Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: shanjon on 10 March 2008, 11:07:10
-
ok i have scoured the site and done everything suggested including changing the hbv and checking all the vacuum pipes and backflushing the matrix but still i have no heat in the cabin,
if i refill cooling system let the car get up to temperature everything is great i have loads of heat until i switch it off and leave for half an hour and then no heat and display says coolant level,
however the other day i forced water round the system using the pipe that goes from the expansion cap to the plenum and it was great all day but the next day nothing and displaying coolant level again ,,,,,
im assuming it is sucking in air or leaking from somewhere but i cant find any evidence of a leak..
someone please tell me its something obvious :y i have only had the car 4 weeks and love it but am sick of no heater
-
Coolant Level warning is usually just a dodgy sensor in the headertank. They can be got new for around £34 from VX, or sometimes cheaper on eBay. Unless the level is actually visibly dropping, then its not really worth worrying about the message.
As for the heat issues, someone with more know-how should be along soon :)
-
Have you ensured that all air is removed from the system?
From COLD, fill water to correct level. Leave header cap OFF. Start engine, have heater settings at HOT. Let engine warm up and regularly 'burp' the large radiator hose next to the battery by squeexing it. You should see water emerge into the header tank from one of the small hoses. Ensure level remains correct.
Once all hot, replace cap. There should now be heat in the cabin.
Remember to check water level again next morning when its all cold. All air should now be out of the system.....
Remember to ensure the correct 50/50 mix of water/coolant...
-
One question at this stage.......
Are you loosing coolant?
-
Have you ensured that all air is removed from the system?
From COLD, fill water to correct level. Leave header cap OFF. Start engine, have heater settings at HOT. Let engine warm up and regularly 'burp' the large radiator hose next to the battery by squeexing it. You should see water emerge into the header tank from one of the small hoses. Ensure level remains correct.
Once all hot, replace cap. There should now be heat in the cabin.
Remember to check water level again next morning when its all cold. All air should now be out of the system.....
Remember to ensure the correct 50/50 mix of water/coolant...
have done all of that several times but i only get heat for a short period of time each time i do it
-
One question at this stage.......
Are you loosing coolant?
i can not see any leaks but im pretty sure i must be as water lev el does appear to drop a little, althoughb the car must be leaking or sucking in air as i have blown 2 pipes the one that goes to rad by battery i have forced water throughb system with hose to the point where all air is out yet i could go to car now and disconnect heater matrix pipes or hbv pipes and no water would leak (or very very little)
-
Right
So water is being lost whcih is a key clue in the symptoms.
What you have to consider is that during heat up the coolant expands and will force some water out of any weak points in the system but, the pressure will not increase considerably as it would on a fully sealed setup.
As it cools and contracts, it will effectively drop to less than atmospheric pressure and now draw air in at the point at which it was leaking.
My approach to diag would be to remove the plenum and inlet and plug the two coolant pipes that feed the throttle body and then pressurise the system (I have a coolant bottle cap with a car schrader valve fitted) to about 15psi (not to high as you could risk damaging it!) and look for the leak...
-
thanks mate i will try that sound very feasible, i will update as soon as i have tried
-
thanks mate i will try that sound very feasible, i will update as soon as i have tried
Do watch the pressure though, the safety valve is normaly in the expansion cap (on my modified cap I drilled through the air admittance valve so the safety valve is still present).
And dont forget to carry out the test on a cold engine.
-
no leak and water level is staying consistent however car runs at 92.5 to 95 degrees all the time i really dont know how to proceed with this, i have tried sucking on the vac pipe that goes on hbv and still no change, what is the best way to force water round the system to push out air as i have tried through top hose on rad and that just seemed to airlock the matrix and i tried the pipe that goes to intake plenum from expansion tank, ?????????
-
Right, as to the HBV if vac is applied then it bypasses the heater so disconnect the vac feed to it and check whether it is bypassing the matrix. Reach in the drivers footwell to feel the heater pipes through the bulkhead, if they get scolding hot (when engine running) then your HBV is ok and you are getting got feed into the cabin.
If the heater pipes get hot then your problem is within the air distribution unit. (i.e. you get a hot matrix but the internal flaps do not open to allow heat through). If you do not get a hot matrix then focus on the hot water feed.
You can do both of these chest in about 5 minutes without taking loads of gubbins off. let us know how you go
-
top hose on matrix hot,,,, and bottom cold and disconnecting vac pipe makes no difference
-
that's odd. with vac applied the hot feed to the matrix should divert and the top hose to the matrix goes cold. (best way of checking is start up from cold with heater settings on fully cold, pipe should stay cold) Anyway, seems like you have heat to the matrix but no flow. Is the HBV connected correctly? could the matrix be clogged?
