting seems to agree I should tackle this weekend, if I can get help :y

I would come, but I don't think a one-armed pensioner would be much help :(

Well, you could give helpful advice on how they used to do it in your day. How the price of bread is so much higher now and how you used to be able to buy 10 pints of mild, 20 capstan full strength, a fish supper and still have change from half a crown.

I'm sure your help would be greatly appreciated.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Auto Addict on 05 October 2007, 19:03:21
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Well the voting seems to agree I should tackle this weekend, if I can get help :y

I would come, but I don't think a one-armed pensioner would be much help :(
Is a 2 armed pensioner any good either  ;)


;D :y

Cheeky s*d >:( ;)
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Baron Von Spongebob on 05 October 2007, 19:04:18
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Well the voting seems to agree I should tackle this weekend, if I can get help :y

I would come, but I don't think a one-armed pensioner would be much help :(

Well, you could give helpful advice on how they used to do it in your day. How the price of bread is so much higher now and how you used to be able to buy 10 pints of mild, 20 capstan full strength, a fish supper and still have change from half a crown.

I'm sure your help would be greatly appreciated.

;D ;D ;D

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: CaptainZok on 05 October 2007, 19:14:00
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Well the voting seems to agree I should tackle this weekend, if I can get help :y

I would come, but I don't think a one-armed pensioner would be much help :(

Well, you could give helpful advice on how they used to do it in your day. How the price of bread is so much higher now and how you used to be able to buy 10 pints of mild, 20 capstan full strength, a fish supper and still have change from half a crown.

I'm sure your help would be greatly appreciated.

;D ;D ;D
Don't forget the tram fare home. ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 05 October 2007, 19:14:30
The embarrassing thing is, AA is much, much fitter than I am, and I'm very, very nearly half his age (in 2004 I was half his age)...
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Golfbuddy on 05 October 2007, 19:15:21
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Quote
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Well the voting seems to agree I should tackle this weekend, if I can get help :y

I would come, but I don't think a one-armed pensioner would be much help :(

Well, you could give helpful advice on how they used to do it in your day. How the price of bread is so much higher now and how you used to be able to buy 10 pints of mild, 20 capstan full strength, a fish supper and still have change from half a crown.

I'm sure your help would be greatly appreciated.

;D ;D ;D
Don't forget the tram fare home. ;D

And you tell that to the kids of today and they wouldn't believe you.  ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 05 October 2007, 19:34:34
Anyway, once again, completely off track!

I am going to start removing donor head tomorrow morning. Wish me luck!  Hopefully, I'll be able to get the job finished tomorrow.

Anyone at a loose end want to offer a hand, feel free - that head is going to be bloody heavy!
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 05 October 2007, 19:39:30
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Anyway, once again, completely off track!

I am going to start removing donor head tomorrow morning. Wish me luck!  Hopefully, I'll be able to get the job finished tomorrow.

Anyone at a loose end want to offer a hand, feel free - that head is going to be bloody heavy!


dont hurry for finishing quickly (you may hurt yourself) ...Good Luck!!
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Jay w on 05 October 2007, 19:57:06
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Anyway, once again, completely off track!

I am going to start removing donor head tomorrow morning. Wish me luck!  Hopefully, I'll be able to get the job finished tomorrow.

Anyone at a loose end want to offer a hand, feel free - that head is going to be bloody heavy!

i'll see you tomorrow then, what time are you starting?
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 05 October 2007, 21:38:00
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Anyway, once again, completely off track!
I am going to start removing donor head tomorrow morning. Wish me luck!  Hopefully, I'll be able to get the job finished tomorrow.

Anyone at a loose end want to offer a hand, feel free - that head is going to be bloody heavy!

Us go off track never  ;D ::)

I would offer TB.....but Sat afternoon/evenings are a good earner.... :-[

If you get stuck and still need a hand mon/tues next week.....give me a shout.....i can get the bloody school run ive been lumbered with out the way 1st thing then come over  :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 05 October 2007, 22:35:26
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Anyway, once again, completely off track!

