Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: GrayUK on 23 February 2008, 14:10:51

Title: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 23 February 2008, 14:10:51
Help!

I have a problem that has developed over the last 2 weeks.
I have an Omega Estate 2.2 (2001) model. (post facelift)
The alarm keeps going off, no reason I can see.
I have disabled the internal cabin sensors and it still does it.

But….not all the time.

If I go for a run it will do it, maybe 3 times then after 1 hour or so I can set it and no problem? :o

1)      Any ideas what to look for?
2)      Can I disable the alarm but still lock the car?
Some guidance would be gratefully received. :y
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: VXL V6 on 23 February 2008, 14:15:47
Very likely top be the bonnet switch. Try disconnecting it and seeing if it still does it.

Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 23 February 2008, 14:18:09
I will go and do it now, it has gon off twice since i posted  >:(
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 23 February 2008, 14:21:09
Many thanks for the fast feedback, i have done it, so we will see  :-/
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 23 February 2008, 14:23:20
No sooner had i posted and it went off!!! :'(

Any other suggestions....please
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 23 February 2008, 16:17:15
OK....removed the tailgate switch and ....it has not gone off yet... :D
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: Debs. on 23 February 2008, 16:25:22
This might be a Power Sounder fault; that would cause the alarm to go off at any time; with the alarm set or not. (sometimes even when driving).....this 'spontaneous' activation would be typical of the Power Sounder being faulty.

The Power sounder has it`s own internal NiCad batteries and when they become aged this fault can occur.
It would need removal and/or replacement.....`when I found how expensive they were I removed mine.

However, there may be potential insurance-cover consequences if a claim were made and it was discovered that the alarm system sounder had been so-inactivated. Although the indicator lights still flash when the alarm goes off and the immobiliser operation is unaffected by the change to the alarm.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: MutantCav on 23 February 2008, 16:29:23
Where is the power sounder located?? Somewhere near the double horn things??
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: Debs. on 23 February 2008, 16:39:35
It`s in a pokey 'dark hole' bolted to the the rear-face of the front off-side suspension turret.

It`s effectively down-under the plastic scuttle (driver`s side) below the wiper linkage: I presume it`s there to make access tricky for 'casual thieves'.

Its a bugger to get at and really you have to remove the wiper arm and lift the plastic scuttle up to get your hand in....I cheated and bent the scuttle tray back just enough to get my little 'paws' in there and pull off the wires/unbolt the (single) alarm-horn and the black box-like power sounder.....

The two horns under the wings/bumper are the 'road horns' and can be left alone as they`re not connected to the alarm system.
You have to do the battery disconnect within 15 seconds of turning off the ignition thing before working on the alarm system horn disconnect.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: MutantCav on 23 February 2008, 16:56:45
Is it the same pre/post facelift?
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: VXL V6 on 23 February 2008, 17:00:46
Yes. Hidden down underneath the Scuttle panel as Debs says.

When you set the alarm does the lamp flash slow or fast?

Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 23 February 2008, 17:04:27
Have not noticed the speed of the flash. Do you mean once it is set or during the 10 seconds or so?
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: VXL V6 on 23 February 2008, 17:09:12
First ten seconds. if it flashes fast there is a fault in the system.

First thing to try would be to disconnect the power sounder as Debs said.

Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estage 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 23 February 2008, 18:36:09
Deb and guys, thanks for your input.
Since I removed the tailgate switch it is quiet. :-?

But tomorrow will tell, when I take it out for a run, and then park up.
I will let you know how it goes, otherwise I will be into the power sounder :-/
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: davlad22 on 23 February 2008, 20:41:39
The tailgate switch on one of our estates is very sensitive as well, you only have to try and pop the boot when the car is locked and it goes off. Anti theft device at the moment but have a feeling it could get to be an annoyance device if it plays up!
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 24 February 2008, 19:21:34
OK…update on the tailgate switch.
After I disconnected it I had no more alarms yesterday or through the night. :)
Took it for a run today, parked up, no alarms for 1 hour or so, went back to the car, unlocked, then locked it, 5mins later ….you guessed…the alarm went off. :'(
Since then I have ad 2 other runs and she has now been parked up for 2 hours with no false alarms. :o
So it is a bit unsure at the moment. :-/
I will update as this unfolds.
A friend of mine recons it could be an ECU problem because all the alarms on the Omegas are linked through it….any thoughts on that?
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: Debs. on 24 February 2008, 20:46:07
Your friend may know more than I do about any ECU/alarm linkage situation.....but, my money`s still on a Power Sounder fault.....`had it twice on two different cars (with slightly different symptoms/false-alarm circumstances).  ;)
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 24 February 2008, 20:52:58
Well 3.5 hrs since it was locked...and it has just gone off :'(

So i am going to be going in to the power sounder soon.

