Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Danny on 10 March 2008, 18:44:29
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My car has been given a full fresh set of spark plugs as well as its conversion for an extra tenner as my old ones were well shot, but the car's still idling lumpy on gas, is this because its a fresh conversion? i know it's meant to take a bit of time to settle properly
also, not sure i understand the gas level gauge, there is an "R" then the "I II III IIII"
which would be lit when it needs filling again? only the R is lit when i'm driving, and it's meant to have 64 litres in it!
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Should be as smooth as an Immac'd teenager , and the R is reserve, then I, II, III, IIII is probably 25% 50% 75% and Full.
If its been filled then I suspect a mistake during fitting.
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Re the gauge lights, It's gonne be config in the software
First thing I'd check is that the fuelling is correct and the injector timings set up properly.
Danny, how have they plubmed in the evaporator to the coolant system, and is the evaporator red hot when the engine is at full temp? This is very important to know...
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My car has been given a full fresh set of spark plugs as well as its conversion for an extra tenner as my old ones were well shot, but the car's still idling lumpy on gas, is this because its a fresh conversion? i know it's meant to take a bit of time to settle properly
also, not sure i understand the gas level gauge, there is an "R" then the "I II III IIII"
which would be lit when it needs filling again? only the R is lit when i'm driving, and it's meant to have 64 litres in it!
I would take it back tbh......even a fresh conversion should idle smoothly........and the R means reserve......ie empty......so either theres hardly any lpg in it.......or they havent bothered to setup the gauge correctly.......with a full tank you should have 4 greens lit.
Im suprised they didnt bother to take time to explain the gauge to you.
But before you take it back........if the plugs were that bad.....try a new air filter to see if it makes any difference :y
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Re the gauge lights, It's gonne be config in the software
First thing I'd check is that the fuelling is correct and the injector timings set up properly.
Danny, how have they plubmed in the evaporator to the coolant system, and is the evaporator red hot when the engine is at full temp? This is very important to know...
Could not agree more, seeing the results you achived on the LPG facelift i had.
Make sure the coolant has a direct feed from the coolant bridge, and not just a T peice below the header tank.
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That's what I was getting at Mr Tunnie...
I rekon they've probably plumbed the vaporisor in incorrectly and / or not set the multiplier map on the road...
A lead and some software is needed, after the basic hand on evaporator checks..
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Danny,
No offence is intended here, but I'm not sure what your knowledge of LPG installs is. If you like, you can give me a call, and I can talk you through the basic checks.
If I had paid that much cash for an LPG install that didn't idle right, I would be going nuts!
How does it behave at higher revs, when you give the loud pedal some abuse?
How bad is the idle difference on gas? Is it clearly noticable? Or just extremely slight?
Do you know where they positioned the injectors? This can play a fairly large part in idling so I hear.
If my car's not been used in a while (few days), it will have a really bad LPG idle until its had a good run. But then it's fine..
but 9.99 times out of ten, mine idles perfectly, and it ALWAYS without fail idles perfectly when hot
I'm no "expert" but it doesn't sound like the installers are either if they've let it go like that!
If you want to have a chat, then no problemo...
Am I right in thinking it's an OMVL dream kit?
I would also like to know where they picked up the RPM signal.
From the coloured wire on the DIS is not the best place, as the signal is not clean or consistent. Much better to get it from the relevent ECU pin wire.
Don't stress too much though, it's fixable, and if it runs OK on gas otherwise, it's not indicative of a major fault (but could go that way if the varorisor isn't getting a good coolant feed.
Looks like on a car such as this one, DIY may still be the best option if you know the car...
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Last question.... what internal Bore size is the gas tank to evaporator pipe? This is very important on larger engines, but affects them more at higher RPM.
If it's going lean at full load, I wouldn't use LPG until it's been confirmed as set up OK, as you're into Piston melting territory there !!
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I'm thinking my best bet is to print off this entire page and return to the garage with it tomorrow, cos LPG and engines are way over my head
i'll say this, it idles lumpy, but driving is absolutely fine, but if i lift of the pedal and hold it at 1500rpm the EML comes on, but goes off once i press the pedal harder, car doesnt lose any power
should i run it down the motorway in the morning d'ya think? will that make any difference?
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I'm thinking my best bet is to print off this entire page and return to the garage with it tomorrow, cos LPG and engines are way over my head
i'll say this, it idles lumpy, but driving is absolutely fine, but if i lift of the pedal and hold it at 1500rpm the EML comes on, but goes off once i press the pedal harder, car doesnt lose any power
should i run it down the motorway in the morning d'ya think? will that make any difference?
If the install is done right, there should be no difference on petrol or gas, you should not be able to tell the difference!
Take it back Danny, EML and lumpy idle is not right.
1 very basic check and we can tell if this garage is any good. pop the bonnet and take a look at the coolant header tank!
On the right hand side of it, looking at the car, underneath the tank, there should be a coolant pipe that goes into the left hand side of the engine, into a big silver pipe.
Is there a T-Peice on it?
Also post loads of pictures up so we can take a look, i would take a large bet that people here know more than the garage ;) :y
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If the EML is coming on the likelihood is the fuelling on LPG is out and it's causing the fuel trim to go out of range. Sounds like they just need to do a more thorough job of mapping the LPG ECU but check the points James mentions too.
Not surprising I suppose, it took time to get James' mapping right and if you're under pressure to get the job out the door I guess that's where it's going to fall down. :-/
I'd take it back and ask them to improve it.
Kevin
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to confirm for james, it is the OMVL dream 21 system, my apologies for having no knowledge of this stuff, i know its probably not helping you help me much!
PICS: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1205229583
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as per the other thread?
1) its a single point mixer system??
