Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: humbucker on 14 April 2008, 22:18:53
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Hi everyone
As many of you will be aware, I've been having problems with a continued slow coolant loss. The coolant drips down the back of the engine onto the ground and subsequently I have to top it up once a week or so. Last week the heater matrix burst. I've changed HBV and flushed but still problem. Advice on here pointed to oil cooler / plate and since I did the cam cover gaskets and breather system at the weekend I thought I'd take a snap or two of what I saw around the oil cooler area to show those of you more knowledgable than I. Any feedback greatly appreciated as I want to get this sorted once and for all.
So what's the verdict? Fair bit of sludge by the looks of it? Look familiar to anyone? Thanks in advance!
(http://www.audiojustice.com/images/car/thiscorrosion1.jpg)
(http://www.audiojustice.com/images/car/thiscorrosion2.jpg)
(http://www.audiojustice.com/images/car/thiscorrosion3.jpg)
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Yep....
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'k thanks mark, at least i can try and get this problem sorted once and for all.
the guide i mentioned to you previously for replacing the oil cooler (http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63566) lists the required parts but i wondered if there were part numbers for the bits available? i did a scout around on here a while back but to no avail. apologies if i've temporarily gone blind and there's a more definitive answer here.
shame i've put it all back together again hehe, would have been an ideal opportunity to have done the oil cooler this weekend at the same time as the cam covers!
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my omega 3.0 has some of this sludge as well but none in the the collant does this mean mine needs a oil coller as well? does your car have any oil in the collant ilovemyelite? i too would be very interested in parts required + part numbers because my local vx dealer thought a omega was front wheel drive :o so this is to complecated for them to get right without the correct part numbers
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my omega 3.0 has some of this sludge as well but none in the the collant does this mean mine needs a oil coller as well? does your car have any oil in the collant ilovemyelite? i too would be very interested in parts required + part numbers because my local vx dealer thought a omega was front wheel drive :o so this is to complecated for them to get right without the correct part numbers
hi psnimv6
i havent noticed any sludge in the expansion tank, i did a flush recently when i replaced the heater bypass valve and put some nice new red coolant in so it might be difficult to tell if there's a slight oil contamination in there at the moment. from the suggestions and comments i have received on the forum i wouldn't hesitate to act on the recommendations of mark and others and go with replacing the oil cooler.
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it was mainly the o-rings relating to the cooler and the channel bolts i was keen to get part numbers for.
also, is it important to change the thermostat while you're replacing the oil cooler?
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my omega 3.0 has some of this sludge as well but none in the the collant does this mean mine needs a oil coller as well? does your car have any oil in the collant ilovemyelite? i too would be very interested in parts required + part numbers because my local vx dealer thought a omega was front wheel drive :o so this is to complecated for them to get right without the correct part numbers
hi psnimv6
i havent noticed any sludge in the expansion tank, i did a flush recently when i replaced the heater bypass valve and put some nice new red coolant in so it might be difficult to tell if there's a slight oil contamination in there at the moment. from the suggestions and comments i have received on the forum i wouldn't hesitate to act on the recommendations of mark and others and go with replacing the oil cooler.
thanks for the reply i to just replaced my collant with nice red stuff >:( so it may be the same as you but the collant that i removed did not have any oil in it for sure but it is all sludgey around the 'V' area so it looks as if it is on its the oil coller is on its way out and my car is ex cop car that was kept as a spare car and only had 20'000 miles on it when i got it and by the looks of the collant it was never changed as it was still the blue stuff and very weak looking and as you no this will f**k up the oil cooler so it looks as if i am going to be spending again real soon :(
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I would redo the thermostate as well judging by those pics as its quite hard to tell from that which one or both are leaking.
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if it helps, the oil cooler itself is £99.00 but with a VX trade card it's £89.00
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Yep for £20-30 odd quid you may as well do stat..
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Is this just the cover plate that needs re-sealing or the complete oil cooler that needs replacing?
Those pics look very similar to my Elite when I changed the camcover seals. There was a dry waxy substance (sealant?) along the length of the oil cooler and a sludgy residue in the triangular gap between oil cooler and stat just like in the pic.
Its not loosing coolant and no sign of oil in coolant though.
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If the mileage is up and the cooler is unknown if its ever been replaced then i would change it whilst at this point in the strip.