Debs, this powersounder, can i remove it?
Can it be opened and the batteries replaced? :question
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: VXL V6 on 24 February 2008, 20:55:06
Powersounder is sealed but can be cut open. Probably not worth it though as batteries are hard to obtain.

Also, the Batteries tend to leak over the circuit board rendering it beyond economic repair.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 24 February 2008, 21:01:30
What sort of batteries are they?
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: Debs. on 24 February 2008, 21:13:24
Yes you may remove it completely.....its a black moulded plastic 'box' (approx 75mm x 75 mm x 90 mm) with a wiring socket on the back face and a sound outlet-horn on the opposite face.

The NiCad batts. are moulded into the rubbery-plastic resin of the body side; on mine in fact they were clearly visible (as normal 'AA' rechargables; the sort with solder tags on each end) within the moulded resin, as they were very-near the surface.

I too thought about digging in there to try and extract/swap the batteries....but the way they`re moulded-into semi-hard resin didn`t inspire confidence of success.

I was quoted £125. for a 'New' Vx Power Sounder.....a scrapper might be as bad as a faulty-one I thought.....hence my Omega now has it removed for good.

BEFORE disconnecting the Power Sounder from the loom you MUST observe the proceedure: ignition-on, then ignition-off, then disconnect the +ve. battery terminal within 15 seconds.....`gotta be quick, so I (slightly) loosened the +ve. terminal bolt first, to make it a faster job.

I also removed the metal-bracketed alarm sounder for good measure; that`s mounted right next to the power sounder.

You`ll need to re-enter the code your radio afterwards when you reconnect, so make certain you have the Carpass radio number if it`s a factory head-unit.

I got revenge on the Power Sounder; `blinkin thing tried to have the last word and 'went off' in my hand as I carried it to the workshop.....so to shut it up I dropped it in a bucket of water!.....peace and quiet; `sorted!  :y
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 24 February 2008, 21:24:16
Debs...your a star!
I will be in there tomorrow all being well.

Nicads I have no trouble getting them, try a model shop, not a toyshop.
They have hundreds of types with different capacities and reasonably cheap.

I have just been looking around and found this on a website.

Quote.
Power Sounder (next to Wiper mechanism / under scuttle plate:- Most/all? fiitted with a GM unit (pcb and batteries in a 'potting' compound) - it's 'naff'. The water drain conveniently located directly over the rear of the unit and the connector. The potting seal 'cracks' over period of time, and does an excellent job of retaining ingressed water. Remove and silicone it before it goes into 'when i feel like it - I'm gonna go off - day or night' mode. Fit a cut up coke bottle bottom over top of unit as a water deflector. Other models fitted with a Bosch unit - fails as well due to overheating batteries causing track & solder pad failure - can at least be repaired - will last forever if batteries raised away from pcb & airvents
drilled (fit the coke bottle)."

Link to website.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=437
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: Debs. on 25 February 2008, 07:40:47
Great work finding that link GrayUK: that`s a good plan for a fix!....I hadn`t thought of a Model Shop supply for NiCads; they`d be for R/C model use perhaps? :y

Just also wanted to mention the high sound-pressure level the power sounder can make; and your ears are going to be very close to it when reaching in doing this job....be careful, as permanent hearing damage is a possibility should it go off then.  :o

Good luck with the job, `let us know how you get along.  ;)
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 25 February 2008, 15:10:59
Debs
The unit is out, had to take the wiper arm off to do it.

