Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: omegalord on 25 October 2007, 19:26:10
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Read on the parkers website that the 2.2 is alot slower but the stats are only half a second slower 0-60.
is it the torque thats alot lower then? , if so if i had it tuned up it should at least match the 2.5 on pulling power then and be a bit better on fuel.
Any help appreciated.
Matt :y
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People ask questions like this all the time. My question is: If you buy a diesel you are surely more interested in economy than performance, and, if you race your tractor, you'll lose economy. So..why?
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Well,
I arent after a diesel especially for the economy. I am after something that doesnt have all the problems a v6 has (rocker gaskets, hbv, overheating etc etc) but has a bit of poke to it. I want a good compromise in performance and economy/smoothness. I have no intention in racing a diesel but i dont want to have a car that pulls like a 950cc fiesta either.
Matt
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Hmmmm.......hows about a 2.0/2.2 four pot then?
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Why would i want a 2.0 or 2.2 4 pot when they obviously have little torque low down acompared to a turbo diesel?
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Why would i want a 2.0 or 2.2 4 pot when they obviously have little torque low down acompared to a turbo diesel?
Yes, I suppose so. I have owned a 2.0 and a 2.5 and, to be honest, in everyday driving, there wasn't that much to choose between them. It's a matter of personal preference I guess.
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Why would i want a 2.0 or 2.2 4 pot when they obviously have little torque low down acompared to a turbo diesel?
I have a 2.2 auto and it struggles to keep up with things like Mondeo TDCI and Passat TDI's AND only averages 25mpg daily running!! :( :( The 4 pot petrol IMHO is very underpowered and struggles to pull the heavy Omega body, plus the 4 pot is harsh when driven hard and rough when cold. Shame as I love the shape/style of the Omega but I went for the 2.2 4 pot as I didn't want the complexity/unreliability of the V6!
Dan
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Why would i want a 2.0 or 2.2 4 pot when they obviously have little torque low down acompared to a turbo diesel?
I have a 2.2 auto and it struggles to keep up with things like Mondeo TDCI and Passat TDI's AND only averages 25mpg daily running!! :( :( The 4 pot petrol IMHO is very underpowered and struggles to pull the heavy Omega body, plus the 4 pot is harsh when driven hard and rough when cold. Shame as I love the shape/style of the Omega but I went for the 2.2 4 pot as I didn't want the complexity/unreliability of the V6!
Dan
Thats exactly why i want a diesel. Never have i had a petrol car that has so many niggley problems. Thats why i wanted a turbo diesel as it will have alot of good low down torque which will make it a pleasure to drive. And as i dont intend on racing or doing 140mph everyday then the horsepower loss of a diesel wont affect me.
Any opinions on the original question over the 2.2 or 2.5?
Matt
Matt
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It's hard to find the information you're looking for Matt. I can only find the 0-60 times (11 and 11.5) top speeds and the like. I guess the ideal person would someone who had owned both. There must be a couple on here, somewhere.
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Yeah. Dont get me wrong i would be happy with both of em , but if the 2.2 tuned a bit would be as good through the whole rev range as the 2.5 and return better mpg then i would go with the 2.2
Also it would be a vauxhall engine and i like vauxhalls.
Matt
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This any help?
http://www.toph.co.uk/product.php?q=vauxhall
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Yeah , seen that and a few others. It seems the 2.2 isnt that far behind the 2.5 in torque terms. The hp is better in the 2.5 but i aint planning on going above 70 anyway.
Matt
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I have the 2.2dti, I have had diesel cars for a good number of years and like the torque they provide, yes the roar of a V6 is nice too, I did have one,I also had a V8 range Rover :)
All have pro's and con's.
I will be able to report back on the tuning off the 2.2dti as M-Tek is doing mine next week :)
There is the option of 2 maps, 1 for economy and 1 for power, my head says, economy but my heart says power..............M-Tek you listening....I'm going with my heart :y
Will let you all know off the outcome.
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Cheers alan,
What is the 2.2dti like for the omega as standard. Does it feel sluggish or does the turbo give good torque low down?
Matt
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As an example, the road service have recently re-surfaced a road just outside work and it had been finished with that very fine gravel, at 20mph in 3rd I can floor it and spin the rear wheels all the way upto 50mph ;D good fun (well I am putting new boots on Saturday) a mate at work tried it with his Passat Tdi (130) but can only get his wheels to spin in first (yeah I know front wheel drive, weight etc)
The torque is best in second and third, you really feel it even if it is only for a short time :(
I understand that after M-Tek has had a play with it, it will be the right side of 150bhp and torque upto about 330! with a slight increase in the mpg :)
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As an example, the road service have recently re-surfaced a road just outside work and it had been finished with that very fine gravel, at 20mph in 3rd I can floor it and spin the rear wheels all the way upto 50mph ;D good fun (well I am putting new boots on Saturday) a mate at work tried it with his Passat Tdi (130) but can only get his wheels to spin in first (yeah I know front wheel drive, weight etc)
The torque is best in second and third, you really feel it even if it is only for a short time :(
I understand that after M-Tek has had a play with it, it will be the right side of 150bhp and torque upto about 330! with a slight increase in the mpg :)
How do you mean? , the power band isnt that small surely?
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Why would i want a 2.0 or 2.2 4 pot when they obviously have little torque low down acompared to a turbo diesel?
Yes, I suppose so. I have owned a 2.0 and a 2.5 and, to be honest, in everyday driving, there wasn't that much to choose between them. It's a matter of personal preference I guess.
