Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Timbuk on 08 October 2007, 21:11:34
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Am i right in saying a 2000 ' x ' plate veccy 2.2 petrol has a timing chain and not a belt and if so are they still 40,000/ 4 years. I think the mother in law is about to get a big bill :-/
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Well there is a big poster in our local Vx Dealer saying 40,000 miles or 4years, so I assume that it must mean all across the Vauxhall Range..
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Not sure m8.......if a belt.......yes 40k will be the change time....chain...should be good for life :y
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Moving to chat, as not an Omega
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My old man has an 02 2.2 and it is fitted with a lifetime timing chain :y
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2.2 Veccys and Astras are chains. Omega 2.2 is belt
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I dont understand how a chain can last the 'lifetime' of the enging, unless they define the life as the time it remains intact...
It will still stretch and distort over time, regardless...
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2.2 Veccys and Astras are chains. Omega 2.2 is belt
I know. It's not fair :'(
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My old man has an 02 2.2 and it is fitted with a lifetime timing chain :y
Is this the lifetime chain that is only covered for 5 years or 60,000 :-/
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My old man has an 02 2.2 and it is fitted with a lifetime timing chain :y
Is this the lifetime chain that is only covered for 5 years or 60,000 :-/
IIRC he had it fitted after a Vx recall and it was upgraded to a chain - could be wrong though :-X
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Yes its a chain, but there is a recall on them but unsure of what years it covers, some internet research to be done i think..
Even so the uprated chain is still only rated at 100k
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Generally, on other cars, the chains are good for 100 - 150k.
The 120k chains on my tractor look pretty good. The chains on the donor engine were well worn.
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Yes its a chain, but there is a recall on them but unsure of what years it covers, some internet research to be done i think..
Even so the uprated chain is still only rated at 100k
Have been looking on other sites, but none the wiser really, have picked up the 5 years 60k bit, but there again i thought it had a belt :-/
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Looked into this a bit ago,
There is no recall as such, just a field remedy (1532) stating what they replace in event of failure....
Basically the lube nozzle for the chain gets clogged, chain gets noisy as not enough oil, then snaps.
There is a bolt you can check, if it has notches on the corners you should be ok.
Was on car up to middle of 51 reg I think.
Loads of info here : http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/showthread.php?t=122350
and here : http://www.z22se.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=22
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tuppence worth...Mercedes suggest chains good for 100k.
Why did vx put a chain in that car as theres very few others that have chains...our old 2.0 x plate was belt and my current 2.6 02 plate is belt driven :-/
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Nissan Micras tend to eat chains, and wear out the sprockets as well. They claim it was poor lub that caused it, but poss just cheap components.
Ken
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Chain driven cams is the new norm on all new designs (1.0, 1.2, 2.2, 2.8.....).
I personaly prefer belts becasue you know where you are with them.
The 2.2 did have problems with chain lubrication on the early engines.....
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My "old-skool" duplex chain fitted to the V8 engine in my BMW looks like it could have come from the back wheel of my R1 ;) I've never heard of one of these failing or even stretching enough to noticably affect the timing. It's the same V8 block used in the 540i and 740i from around 94 or 95 onwards, and there are lots of these (especially the 7) in the US at well over 200k miles! I'd have serious doubts that a modern GM chain would last that long however...
Saying that I heard that the newer BMW V8s use a simplex chain, which I can only presume is yet another side effect of the Bangle cost-cutting era, it remains to be seen whether any of these models get anywhere near 200k miles on the original chain as they get older ::)
I'd still rather have a properly designed chain every time. On the Omega with it's 40,000 mile belt change intervals, and no shortage of stories of the tensioners failing before that, I'm starting to get concerned that I may be one of the unlucky ones as mine approaches 25k since the last change. OK I could just change it early for piece of mind, but a safety margin of 25k between full cambelt kit changes is a bit of a joke on a modern car. At least with most other cars with conservative 80k intervals you can still change it at 60k leaving a large safety margin and it's not such a big deal.
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The chain on my donor engine is well worn, hence why it looks like it slipped. Cost in bits to replace is approx £500 done properly, and lots and lots of labour (head off, sump off).
I'm bloody glad my V6 has a belt, and wasn't designed by the same pillock BMW used to design the tractor.