It is the Black Bosch unit.
1st inspection it looks fine, no sign of any cracks or water ingress.
I cannot see through the material unfortunately. :(

I have left the other alarm sounder in place; I assume this is the normal alarm? If so then if the alarm goes off again I will know it is not the power sounder. (Please let me know if what I just said is right!). ::)
I am leaving it for half an hour before reconnecting the battery, I am told this clears the fault memory in the ECU.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: Debs. on 25 February 2008, 15:35:57
Yes, that sounds like a good way of identifying whether it was a Power Sounder or 'other' alarm fault.

I didn`t leave my (ordinary) alarm-sounder connected, so I can`t even say what sound that makes, for it was the power sounder that seemed to be making all the racket.  :o

The power sounder concept (I think) is purely to make a noise if a determined thief cuts the battery power to the alarm.....but time and time again I`ve seen people not even react when a car alarm sounds in a public place, so in the greater scheme of things I think alarms are often more of a nuisance than a (real) security aid.....especially when they 'false'.  :-[

I witnessed a car being broken into once; brick through window, `head-unit and briefcase out and scum-bag `away like a scalded-Gazelle; in a matter of only seconds....the blaring alarm-siren didn`t save anything.  :o

Anyway, let`s hope you`ve had your last 'false alarm' GrayUK  :y
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 25 February 2008, 16:00:21
Yes I think you are right about the power sounders function.
Well, I have taken it out for a drive and it is locked/alarmed...all quiet so far.... ::)
I will keep you updated; if the problem does turn out to be the power sounder then I will cut open the Bosch and see if I can change the batteries.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 25 February 2008, 20:18:01
4.25 hrs and still quiet...... :o
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: Debs. on 25 February 2008, 20:23:59
 ;D Don`t speak too soon; it may be waiting `till you go to bed!  ;)
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: bigall on 25 February 2008, 20:27:14
Power sounder - designed by GM to extract more money from Omega owners
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 25 February 2008, 20:27:33
Please   NO....... :'(
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 26 February 2008, 19:35:21
Well….over 24hrs now and not a false alarm … [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
Looks like Debs was on the button. ;)
Thanks to all who posted and especially to Debs who gave me the step-by-step instructions. :-*

A very thankful (and more peaceful)  8-)
Paul
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 27 February 2008, 19:15:04
Well all, 2 days now, all quiet  [smiley=beer.gif]

I will have a good hack into the power sounder to see what i find, any advice on cutting it open?
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: robbo299 on 27 February 2008, 19:31:09
Hiya, See your just around the corner from me. Regarding the power sounder... ive seen some posts where carefully cutting the case open and resealing again with super glue/tape is possible. Been there done that regarding your probs with power sounder.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 27 February 2008, 19:33:32
Thanks
I am going to give it a go and replace the batteries.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: robbo299 on 27 February 2008, 19:39:36
Got round problem of alarm going off by locking car by opening rear passenger door ( drivers side ) and pushing down drivers door locking button. Central locking activated but still allowed rear door to be closed. Only prob is no alarm. Did this for a peaceful nights sleep and to appease the neighbours. Went to local vaux dealer the other day to get some touch up paint and asked about price for new power sounder. Was quoted £68+vat. My ask to get new one fitted when car goes in for service. Does power sounder give 3 or 4 beeps when you start up after leaving car for several hours and then going on short journey? This , i am told , is a sign that the power sounder is on it's way out.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: Debs. on 27 February 2008, 19:48:11
Quote
Well….over 24hrs now and not a false alarm … [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
Looks like Debs was on the button. ;)
Thanks to all who posted and especially to Debs who gave me the step-by-step instructions. :-*

A very thankful (and more peaceful)  8-)
Paul
Hiya Paul,
That`s smashing news to read!...... ;)
You are very welcome; `delighted to help......a very welcome return to peace and quiet and a good night`s rest for you and yours.  :y

Just a thought: Why not make a how-to series of pics/instructions for repairing a Power Sounder (cutting open/replacing NiCads) and post it on the forum, so that others with similar problem-units can benefit?
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 27 February 2008, 20:06:41
Debs
Thanks again, i dont twitch anymore when i hear a car horn go off! :D