I am going to start removing donor head tomorrow morning. Wish me luck!  Hopefully, I'll be able to get the job finished tomorrow.

Anyone at a loose end want to offer a hand, feel free - that head is going to be bloody heavy!

i'll see you tomorrow then, what time are you starting?
When I get my backside out of the pit...  ...need to nip to shop and buy some bacon for some sarnies as well - meant to go tonight but was persuaded to go to pub instead ::)

10ish?
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: hotel21 on 05 October 2007, 22:41:25
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10ish?

Didn't know you could play.....  [/Sean Connery mode]   ;D   ;D  
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 05 October 2007, 23:00:43
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The embarrassing thing is, AA is much, much fitter than I am, and I'm very, very nearly half his age (in 2004 I was half his age)...

Nahhh.....Challenge AA to a game of golf next week.....i'd bet you'd win  ;D :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 05 October 2007, 23:03:26
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The embarrassing thing is, AA is much, much fitter than I am, and I'm very, very nearly half his age (in 2004 I was half his age)...

Nahhh.....Challenge AA to a game of golf next week.....i'd bet you'd win  ;D :y
esp as my last round was an 86 :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: hotel21 on 05 October 2007, 23:06:12
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The embarrassing thing is, AA is much, much fitter than I am, and I'm very, very nearly half his age (in 2004 I was half his age)...

Nahhh.....Challenge AA to a game of golf next week.....i'd bet you'd win  ;D :y
esp as my last round was an 86 :y

9 hole course, once round??   :P
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 05 October 2007, 23:08:20
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The embarrassing thing is, AA is much, much fitter than I am, and I'm very, very nearly half his age (in 2004 I was half his age)...

Nahhh.....Challenge AA to a game of golf next week.....i'd bet you'd win  ;D :y
esp as my last round was an 86 :y

I would have been 2 years old....
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 05 October 2007, 23:08:29
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Quote
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The embarrassing thing is, AA is much, much fitter than I am, and I'm very, very nearly half his age (in 2004 I was half his age)...

Nahhh.....Challenge AA to a game of golf next week.....i'd bet you'd win  ;D :y
esp as my last round was an 86 :y

 :o The most ive ever got stung for was about 30 in the pub for a round  ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 06 October 2007, 09:56:22
Right, just going out to start. Wish me luck.
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Golfbuddy on 06 October 2007, 10:24:30
Good luck TB.  :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Martin_1962 on 06 October 2007, 13:15:40
Good luck see you when you get back
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Jay w on 06 October 2007, 23:15:57
not long got back from TB's, i'll let him explain where he is with the tractor......

was good to meet up with Tunnie and Omegatoy, thanks for the laughs guys....

Couldn't believe it i got shot by that tensioner  :o
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: IrmscherKris on 06 October 2007, 23:23:20
Come on TB, sat on the edge of my chair here....  :)
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: hotel21 on 06 October 2007, 23:24:13
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Come on TB, sat on the edge of my chair here....  :)

Me too also.....   ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: VXL V6 on 06 October 2007, 23:39:15
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Come on TB, sat on the edge of my chair here....  :)

Me too also.....   ;D

I think everyone is!!!
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2007, 12:00:06
Yes, I can confirm that Jay W got shot by an out-of-control tensioner  :o

I can also confirm my garage door still works, despite being stripped for parts, and ground down to make a special 'tensioner release tool'  :o - I tried to object, but Jay W held me back whilst Omegatoy played with the grinder!


OK, we didn't get the job done, ran out of time, but we had a bloody good laugh :y

Also met pscocoa for the first time :D, trying (very unsuccessfully) to pair his CID  :'(. Flattened his battery in the process  :-[

Tunnie showed up, as he does, and obviously received lots of abuse ;D

After, Tunnie and I went for a couple of beers and a curry.  And I finished the evening off when I got home with a small journey around Scotland's distilleries, which is why I'm a bit slow today...

I write up a fuller report when I get a mo, but just wanted to say thanks to Jay W and Omegatoy for there help yesterday.
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2007, 22:24:19
Yesterday, Jay W came over for the day.  We managed to get the donor head off, and think we found why that wasn't running too well - the chain guide was Donald Duck'd and one of the guides was in several pieces.