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The chain on my donor engine is well worn, hence why it looks like it slipped. Cost in bits to replace is approx £500 done properly, and lots and lots of labour (head off, sump off).
Most likely it's suffered some pretty major abuse, i.e. total lack of oil changes. I'd expect the rest of the engine is pretty knackered too.
I'm bloody glad my V6 has a belt, and wasn't designed by the same pillock BMW used to design the tractor.
Yes, it's a wonderful design... takes about 3 hours to get to the thermostat, over an hour to change the plugs and leads, the DIS pack round the back of the engine, likewise the HBV, the crank sensor that's routed right next to the exhaust meaning it's almost guaranteed to fail ::)
Absolutely genius design these Omegas ;D
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I haven't got this car back yet as it is in the bodyshop having some repairs done, all this has happened while it has been there and they have told the Mother in Law it is going to cost 2 grand as it needs a new engine, from what i can gather in Mother in Laws Mechanically minded speech is that something has happened to the chain and fooked the head. Ive just told her to get it back asap and not let them touch it, ( its at the VX Stealers by the way ) and we can have a look at it when it comes back. Time to PX it against a nice Meega me thinks ::)
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.........Absolutely genius design these Omegas ;D
Agreed.
Also no gearbox dip stick on those cars with the prefered gearbox! ;D ;D ;D
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The chain on my donor engine is well worn, hence why it looks like it slipped. Cost in bits to replace is approx £500 done properly, and lots and lots of labour (head off, sump off).
Most likely it's suffered some pretty major abuse, i.e. total lack of oil changes. I'd expect the rest of the engine is pretty knackered too.
Surprisingly, no. In the later part of its life, it had 1k oil changes. The bores look in pretty good nick.
I'm bloody glad my V6 has a belt, and wasn't designed by the same pillock BMW used to design the tractor.
Yes, it's a wonderful design... takes about 3 hours to get to the thermostat, over an hour to change the plugs and leads, the DIS pack round the back of the engine, likewise the HBV, the crank sensor that's routed right next to the exhaust meaning it's almost guaranteed to fail ::)
Absolutely genius design these Omegas ;D
Still a huge improvement in:
Having to remove rad to change alternator
Having to remove starter motor to insert crank lock
Having to remove viscous, cowling, and all air intake to do absolutely anything.
I could go on and on ;)
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.........Absolutely genius design these Omegas ;D
Agreed.
Also no gearbox dip stick on those cars with the prefered gearbox! ;D ;D ;D
Yep, I can say I don't need a dipstick for my proper gearbox, most likely because it doesn't need any maintenance whatsoever and will probably still outlast both the engine and the tinworm on the chassis. I can definitely say this is one part the GM engineers got right :y
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Timbok, go all the way, check those links, Vauxhall should pay if you quote field remedy 1532 at them, may take some arguing though, free repairs run till end of 2007 I beleive.
"Vauxhall TIS
Field Remedy: 1532
Subject: Engine Z22SE - Broken Timing Chain
Models: Engines: Option:
Astra-G 2000...2002,VX220 2000...2002,Speedster 2000...2002,Zafira 2000...2002,Vectra-B 2000...2001 Z22SE,Z22SE,Z22SE,Z22SE,Z22SE
Complaint: Engine damaged by broken timing chain.
Cause: Missing or unsufficient lubrication of the timing chain.
Production: Modified timing chain and lubrication nozzle have been introduced in production as of the following engine-No: 11065400 (March 2002).
Remedy:
Note: Please check first if the car is included in Service Campaign 03-P-24.
In case of customer complaint please use for the necessary repair the timing
chain kit. This kit contains the modified timing chain and lubrication nozzle.
Note: This Quick Information is valid for all Z22SE engines upon customer
complaint.
Spare-Parts: Qty: Part-No.: Catalog-No.:
Timing Chain Repair Kit 1 12577385 56 36 400
Gasket, Cover, Oil Pump 1 90537915 06 46 295
Gasket, Cylinder Head Cover 1 90537319 06 07 494
Gasket, Oil Pump to Cylinder Block 1 24435052 06 46 902
Seal, Ring, Crankshaft Front 1 90571925 06 38 199
Screw, Hex. HD., Damper to Crankshaft 1 90537363 06 14 927
Labour Times: TC: Hours:
U3 153 20 Install timing chain service kit Astra G, 92 3.0
Astra G Coupe, Astra G Convertible
U3 153 21 Install timing chain service kit Zafira A 92 3.3
U3 153 22 Install timing chain service kit 92 3.7
Vectra B (w/o A/C)
001 Additional work Vectra B(with Air Condition) 92 1.1
U3 153 23 Install timing chain service kit 92 4.6
Speedster, VX220
U3 153 24 Repair engine 92
The costs for this repair will be covered for vehicles until 31.12.2007 and
a mileage lower than 100.000 Km.
