Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: TheBoy on 01 March 2008, 19:39:51

Title: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: TheBoy on 01 March 2008, 19:39:51
A lot of pedal travel.  I reckon I'm can get close to getting in on the boards!

Does that mean I have air in it?

I have bled it today (along with new front discs/pads), no air coming out at calipers. Air in ABS unit?

Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: tunnie on 01 March 2008, 19:42:19
you actually got any pads left?  ;)
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: VXL V6 on 01 March 2008, 19:44:48
Quote
A lot of pedal travel.  I reckon I'm can get close to getting in on the boards!

Does that mean I have air in it?

I have bled it today (along with new front discs/pads), no air coming out at calipers. Air in ABS unit?


Does the pedal feel spongy with the engine running?

Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 March 2008, 19:47:00
Have you ensured there is no air in the caliper?
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: markey mark on 01 March 2008, 19:56:39
Quote
A lot of pedal travel.  I reckon I'm can get close to getting in on the boards!

Does that mean I have air in it?

I have bled it today (along with new front discs/pads), no air coming out at calipers. Air in ABS unit?


pressure bleed was the only way i could get a pedal on one i sold bud ! :y
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: TheBoy on 01 March 2008, 20:02:22
Quote
Have you ensured there is no air in the caliper?
Not quite sure how I could have got air in calipers - I used easibleed to get the fresh fluid to calipers, then clamped hose and push caliper in to get old fluid from caliper.  At no point, afaik, could it have 'sucked' air in through nipple.  If I have got air in them, how do I clear?

Its probably more likely I let air in at res end when emptying old out - didn't think I let it get that empty, but possible I guess  :'(
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: TheBoy on 01 March 2008, 20:03:07
Quote
you actually got any pads left?  ;)
No, thats why I needed to change them. And the discs. ::)
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Jimbob on 01 March 2008, 20:04:42
Think you could find someone with a tech 2 to activate the abs, heard that can clear air  ;D
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: TheBoy on 01 March 2008, 20:10:39
Quote
Think you could find someone with a tech 2 to activate the abs, heard that can clear air  ;D
I guess that will be my next move tomorrow, unless someone else has a better idea....
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Danny on 01 March 2008, 20:13:52
pressing the correct pedal? ;D
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: achoo81 on 01 March 2008, 20:17:22
I was told by a Vx mechanic that when you change the fluid or bleed these brakes you should use the easibleed  system that uses the air in the spare tyre to bleed them NOT to use pump pedal method as the seals in the master cylinder and the rest of the system dont like it. Also  bleed them starting from the furthest nipple away from the master cylinder and finish at the closest to it.
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: TheBoy on 01 March 2008, 20:36:19
Quote
I was told by a Vx mechanic that when you change the fluid or bleed these brakes you should use the easibleed  system that uses the air in the spare tyre to bleed them NOT to use pump pedal method as the seals in the master cylinder and the rest of the system dont like it. Also  bleed them starting from the furthest nipple away from the master cylinder and finish at the closest to it.
This is first time I've ever used easibleed on Omega, and this happens.  Every other Omega I've always done the old fashioned way, with much better success!
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: achoo81 on 01 March 2008, 20:45:20
If you use the easibleed again make sure you have at least 30psi in the wheel you are using when I use mine I put around 35 psi in it and fill the resovior to within an inch of the top.
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: lee4206 on 01 March 2008, 20:55:56
It not the ideal way to to do it but if its air traped at master cyl you can sometimes clear it by pushing the pistons back very slowly without undoing the bleed nipple. This should force all of the air out.  You will need to suck the fluid out of the resivoir  to stop it over flowing
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Bandit127 on 01 March 2008, 21:03:24
Quote
If you use the easibleed again make sure you have at least 30psi in the wheel you are using when I use mine I put around 35 psi in it and fill the resovior to within an inch of the top.

Don't want an argument here but the last time I used one the instructions said no more than 15 psi as it affects the seals?

(Which was probably the last time I Please read the manual as it happens....)

Jim
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Bandit127 on 01 March 2008, 21:07:03
Quote
Quote
If you use the easibleed again make sure you have at least 30psi in the wheel you are using when I use mine I put around 35 psi in it and fill the resovior to within an inch of the top.

Don't want an argument here but the last time I used one the instructions said no more than 15 psi as it affects the seals?

(Which was probably the last time I Please read the manual as it happens....)

Jim


In fact, here is "TFM" to "R"... 20 psi.
http://www.gunson.co.uk/items/pdf/Products/G4062_Instructions.pdf
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Jukeboxnut on 01 March 2008, 21:18:25
I've used 30 psi with my easibleed on both my old Omega and this one with no problems but I read somewhere that if you are bleeding the clutch you should reduce the pressure to 15 psi though I can't remember why.  As my cars are autos this does not apply.
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: achoo81 on 01 March 2008, 21:32:35
Don't want to argue about it just saying what the instructions say on my Gunsons one, plus I found that it worked better if the pressure was at least 30 psi.
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Andy B on 01 March 2008, 21:36:41
Quote
Quote
If you use the easibleed again make sure you have at least 30psi in the wheel you are using when I use mine I put around 35 psi in it and fill the resovior to within an inch of the top.