Yes i will do a repair thread with pics, good idea  :y
Robbo
I had no warning it just started doing it, once or twice to start with and then very regular. If you want to prove it is the power sounder, do what i did (follow Debs instructions) and leave the main alarm horn in place, you will know for sure then. It is easy to do with minimal tools, takes about 1/2 hour.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: robbo299 on 27 February 2008, 20:53:50
Thanx. Debs info very helpful like you said. Proved it was the power sounder so may replace unit soon. It will be intersting to see what batteries are in the unit. I have been selling watch, camera, key fob batteries etc. as a sideline for over 25 years and i know i can get hold of virtually any battery. If you do manage to get the unit apart make a note of the batteries and pm me the number/voltage etc and if you need any let me know. If i can get them i will let you know as soon as i can. Probally, as a fellow OOF member, at no charge as i order most spares for the multi national company i work for...if you know what i mean. :y
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 27 February 2008, 21:23:21
Form what Debs says they are 1.2 volt AA nicads.

Interesting choice of battery type, as these are only good for about 1000 cycles normally.
I use them all the time in RC model Jets, i look after them with a computerised charger cycler. Nicad (Nicle Cadmium) hate 'just being topped up' which is what will be happening in the power sounder. I use the computer to discharge and balance them once a month, it tells me the capacity of the cells. Once they start to drop from the stated capacity they are binned!

To be honest I am surprised they last as long as they do in they way they are used.

In the last 7 years Nicads and NiMH ( Nicle Metal Hydride) batteries have come a long way, the chances are that the ones in the sounder are as little as 600ma capacity, now you can buy the same cells (AA) with 3.5 AMP capacity. New ones are on the horizon that will give 4.5 AMP from the same size cells. If I change them I will fit higher capacity ones.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 February 2008, 21:37:54
Quote
Power sounder - designed by GM to extract more money from Omega owners

Designed by Megamos actualy and used in pretty much every exec car setup out there.....

I have said it many times.....car manufacturers make only a very small percentage of thier own parts and buy most as standard items off the shelf these days.....
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 February 2008, 21:40:36
Quote
Form what Debs says they are 1.2 volt AA nicads.

Interesting choice of battery type, as these are only good for about 1000 cycles normally.
I use them all the time in RC model Jets, i look after them with a computerised charger cycler. Nicad (Nicle Cadmium) hate 'just being topped up' which is what will be happening in the power sounder. I use the computer to discharge and balance them once a month, it tells me the capacity of the cells. Once they start to drop from the stated capacity they are binned!

To be honest I am surprised they last as long as they do in they way they are used.

In the last 7 years Nicads and NiMH ( Nicle Metal Hydride) batteries have come a long way, the chances are that the ones in the sounder are as little as 600ma capacity, now you can buy the same cells (AA) with 3.5 AMP capacity. New ones are on the horizon that will give 4.5 AMP from the same size cells. If I change them I will fit higher capacity ones.

Not AA cells, they are an industry spec sub AA type affair with anumber in series get the V's up...

They are Nicad and you cant use NiMh as the charging characteristics are different

Reality is its amazing they last as long as they do and you cant make them easy to get and change coz you wouldn't get your Thatcham approval  :-/
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: robbo299 on 27 February 2008, 22:05:52
Methinks i will splash out the spondulicks and get a replacement from local vaux dealer. I will split the old one to see what batteries do go inside. Neighbour had his Merc 4x4 stolen from outside his house last week and my Miggy was parked behind his at the time. He did get it back after a week when the police caught some scumbags using it "off road" 15 miles away. Think i had better get it sorted sooner rather than later. Only had it a couple of months and getting quite fond of it! ha ha. Plus if the worse did happen i don't know how the insurance company would react.
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: bigall on 27 February 2008, 23:02:16
iirc - doesnt a new power sounder need to be talked to by tech2
Title: Re: Alarm fault Omega Estate 2.2
Post by: GrayUK on 28 February 2008, 07:43:36
1) Sub AA do you mean AAA? They are available.
2) NmHI could be used; I charge them regularly as Nicads however it would be preferable to use Nicads. Yes the charge characteristics are different but that is only relevant if you are using a Peak Detect fast charger. I doubt if the charge to them is anything but a simple constant trickle charge.
3) I cannot imagine that a new sounder needs to be setup on Tech 2. It is nothing more than a self-contained voltage ‘watcher’. Mine is removed and the ECU does not even know.
I look forward to cutting this up now; should be fun. ::)