Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Don9247 on 22 January 2008, 15:38:30
-
Hi guys quick bit of advice befor i start stripping.
I was sitting at th lights waiting to turn right then all of a sudden car startst making real horrible chugging noise and a rather large knocking noise and the engine doesnt want to stay running then died, started again and pullled up ontothe side of the road,
When i start the engine it starts fine but very rough and the knocking is straight away and very load coming from the right hand side of the engine when in fornt of it, when you rev it just gets louder and so does he knock,
Have heard this sound before when I changed the cambelt on a vectra 1.8 and didnt have it timed properly and when started made the same sort of noise.
Now guys what should I do, do you think maybe my cambelt slipped on one side and that is the problem or do you think something has physically broken inside the engine and I should remove the heads.
any help would be much apprieciated.
also I will need a cam locking kit any ideas where to buy a decent one.
Many Thanks
Don
-
Hi Don
It does sound like the cambelt has slipped, the best thing to do is strip the cambelt covers off and check the timing, if your lucky the belt might have only slipped a couple of teeth and not bent any valves but by the way you describe the noise it doesn't sound good :(
-
thats what i was thinking as the car still runs thanks i shall checek the timing and let u no
-
car will start first time but very rough no warning lights on dash bu still knocking noise used a screewdriver to see where noise is comin from and is definatly on the right hand side near the front at the top need to take my air filter system out to check the timing. i will keep you all updated
Don
-
If it were me, I would not want to turn that engine over until the covers have been removed and the cam belt inspected.
A failing idler bearing can make a lot of noise, if it lets the belt slip or come off...........
-
where can I get the v6 cambelt dovdeee from.
don
-
Also anyone near my area that has the locking kit avalible for loan I am willing to leave a deposit.
Don
-
Ok had a quick look got the cover off and looking at it it looks like the right hand bank is out by Cam 3 out by 1 to 2 teeth cam 4 out by 2/3teeth,
I cant re time it yet as I dont have a locking kit,
Spoke to my local SC motor factors they have one for £65+vat has anyone ever seen these kits and no wether they are any good or not.
ManyThanks Don
-
Regarding V6 timing kits we have had issues with Laser timing kits being inaccurately made so they don't fit properly. AFAIK all other makes do the job, some better than others.
Kevin
-
When the cams are secured I would check the idler bearings very carefully, something must have permitted slack to allow the timing to change.
Unless it was set up wrongly before.
-
There is a well known Vauxhall spares company that hires the locking kits but I cant for the life of me remember the name. Anyone?
-
Right quite deserate now.
Have retimed the engine bought the laser kit which worked very well for me all the parts fitted and lined up well, put everything back and started it, now the noise was quiter but the tapping was still quite appernt and when you revved slightly just got worse and louder,
took everyhing back off again, started to take the cam covers off the right hand side when in front of the car took the sparkys out and took the fuse out for fuel pum as the plenum and intake manifold was now removed, and turned the engine over now as the engine is urning over i cant hear the noise and all the cams where moving easily and oil was comin out so i now thought ok put the spark plugs back in to put the compression back and turned the engine over again but still i couldnt hear the knocking or tapping, so im really not sure what to look for next, so shoul i remove this head and see if there is anything there or do you think i am wasting my time i would have thought if it was a bent valve i would hear the knocking even whille turning the engine over.
i dont know some one please help me im gonna cry soon :'( :'(
-
There is a well known Vauxhall spares company that hires the locking kits but I cant for the life of me remember the name. Anyone?
for future reference it is Autovaux.
-
ill b damned im sure ive just found half a collet in the plenum!
looks like s valve has come lose.
does anyone know where i can get a single collet?
many thanks don
-
Is the other collet still holding the cap on top of the valve spring?
There is a high risk of that valve dropping into the cylinder if it becomes displaced.
I have seen an adaptor that screws into the spark plug hole to allow compressed air to hold a valve closed while removing springs.
Never tried it though, normally it's head off.
-
I'd say if the collet has come out, it's probably because there was valve to piston contact and it shocked it out of the groove in the valve stem. Not sure how it ended up there but I suspect you may have some damage that needs to be investigated. You could have other bits loose which will do more damage :-/
I think, unfortunately, the heads may have to come off. :'(
If you need more justification, try a compression test.
Kevin
-
im just trying to figure out why and what caused the problem seeing as my timing was correctly setup what would have suddenly caused the engine to break at tick over, and the engine still runs just now with a knocking noise,
The valve lenght is 92mm according to haynes and the bore stroke is only 86 mm so the valve will never actually fall into the piston chamber but it is continually ontop off the piston being pushed up and down through each and obviously when the engine is running the piston is hitting the valve up quicker than it can fall down, i think that why the noise can be heard wth the ebgine running but when you just turn the engine over with no spark plugs in it doesnt knock because the engine is still spinning slow enough for the valve to just rest on it during the stroke.
-
If the valve is no longer retained and is being moved by the piston, you have no choice but to remove the head, that valve stem is almost certainly bent.
Do I recall earlier in the thread you said the timing was found a few teeth out?
-
The valves are at a suitably acute angle with respect to the cylinder that they'll get chewed up rather than just bob up and down on top of the piston.
If the cams were out by 2 or 3 teeth in the wrong direction that may have been enough. Maybe the collet just failed :-/
I'd do a compression test, just to verify that you do have something seriously wrong. I suspect you'll find a cylinder with no compression if so, and you'll know it needs to come apart.
Bear in mind that the lifters are often noisy after a cam belt change, and take a little while to quieten down. Your noises sound more serious than this, though.
Kevin
-
FOUND THE EFFFIN CULPRIT
on th middle cylinder on the righ bank on the two inlet valve the ends of the valve guides have snapped off also only one valve has bent my piston has some squished metal marks NO SCORING WAHOOO
and so does the head have some squish marks.
Now heres the question how do i get the two valve guides out? and the two new ones in.?
Many Thanks Don
-
Now heres the question how do i get the two valve guides out? and the two new ones in.?
I would have thought it'd need a press. I've always taken heads to an engine specialist for this type of surgery.
So, the piece in the plenum was a bit of valve guide? Makes a bit more sense. I'd give the rest of that engine a very careful check, obviously. What's happened to one cylinder may have happened to the others.
Any evidence of what caused it? Was the cam belt or one of the tensioners damaged? Are there any witness marks on the other pistons to indicate contact with the valves?
Kevin
-
Every other piston and valve is fine, had the valves out now 1 is bent the othr is fine the are both inlet and both the bottoms of the guides have come off , now my theoy is this engina had a cambelt go onit at some point and some has replaced it and change the head gasket and what not as it all looks clean I suspect they just changed the bent valves and not the guides. now the valve guide has after a few thousand miles has acutually broken from the damage caused in the past.
well theroy anyway as belt and tesioners are fine.
Head is now in machine shop getting the old valves out and new ones in also having the others checekd and replacing anything that needs to be. so monday get my head back now i have to find the time to fit it.!
Hw do i add images?
-
I guess so. If one inlet valve was damaged without the other (since they open together) it was probably wedged open by a bit of debris, got lumped by the piston and the debris then flew up into the plenum.
Good to know it's salvageable with a little work though. :y
kevin
-
Its my baby I have to fix it lol ! :y