Don't want an argument here but the last time I used one the instructions said no more than 15 psi as it affects the seals?

(Which was probably the last time I Please read the manual as it happens....)

Jim
I ended up with fluid everywhere when I didn't drop the spare wheel pressure. :(   :y
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: achoo81 on 01 March 2008, 21:36:50
The reason they say to use 15psi on clutch bleeding is because the master cylinder is a lot smaller than the brake ,also shorter pipe run more chance to do damage to seals.
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 01 March 2008, 22:10:58
Jaime, you say original disks / pads were FUBAR, have you given them chance to bed in? About 50 miles with strong brake use? :)
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: TheBoy on 01 March 2008, 22:18:48
Quote
Jaime, you say original disks / pads were FUBAR, have you given them chance to bed in? About 50 miles with strong brake use? :)
This isn't a bedding in problem, there is just too much pedal travel.

I can stand it on its nose (apparently ::)), but the pedal is through the boards on the tarmac to do so....
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Bandit127 on 01 March 2008, 23:14:28
TheBoy - please keep us posted on this. My pedal probably goes 2" when the foot expects 1/2". It always doesn't feel right but I always get full anchors and a hard pedal when it gets there.

In the days before ABS could store an airlock it would be the master cylinder seals. The pedal eventually pumps up but not as immediately as it does with air in the system and you still get full brakes, again unlike air in the system. I don't want to be stripping the master cylinder if bleeding will sort it...

Thanks, Jim
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: TheBoy on 02 March 2008, 09:28:08
Quote
TheBoy - please keep us posted on this. My pedal probably goes 2" when the foot expects 1/2". It always doesn't feel right but I always get full anchors and a hard pedal when it gets there.

In the days before ABS could store an airlock it would be the master cylinder seals. The pedal eventually pumps up but not as immediately as it does with air in the system and you still get full brakes, again unlike air in the system. I don't want to be stripping the master cylinder if bleeding will sort it...

Thanks, Jim
Omegas do have progessive brakes, so if you've come from cars like Focus etc with hairline triggers, it takes getting used to.

Obviously, I drive enough Omegas to know tractor aint right :(
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: TheBoy on 02 March 2008, 14:05:20
All sorted, thanks for all your help :y

A play with the Tech2 pinpointed the problem to NSF brake, so rebleed that one (the old fashioned way with Mrs TheBoy on pedal duty), and there was a fair bit of air in it.

Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: albitz on 02 March 2008, 14:10:51
as someone who doesnt know much about this electricity stuff....how does tech 2 know that youve got air in your brake caliper :question  :-/
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Andy B on 02 March 2008, 14:22:35
Quote
as someone who doesnt know much about this electricity stuff....how does tech 2 know that youve got air in your brake caliper :question  :-/
Yes! What he ^^^^^^ said!  :-?  :y
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: TheBoy on 02 March 2008, 14:26:20
Because you can play silly buggers with each individual brake (or each front, and rears as a pair on pre 98 cars).
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 March 2008, 15:01:35
Yes, with tech2 under the actuator test or ECU control you fire actuators at will.....so spin a wheel (or drive it down the road) and get the ABS to try and stop it....if there is air in the system it wont stop!
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: albitz on 02 March 2008, 15:13:11
i had to read that twice,couldnt believe what i was reading,sounds like an awesome piece of kit 8-)
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Pitchfork on 02 March 2008, 15:15:05
Quote
i had to read that twice,couldnt believe what i was reading,sounds like an awesome piece of kit 8-)
...are you American???? ;D
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: albitz on 02 March 2008, 15:18:36
i did think twice about using that word tbh,but that tech 2 thing does things that can either be described as awesome or witchcraft. ;D....although i suppose amazing might have sufficed :)
Title: Re: Brake pedal travel - spongy
Post by: Dave-C on 02 March 2008, 15:36:34
Quote
All sorted, thanks for all your help :y

A play with the Tech2 pinpointed the problem to NSF brake, so rebleed that one (the old fashioned way with Mrs TheBoy on pedal duty), and there was a fair bit of air in it.


The only way, don't like easy bleed...  only open the nipple on the downstroke of the pedal :y  

No chance of getting air in that way :)

Glad all sorted...  adjusted my handbrake today for the MOT next week, 4 clicks, can park it on a vertical cliff now ;D ;D ;D

Getting some droplinks and possibly an idler arm this week,

Fingers Crossed :-X

DC