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If the mileage is up and the cooler is unknown if its ever been replaced then i would change it whilst at this point in the strip.
sadly i have had to put it all back together, i didnt have the parts as until i'd had confirmation here i wasnt entirely sure whether or not it would be the oil cooler. i'm going to have to strip it down again to do the oil cooler, but as i won't be cleaning the breathers etc as i did that this weekend it shouldn't take as long to dismantle and put back together.
pain though; you're right it would have been the ideal opportunity to sort it. vx parts depts don't seem to be open saturdays though :(
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Oh yes, believe me it is much much quicker second time.
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One bit of advice i will give is next time you are working with the plenum or the inlet off get some rag or kitchen roll in them ports, last thing you want is anything dropping down them ;)
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Well said. Like the clips off the breather pipes at the back.. (I came so close... :o)
I put rag in the ports and then an old towel over the top when I'm working on it.
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One bit of advice i will give is next time you are working with the plenum or the inlet off get some rag or kitchen roll in them ports, last thing you want is anything dropping down them ;)
don't worry i had kitchen towel in the ports every step of the way, from the moment the plenum was off! just was about to put the 'trumpets' back on when i thought i'd take a quick snap
:y
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oh and just out of interest, i don't really know the difference between the green and black GM sealants... i used the black stuff on the cam covers as suggested in the guides here, but can i use the same stuff for the oil cooler plate or do i need something else?
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;D ;D The oil cooler plate needs Grey, so neither your black or the green for this one matey ;)
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ah ok! thanks! does anybody know a part number for this sealant? would appreciate your help. thanks in advance!
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just looking at the pictures on the previous page, is it definitely the oil cooler leaking or could it be the sealant that just needs replacing? not doubting previous feedback, just curious before i order the parts...!
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If your keeping the car, its probably wise to replace the oilcooler while your at it as they don't last forever and make a large mess when they do. IMHO
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if it has been replaced before then it will be a stainless one and they last forever !! how old is car ? how much antifreeze has it been running ? how long do you intend on keeping car ? :y
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car is 10 years, dont think oil cooler has ever been replaced, i have all the receipts and service log from day 1 and even then ive had the car 4 or 5 years. antifreeze mix has been poor for quite a while to be honest, complete oversight by me as i topped it up so often with a poor mix (more often than not with water) as it was leaking so readily... only myself to blame i guess.
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i would change then matey cause it does make a bloody mess when it does go !! :(
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oh and i intend to keep the car for a long long time to come!
;)
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thanks for the advice everyone, i think thats fairly conclusive. cam covers last week, cam belt next week, oil cooler as soon as i can fit it in.
sheesh.
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Here is where it gets interesting.
When removing the main securing nuts for the cooler, its not unknown for the cooler threads to be stripped......so sometimes you end up replacing it anyway!
Just a word of caution!
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'k thanks mark. i've bought a new oil cooler, a nice shiny stainless one, and all the relevant parts. i figured with everything else i've been doing i might as well replace it, especially as i plan on keeping the mothership for a long time to come. going to try and get it sorted this weekend. in your opinion how long should a job like this take (just thinkin about how much sunshine is going to be around!!) bearing in mind this is the first time i will have done it, and replacing thermostat at same time. that said, i am pretty well versed in taking apart most of the parts due to recent cam cover 'expeditions' hehehe
:y
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'k thanks mark. i've bought a new oil cooler, a nice shiny stainless one, and all the relevant parts. i figured with everything else i've been doing i might as well replace it, especially as i plan on keeping the mothership for a long time to come. going to try and get it sorted this weekend. in your opinion how long should a job like this take (just thinkin about how much sunshine is going to be around!!) bearing in mind this is the first time i will have done it, and replacing thermostat at same time. that said, i am pretty well versed in taking apart most of the parts due to recent cam cover 'expeditions' hehehe
:y
3-4 hours if the first time.
19mm crows foot spanner is the secret to success for the oil cooler pipes.
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i'll pick one up on the way home tonight, don't have one in my kit. any other out-of-the-ordinary tools i should look out for to do the job?
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I'm intreagued...anyone got a picture of a crows foot spanner?? Is it like the ones you use for plumbing sinks?