The regular warranty procedure should be used for claiming Set-up-time.
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Still a huge improvement in:
Having to remove rad to change alternator
Having to remove starter motor to insert crank lock
Having to remove viscous, cowling, and all air intake to do absolutely anything.
I could go on and on ;)
I can't speak for the tractor, in fact I'd hazard a guess that the BMW tractor is actually rather crap as far as tractors go. They only started taking smoke machines seriously towards the end of the 90s.
But their V8 at least is far better designed than the GM V6 as far as maintenance goes. 8 plugs *and coil packs* that can be changed in half the time it takes to do 6 plugs only on the Omega -- double that if you want to change the DIS pack, a thermostat that can be changed in a tenth of the time, two heater bypass valves that can theoretically be changed in 10 minutes (although I haven't had to do it), a crank sensor that could be changed in 10 minutes but will probably never need changed because it doesn't get fried by the exhaust, etc etc...... Oh and not forgetting a timing chain that has been repeatedly proven to be good for well over 200,000 miles (some over 300,000 miles!) without a hint of trouble :y
When I first got a V8 I was quite worried that it would be beyond my maintenance capabilities even for relatively minor jobs, but with hindsight I'm glad my first "big" engine wasn't a GM V6 or I'd probably be sworn to inline-4s for life ;D
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... but if the Nikasil bores go west you've had it. :-X
Granted there are issues with some of the ancillaries on the GM V6 and no quad cam engine is that easy to work on. However, with decent maintenance you're unlikely to ever need to do major surgery.
Kevin
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Timbok, go all the way, check those links, Vauxhall should pay if you quote field remedy 1532 at them, may take some arguing though, free repairs run till end of 2007 I beleive.
"Vauxhall TIS
Field Remedy: 1532
Subject: Engine Z22SE - Broken Timing Chain
Models: Engines: Option:
Astra-G 2000...2002,VX220 2000...2002,Speedster 2000...2002,Zafira 2000...2002,Vectra-B 2000...2001 Z22SE,Z22SE,Z22SE,Z22SE,Z22SE
Complaint: Engine damaged by broken timing chain.
Cause: Missing or unsufficient lubrication of the timing chain.
Production: Modified timing chain and lubrication nozzle have been introduced in production as of the following engine-No: 11065400 (March 2002).
Remedy:
Note: Please check first if the car is included in Service Campaign 03-P-24.
In case of customer complaint please use for the necessary repair the timing
chain kit. This kit contains the modified timing chain and lubrication nozzle.
Note: This Quick Information is valid for all Z22SE engines upon customer
complaint.
Spare-Parts: Qty: Part-No.: Catalog-No.:
Timing Chain Repair Kit 1 12577385 56 36 400
Gasket, Cover, Oil Pump 1 90537915 06 46 295
Gasket, Cylinder Head Cover 1 90537319 06 07 494
Gasket, Oil Pump to Cylinder Block 1 24435052 06 46 902
Seal, Ring, Crankshaft Front 1 90571925 06 38 199
Screw, Hex. HD., Damper to Crankshaft 1 90537363 06 14 927
Labour Times: TC: Hours:
U3 153 20 Install timing chain service kit Astra G, 92 3.0
Astra G Coupe, Astra G Convertible
U3 153 21 Install timing chain service kit Zafira A 92 3.3
U3 153 22 Install timing chain service kit 92 3.7
Vectra B (w/o A/C)
001 Additional work Vectra B(with Air Condition) 92 1.1
U3 153 23 Install timing chain service kit 92 4.6
Speedster, VX220
U3 153 24 Repair engine 92
The costs for this repair will be covered for vehicles until 31.12.2007 and
a mileage lower than 100.000 Km.
The regular warranty procedure should be used for claiming Set-up-time.
Cheers Jimbob ;)