It was good to be able to practice on the donor, as it had more room around it. Very handy.

Omegatoy turned up, and helped strip my garage door to bits the orignal engine down.  We managed to get the head off just as it got dark (and didn't see the CTS still connected, which I then had to repair).

With the old head off, it was too dark to refit.


Omegatoy popped over again today, and helped pop the donor head on the car, and get the chain back on.

After he left, I bolted the manifold to the turbo, did up the small bolts around timing cover, popped the vac on, and the rocker cover.


My biggest concern is that the cam chain sprocket has not key. Very strange. Nothing to stop it spinning other than its a tappered shaft.
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 October 2007, 22:30:30
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My biggest concern is that the cam chain sprocket has not key. Very strange. Nothing to stop it spinning other than its a tappered shaft.

The Ford Zetec has this type of arrangement on the cam sprockets. On the plus side, it allows for infinite adjustment. On the down side, it doesn't give a lot of confidence that it isn't going to adjust itself on the fly. :o Needless to say I fitted dowels to mine.

Glad to hear you seem to have made plenty of progress, and have found the issue with the donor engine. Any sign of an explanation for the original engine's thirst for coolant?

Kevin
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2007, 22:36:16
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Any sign of an explanation for the original engine's thirst for coolant?
Yup.

Hopefully the replacement head should cure the issue.
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: ffcgary1 on 07 October 2007, 22:39:08
Perhaps tb does not want to tell us why it liked a drink, but we all know dont we children!!!! ;D ::)
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2007, 22:40:21
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Perhaps tb does not want to tell us why it liked a drink, but we all know dont we children!!!! ;D ::)
What was it then ;D
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 October 2007, 06:03:25
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Perhaps tb does not want to tell us why it liked a drink, but we all know dont we children!!!! ;D ::)
What was it then ;D

Some sort of channel/crack in the head?

I hope not, because if so I think I owe you a pint  ::)
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 08 October 2007, 09:44:26
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Perhaps tb does not want to tell us why it liked a drink, but we all know dont we children!!!! ;D ::)
What was it then ;D

Some sort of channel/crack in the head?

I hope not, because if so I think I owe you a pint  ::)
I haven't looked that closely tbh.

In all fairness, its not 100% conclusive what failed.  You can see where its failed, and in more than 1 place.

Additionally, I cannot see inside precombustion chambers to check there.

Oddly, Jay_W and I reckon that head has been off very recently.


However:
When we took it off (it was getting dark, so light not ideal for inspection), both Jay_W and I though HG was the cause.

In the clear light of day, Omegatoy and I inspected it further, and the head is a bit pitted.  This looks to be around 3 pistons (2, 4, and 5), with 2 being the worse.  We are thinking along the lines it overheated, perhaps damaging HG and head, and someone simply replaced HG. Remember, there is a lot of docs that say this head cannot be skimmed.  Its possible of course, the overheating cause HG to fail, which was replaced, but root cause of cooling issue not resolved, so overheated again and destroyed new HG.  We also suspect that the last HG wasn't fitted correctly.


We had some discussion of which head to refit, and we decided to go with the donor one.


I'll try and get some piccies up later.
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 08 October 2007, 13:34:51
Right, a little update.

Got it all back together enough to get it started (without any of the intake on, so sucking fresh air), to warm it up as per the head bolt instructions.  Runs pretty well (obviously noisy with egr and intake missing). Got it up to fans coming on temp. Now need to let it cool for 4hrs to do the head bolts another 90 degrees.

Whilst waiting for it to cool, I need to fix some fuel leaks.  Need to nip to Bicester to buy some more copper washers for the injectors, and get some more Forte Cooling flush. May as well buy some leak off pipe tubing as well, as the boost pressure sensor pipe is looking knackered.

Got some more engine oil flush from Omegatoy just to help clean the innards, so hopefully run that through again.