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I'm intreagued...anyone got a picture of a crows foot spanner?? Is it like the ones you use for plumbing sinks?
lots of pictures of them here .... :)
http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/Tool-Shop/Crows-Foot-Wrenches
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WOW, How odd looking...thanks for the link...
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bah! went to halfords (as well as the wickes next door!) for a crowsfoot spanner. nothin. is this an essential bit of kit or is it just to make life easier? i dont want to start if im going to get stuck half way through with no other car available to get me out of trouble!
feedback greatly appreciated!
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anyone?
will i not be able to complete the job without this tool?
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Don't know if this helps http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/pro71-3-pce-metric-flare-nut-wrench-set
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cheers AA. was trying to track one down this morning so that i could do the job today. calling around hardware stores within a reasonable distance as we speak!
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Have not done the job personally but I trust the judgement of M_DTM and others who have.
If they say use a crows foot spanner to release pipe unions rather than bend pipes, I would use a crows foot spanner..... :y
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Have not done the job personally but I trust the judgement of M_DTM and others who have.
If they say use a crows foot spanner to release pipe unions rather than bend pipes, I would use a crows foot spanner..... :y
yep i'm inclined to agree, i just assumed that any halfords, plumbing tool supplier, motor tool supplier or anyone selling tools at all within a 20 mile radius of home would stock them! i'm going to have to order online and await delivery, nowhere stocks the things! doesn't look like i'll be getting mucky today then...! bah!
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update: crows foot wrench set ordered, oil cooler to be done another day...
:-[
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ok, thought i'd update on the end of this thread rather than start another...
replaced hbv, oil cooler, thermostat, water pump, heater matrix, coolant etc etc recently due to leakage. all needed doing anyway, but it turns out they weren't the cause (in case of oil cooler maybe just additional leak!).
serek and i had the engine apart at the weekend trying to find the leak thinking it was the coolant transfer pipe that goes into the oil cooler chamber. dry as anything.
we looked around and around and found slight leakage from back corner of passengers side head. it's also producing some orange cak as it's dribbling down block before it gets to oil filter area, but this might be oil still in system from oil cooler failure (?).
i dont think its head gasket failure per se, but pushing dribble of coolant out. then again i have no real experience of head work so not sure what would be causing it.
so my question is what to do next and what this actually is? any ideas?
:y
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ok, thought i'd update on the end of this thread rather than start another...
replaced hbv, oil cooler, thermostat, water pump, heater matrix, coolant etc etc recently due to leakage. all needed doing anyway, but it turns out they weren't the cause (in case of oil cooler maybe just additional leak!).
serek and i had the engine apart at the weekend trying to find the leak thinking it was the coolant transfer pipe that goes into the oil cooler chamber. dry as anything.
we looked around and around and found slight leakage from back corner of passengers side head. it's also producing some orange cak as it's dribbling down block before it gets to oil filter area, but this might be oil still in system from oil cooler failure (?).
i dont think its head gasket failure per se, but pushing dribble of coolant out. then again i have no real experience of head work so not sure what would be causing it.
so my question is what to do next and what this actually is? any ideas?
:y
Oh dear, sounds familiar :'(
M_DTM still thinks mine was not HG, I still think it was.
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not having worked on heads before i'm not sure what the best course of action is, it's not a big leak, but its consistent. sellotape doesn't seem like an option unfortunately, but i do want it fixed... my gut is that its too big for me to deal with, not the right tools etc, but that i need to have an idea what the problem is before i seek quotes etc.
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spoke to vx performance specialist place near me who work on v6s all the time, they said sounds like slight leakage from hg rather than 'hg failure'. his description certainly added up.
quoted me more than i can afford to spend to put it right tho, especially considering how much ive spent already trying to put it right :'(
whats the consequence of continuing to drive when its leaking slightly from this area? thing is this is my every day car so it being 'off the road' is not an option :(
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Nope, from the information available i dont agree with that diagnosis.
Theres evidence of seepage around cooler plate in your picture.
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Nope, from the information available i dont agree with that diagnosis.
Theres evidence of seepage around cooler plate in your picture.
pics were taken a few weeks back. the area in the pics is clean as a whistle now, sparkling! replaced cooler and plate, all relevant bits, even took it apart last week to double check and is dry as anything in there now. yes it needed curing, but it seems it may have been in addition to current seeping from corner of head mentioned in last couple of posts. :(
want it watertight, want to keep her going for a long time to come