2) Strange place for the evaportor
I can't see where the main coolant feed is
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Danny, I hate to say this mate, but from what I've seen that's NOT an SGI kit.
And, they have made a real PIGS EAR of fitting it.
It's no wonder it's going to idle badly. If they've used the coolant feed from the throttle bodies it A) Won't get enough coolant and B) Won't get coolant very often! (As it's only a bleed-off back to the header tank!!
that feed can only come from one place - the bridge!
I would be driving it through their window at this stage, having paid what you did....
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Just joined this thread, single point, gas feed is a long way from the inlets.
If it was twin feeds by the throttle body - possibly OK.
Water feed is not good, need to get the feed from behind the engine.
My idle is slightly lumpier on gas than petrol but needs A-B to notice it, but is quieter and smoother over idle.
Complain and pay the extra costs (not labour and deduct the cost of the SP system) for SGI.
The long trunking is why SP does not work too well on Omegas
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to confirm for james, it is the OMVL dream 21 system, my apologies for having no knowledge of this stuff, i know its probably not helping you help me much!
PICS: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1205229583
If they have sold this as an OMVL Dream 21 you need to take some action, I believe. OMVL dream 21 is an SGI system http://www.omvlgas.it/eng/prodotti.php# and that's not what you've ended up with. >:(
Kevin
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If the EML is coming on the likelihood is the fuelling on LPG is out and it's causing the fuel trim to go out of range. Sounds like they just need to do a more thorough job of mapping the LPG ECU but check the points James mentions too.
Not surprising I suppose, it took time to get James' mapping right and if you're under pressure to get the job out the door I guess that's where it's going to fall down. :-/
I'd take it back and ask them to improve it.
Kevin
I think I would ask for my money back and go elsewhere. Are they part of the LPGA?
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Danny - As per my comments on the other thread.
Take this back, NOW. And demand a full refund.
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it's going back tomorrow morning with this thread printed out
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it's going back tomorrow morning with this thread printed out
Take the thread from the gallery too.
1) They have sold you a mixer system, not SGI
2) It gets no coolant flow, thats what idle is lumpy
3) Its a single point injection to the airbox inlet... if that back fires you will get a lot of damage!
Refund now, and go DIY.
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it's going back tomorrow morning with this thread printed out
Take the thread from the gallery too.
1) They have sold you a mixer system, not SGI
2) It gets no coolant flow, thats what idle is lumpy
3) Its a single point injection to the airbox inlet... if that back fires you will get a lot of damage!
Refund now, and go DIY.
In addition, point out that they have stolen a coolant feed from a part of the car that is now no longer getting coolant. The throttle bodies have a coolant jacket for a reason, else the pipe would go straight to the header tank, no? Therefore argue not getting the required coolant in engine components could affect performance, reliability, and longevity...
I cannot stress enough, just looking at those pictures, I would be absolutely fuming if that was my car.... whoever set this up has NO knowledge of the Omega AT ALL
If they are in the LPGA they need reporting.
If they don't play the game - small claims court and trading standards. You cannot lose, and I will even accompany you on principle if you wanted backup!
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The throttles are heated for a reason.....and that is to stop them icing....coz you dont want that happening in the open position.
Remember that the air temp in the UK regularly drops below freezing and because the Omega has a prety reasonable cold air supply it will get freezing air fed into the throttles.
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Looking at it again, there does appear to be a vapour filter just behind the airbox elbow (silver cylinder), followed by a "Y" connector and two pipes leading off it. Maybe these go to 2 injector blocks hidden somewhere? How they've got them under the plenum beats me.
Still can't understand what the great big pipe from the airbox elbow to the vapouriser is, and the coolant plumbing needs to be sorted out, as previously mentioned. Proper flow from the heater feed behind the engine and re-plumb the TB heater as it should be.
So, give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe it's not what it originally seemed, but the fact remains there are issues which need sorting.
Kevin
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Looking at it again, there does appear to be a vapour filter just behind the airbox elbow (silver cylinder), followed by a "Y" connector and two pipes leading off it. Maybe these go to 2 injector blocks hidden somewhere? How they've got them under the plenum beats me.
Still can't understand what the great big pipe from the airbox elbow to the vapouriser is, and the coolant plumbing needs to be sorted out, as previously mentioned. Proper flow from the heater feed behind the engine and re-plumb the TB heater as it should be.
So, give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe it's not what it originally seemed, but the fact remains there are issues which need sorting.
Kevin
If it's SGI, why are there pipes going into the air inlets in the first place? Sorry to sound dumb, I don't understand... :(
It needs to be determined, find the injectors and follow the gas feeds...
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Looking at it again, there does appear to be a vapour filter just behind the airbox elbow (silver cylinder), followed by a "Y" connector and two pipes leading off it. Maybe these go to 2 injector blocks hidden somewhere? How they've got them under the plenum beats me.
Still can't understand what the great big pipe from the airbox elbow to the vapouriser is, and the coolant plumbing needs to be sorted out, as previously mentioned. Proper flow from the heater feed behind the engine and re-plumb the TB heater as it should be.
So, give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe it's not what it originally seemed, but the fact remains there are issues which need sorting.
Kevin
If it's SGI, why are there pipes going into the air inlets in the first place? Sorry to sound dumb, I don't understand... :(
It needs to be determined, find the injectors and follow the gas feeds...
I'm wondering if the vapouriser needs a breather so it's been taken to the airbox just because it's somewhere clean and open to atmosphere. It's a hell of a big pipe though. Either that or the brass bit we're seeing on top of the airbox elbow is not a connection to the ducting, but a Vapour temperature sensor? :-/
It's difficult to tell from photos what's going on, except to say the coolant side needs a bit of work.
Kevin
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Danny your first job is to find those injectors, there will be a gas feed to them.
can you take more pics of what pipes go where etc?