Looking good, as the cooling system did not overpressurise, though the test will be when I take it for a spin tonight or tomorrow, depending how I get on...
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: hotel21 on 08 October 2007, 13:40:23
Sounds encouraging, TB.  Hopefully it will run sweet as a nut by the time its all back together properly.

Well done to all....     :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Markie on 08 October 2007, 13:43:23
sounds like a good weekend, looking good now though, everything crossed on this one  :)
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Auto Addict on 08 October 2007, 16:49:09
Fingers crossed :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Dazzler on 08 October 2007, 18:09:31
Good job done by the sounds of it, keep it up :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Jimbob on 08 October 2007, 19:30:08
Sounds as if you may be nearly there!

Time to resurrect the forums longest thread?

 :y
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 08 October 2007, 19:34:15
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Sounds as if you may be nearly there!

Time to resurrect the forums longest thread?

 :y
that thread is no longer valid, as that was engine change.  hence new head swap thread.

maybe time for another project tb2 update thread.
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 October 2007, 19:49:29
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Quote
Sounds as if you may be nearly there!

Time to resurrect the forums longest thread?

 :y
that thread is no longer valid, as that was engine change.  hence new head swap thread.

maybe time for another project tb2 update thread.


So who is Brains and who is Virgil?
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: CaptainZok on 08 October 2007, 19:51:47
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Quote
Sounds as if you may be nearly there!

Time to resurrect the forums longest thread?

 :y
that thread is no longer valid, as that was engine change.  hence new head swap thread.

maybe time for another project tb2 update thread.
I thought this was TB2
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/CaptainZok/TB2.jpg)
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 08 October 2007, 20:15:23
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Quote
Quote
Sounds as if you may be nearly there!

Time to resurrect the forums longest thread?

 :y
that thread is no longer valid, as that was engine change.  hence new head swap thread.

maybe time for another project tb2 update thread.
I thought this was TB2
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/CaptainZok/TB2.jpg)
No, thats the rather nice Thrashmobile...  ...an excellent little motor.
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: justme on 08 October 2007, 22:32:27
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Yesterday, Jay W came over for the day.  We managed to get the donor head off, and think we found why that wasn't running too well - the chain guide was Donald Duck'd and one of the guides was in several pieces.

It was good to be able to practice on the donor, as it had more room around it. Very handy.

Omegatoy turned up, and helped strip my garage door to bits the orignal engine down.  We managed to get the head off just as it got dark (and didn't see the CTS still connected, which I then had to repair).

With the old head off, it was too dark to refit.


Omegatoy popped over again today, and helped pop the donor head on the car, and get the chain back on.

After he left, I bolted the manifold to the turbo, did up the small bolts around timing cover, popped the vac on, and the rocker cover.


My biggest concern is that the cam chain sprocket has not key. Very strange. Nothing to stop it spinning other than its a tappered shaft.


You should have no concern about your sprocket, just make sure the tapers are clean, done properly it will never spin on the taper. peoples perhaps do not realise how much thier lives depend on tapers.
Title: Re: Project Tractor Head Swap
Post by: TheBoy on 08 October 2007, 22:34:03
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Quote
Yesterday, Jay W came over for the day.  We managed to get the donor head off, and think we found why that wasn't running too well - the chain guide was Donald Duck'd and one of the guides was in several pieces.

It was good to be able to practice on the donor, as it had more room around it. Very handy.

Omegatoy turned up, and helped strip my garage door to bits the orignal engine down.  We managed to get the head off just as it got dark (and didn't see the CTS still connected, which I then had to repair).

With the old head off, it was too dark to refit.


Omegatoy popped over again today, and helped pop the donor head on the car, and get the chain back on.

After he left, I bolted the manifold to the turbo, did up the small bolts around timing cover, popped the vac on, and the rocker cover.


My biggest concern is that the cam chain sprocket has not key. Very strange. Nothing to stop it spinning other than its a tappered shaft.


You should have no concern about your sprocket, just make sure the tapers are clean, done properly it will never spin on the taper. peoples perhaps do not realise how much thier lives depend on tapers.
Yup, subsequently found out this is fairly common.  Still concerns me though.