-
that's odd. with vac applied the hot feed to the matrix should divert and the top hose to the matrix goes cold. (best way of checking is start up from cold with heater settings on fully cold, pipe should stay cold) Anyway, seems like you have heat to the matrix but no flow. Is the HBV connected correctly? could the matrix be clogged?
as mentioned previous i have replaced the hbv and backflushed the matrix several times, the hbv is fitted correctly and was a new one from the stealers,
-
that's odd. with vac applied the hot feed to the matrix should divert and the top hose to the matrix goes cold. (best way of checking is start up from cold with heater settings on fully cold, pipe should stay cold) Anyway, seems like you have heat to the matrix but no flow. Is the HBV connected correctly? could the matrix be clogged?
as mentioned previous i have replaced the hbv and backflushed the matrix several times, the hbv is fitted correctly and was a new one from the stealers,
Seen the bypass valves connected wrongly a few times so do check it...
-
i think there is a problem with flow myself but where is the question ????, i dont think it is the water pump because i broke down the other week when a hose burst and when the aa filled it with water the pump made a right racket until the water got to it, so in my mind that is turning as it should, the cars temperature is it taken from the rad or somewhere on the block, ?
-
Its taken from the back of the block for the gauge and the ECU values, its actualy on the coolant bridge which also has a feed to the bypass valve.
-
I'm going through the same difficulties at the moment, I am reasonably certain I have poor floe through the matrix
So far I have flushed the heater core, plenty of flow. I have tried filling from the heater pipe as recommended, installed secondary coolant pump as in later cars and tried filling from the drain point on the radiator.
Changed the thermostat over this weekend and clipped a temperature probe to the heater return pipe. Initially return temperature around 35 C.
Fiddled about removing air from the heater lines and increased return temperature to around 60 C.
I still think I have an air lock, next step is to drill a small hole in one of the pipe stubs that will be covered by the hose in normal operation and bleed from there.
After three V6's, this is the first one that will not give good cabin heat and fill easily.
If I get it right before the weather improves I will let you know what I think fixed it.
-
thanks for that , my reason for asking is because the car says it is really hot but i have never seen the fan on the rad come on, and as such im thinking the temp in rad is different to block becuase even if i switch the air con fans on it makes no difference to temp guage whereas it did on my 3.0 sintra and my veccy i used to own,
-
I would think that if one of the heater hoses was warm and the other cold, that the heater might me clogged. I thought the hot coolant went in through one og the heater hoses and out the other? On my car both gets hot.
If you think you have flow issues, you could also try to elevate the front of the car :) (sometimes to 45 degrees)
That will help the coolant start flowing, if your coolant system is not blocked.
By the way, has there been any reason for the system to clog up? Oil in water and such??
-
Its taken from the back of the block for the gauge and the ECU values, its actualy on the coolant bridge which also has a feed to the bypass valve.
As the matrix is clear that's where my thinking was going. Disconnect the vac feed to make sure that the HBV is not diverting and go from there. Sorry but I'm no expert in tracing the HBV pipework and I'll defer to others with better knowledge than me
-
I would think that if one of the heater hoses was warm and the other cold, that the heater might me clogged. I thought the hot coolant went in through one og the heater hoses and out the other? On my car both gets hot.
If you think you have flow issues, you could also try to elevate the front of the car :) (sometimes to 45 degrees)
That will help the coolant start flowing, if your coolant system is not blocked.
By the way, has there been any reason for the system to clog up? Oil in water and such??
[/highlight]
not as far as i know m8 , im so peed off with this issue i will try anything so i will try raising the car as anything is worth a go
-
Its taken from the back of the block for the gauge and the ECU values, its actualy on the coolant bridge which also has a feed to the bypass valve.
As the matrix is clear that's where my thinking was going. Disconnect the vac feed to make sure that the HBV is not diverting and go from there. Sorry but I'm no expert in tracing the HBV pipework and I'll defer to others with better knowledge than me
thanks anyway m8 all help greatly appreciated
-
thanks for that , my reason for asking is because the car says it is really hot but i have never seen the fan on the rad come on, and as such im thinking the temp in rad is different to block becuase even if i switch the air con fans on it makes no difference to temp guage whereas it did on my 3.0 sintra and my veccy i used to own,
does anyone reckon my thermostat is stuck closed or only partly open (clutching at straws here)
-
I would have thought a stuck thermostat is unlikely, if it opens too early the temperature will indicate really low. If it fails shut, which I think they are designed not to do, wouldn't it overheat?
Running temperature should be at halfscale and reasonably constant.
Changing my thermostat this weekend did not help my lack of heat. All it achieved was to show a small leakage at the front oil cooler joint. If coolant seeps out, could air be drawn back in overnight causing airlock problems?
Clutching at ever thinner straws now.
-
if i cant fix it this week then its going to the car heaven im that peed off with it no wonder it was for sale cheap
-
Hi i had a problem with my heater matrix after leak from oil cooler flushed matrix out it seemed ok water running though fine but could not get cabin hot .Took dash out an changed matrix car got so hot like new .old matrix was partly blocked
-
That's interesting, so you ran water through the matrix and it seemed to flow well?
Could you feel any resistance blowing through the old matrix?
-
no even used an system flush i did try most of above post to . iam a heating enginer an no heating wasnt funny . the pathways in the matrix block and the water just bypasses the blockage . cabin got hot when car was at idle but as soon as it was runnuig it got could. not saying thats wots wrong with yours but might be.
-
Right, tonight's update.
I fitted a transparent section of pipe into the feed to the heater matrix in the hope of observing flow, in this pipe I added a copper section incorporating a bleed valve.
With the engine and the auxiliary pimp running, some turbulent flow was observed. Plenty of gas bubbles but no obvious air lock.
What I think was more significant was that the clear pipe, softened when hot, was swelling with the internal pressure. Even with the engine off and just the auxiliary pump running.
My worst nightmare seems to have come true, I have ordered a matrix.
So much for running a hose through the core and getting plenty of flow!
-
My heater only seems to work if I use eco mode, other than that it just blows cold air
-
I'm in the process of changing the matrix at the moment, I'll let you know the results.
-
I think that lack of heat in the cabin with evidence of a working water pump and flow through the system (no overheating) would point almost certainly to the matrix.
Good luck :y
-
My heater only seems to work if I use eco mode, other than that it just blows cold air
Do you have the auto climate control?
-
Progress so far on my matrix change, the new core has minimal resistance to blowing into it. The old one, when finally removed, has considerable resistance. High hopes.
Bad thing is the new one has slightly smaller end cans, so would spill air from each end. After much time wasting with foam strips, I've used mastic to seal the ends.
Reassembly is nearly complete, tomorrow should see if it's done the trick.
I never want to this job again! Going to the pub now.
-
fixed it at last [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] i tried flushing matrix again and all seemed good until i ran it and it was cold
i came up with the idea of removing top matrix pipe and stuffing hose into it so water could go around entire system and come out of matrix which it did slowlybut came out of reservoir very fast , i then put the cap on and loads of brown c**p came out followed by loads of water i repeated with the other matrix pipe and touch wood i have had loads of heat since and the car is running between 92.5 degrees and 95 degrees and is much lower than it was
-
it was strange as i had backflushed the matrix several times, and before you all say it i have put anti freeze in.... just under 5 litres of the stuff, i was concerned about getting air in system so i unscrewed the screw in rad so water escaped slowly while topping up reservoir at the same time i then ran engine up to temp and let it cool then put the rest in using the same process
-
glad you got it sorted buddy. i only read the 1st n last page so dont know if anyone has suggested it but have you thought of a previous owner using radwell or something similar? its nasty stuff and from what if heard, it could definetly block a matrix.
-
its entirely possible m8 , the car really was not maintained at all and previous keeper did not have a clue and sold it cheap as it would not start in the damp which was complete rubbish, as it dont start as an when it wants lol
-
OK guys Ive got an MV6 with a cool heater too.. Ive pinned it to the matrix and heres how I did it. Take the vac pipe off the HBV and 'borrow' a nearby vac pipe, fix to the HBV. Now gently suck and blow on the other end of that pipe and you should feel the valve pulsing (ie opening and closing), it prevents water going to the matrix when you suck and vice versa. You can also check your air con while doing this, set to MIN and the pipe you have removed from the valve should now have vac present. If for some reason the heater now goes hot it would point to a sticky HRV - unfortunately mine didnt so its the matrix. I might try some radflush as the coolant wasn't in top condition and as someone commented, it may have been radwelded yuk. I dont think airlocks are a problem these days on modern cars unless you have air getting in (popped head gasket) or water pump is very tired, then you would get a hot engine too. Hope this helps!
-
When I investigated the old matrix off the car, I found black plastic flakes in it. They look like the plastic used on the HBV or radiator stubs.
Blowing it through with compressed air cleared quite a lot more contamination and did not hurt the core. I probably would have tried that in situ had I known the matrix could withstand it.
I used about 90psi air, but with the other stub open so as not to apply full pressure to the core.