Steve, now now...
Can you really rate a 2.0 4pot, in a simelar league to that lovely V6 that you an I both know so well? >:( ;D
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Why would i want a 2.0 or 2.2 4 pot when they obviously have little torque low down acompared to a turbo diesel?
Yes, I suppose so. I have owned a 2.0 and a 2.5 and, to be honest, in everyday driving, there wasn't that much to choose between them. It's a matter of personal preference I guess.
Steve, now now...
Can you really rate a 2.0 4pot, in a simelar league to that lovely V6 that you an I both know so well? >:( ;D
I said "in everyday driving" ::)
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i have the 2.2dti and tow a caravan with it ,it will sit at60 @2000rpm all day long but if you need a burst for nipping past a 56mph lorry its more than able ....too easy in fact that you will hit 70 quickly and not notice it (oops) i would not swap this car for all the booze in tesco,s and thats saying something ;D.On another point the service ints on the 2.5 are rubbish go for the 2.2 :y
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me personally would go for the 2.5 as it is a bmw unit and very very reliable,not to say that the 2.2 isn't cos it is,but 2.5 bmw is very good :y :y :y
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Why would i want a 2.0 or 2.2 4 pot when they obviously have little torque low down acompared to a turbo diesel?
Yes, I suppose so. I have owned a 2.0 and a 2.5 and, to be honest, in everyday driving, there wasn't that much to choose between them. It's a matter of personal preference I guess.
Steve, now now...
Can you really rate a 2.0 4pot, in a simelar league to that lovely V6 that you an I both know so well? >:( ;D
I said "in everyday driving" ::)
nothing wrong with the 4 potter i still get 45mpg on motorway and 25-30mpg round town,with 160,000 on the clock and 12 years old not bad for age :y :y :y
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me personally would go for the 2.5 as it is a bmw unit and very very reliable,not to say that the 2.2 isn't cos it is,but 2.5 bmw is very good :y :y :y
Ppfffff! Reliable!?! Not sure about that!?! A car which needs its oil changing every 4-5000 miles these days I feel is just a joke frankly!
In comparison, our 130k DTi has not had one single engine problem in all its life (*touches wood*). It is quite fast enough and soars to 100mph (officer ;)) with no problem whatsoever. The diesel is noisy from startup but settles down lovely after about 20mins of driving and when warm, cruising @ 60/70 it is just as quiet as any modern car (probably quiter) The BMW unit is OLD technology compared to alot of the newer diesels.
Our friendly government really does make it very difficult for anyone to own a big engined car anymore. YES, the V6 petrol suits the car much better and it still doesn't seem quite right having such an agricultural engine in such a large cruiser but I would still find it very difficult to justify 25-30mpg from the petrols. You should see 48mpg from the 2.2 if steady, plus with the later engine you will be getting a newer car and not something that is perhaps going to need alot of money spending and will still go rusty. ::)
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Yeah. I think i am going to go for the 2.2dti and just have it chipped. Then i can drive it normal most of the time and when its fully laden i will have the extra poke for up banks etc
Cheers for all the replies.
Matt
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me personally would go for the 2.5 as it is a bmw unit and very very reliable,not to say that the 2.2 isn't cos it is,but 2.5 bmw is very good :y :y :y
I think you're opening a can of worms with that one!
The 2.5TD is an old unit, nothing like the newer BMW TDs which are amongst the best available in terms of performance and refinement -- I wouldn't say no to a 335d coupe mated to a 6-speed box. Can't speak for reliability though, I have no idea.
Personally I'm much happier with my dual fuel 3.0, much smoother and more powerful than either the TD or DTI, and cheaper to run too. I'd consider a modern diesel but not either of the rather agricultural units that are available in the Omega.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
Our standard car pulls a reasonably heavy box van trailer 85% of it's life and as mentioned before, cruises lovely @ 60mph (2000rpm). Hills are not a problem and you don't really need to drop a gear to overtake. M-Tek Performance in hull are the guys to deal with (member on here :y) special deal at the moment also, usual upgrade is to around 147bhp iirc. Supposed to be better fuel economy also.
The 2.2DTi also has about the same torque figure as the 3.2 V6 petrol which makes it feel quite gutsy. Cruise control is where it's at though :y
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Is yours an 2.2 dti auto? , if so is it smooth?
Matt
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^^^^^^^^^^^
That's the catch sire!.....2.2DTi is only available as a manual! The 2.5 was available as both a manual and auto. Still wouldn't have one though. As Paul says, they're old hat now.
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Smooth, yes, it's as smooth as you drive it, it's an omega after all! It needs time to warm up, after which, yes, power delivery is smooth in all gears.
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I'm with Paul - dual fuel V6
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not gonna get involved as to which is the best of the 2 engines but, what i will say is i bought my 2.5 for a reason and while it was ok it was a disapointment >:( till i looked into it and found just how much vauxhall had strangled it so as to make their, cheap gearboxs last for a while!!!
Yes it may be old tech type engine but believe it or not it is fairly bullet proof when looked after with oil changes, however the whole point of this post is to say
the difference between a chipped 2.5 and a std 2.5 is amazing so before you make a decision try both, :) and the difference between a chipped 2.5 and a chipped 2.2 is a whole differnt ball game!!! dont know where your located but if you want to try mine your more than welcome and i can assure you you wont be disappointed :y fuel consumption? well normal everyday driving on amixture of a and b roads back and forwards o work it regularly clocks around 44,48 if i am in no hurry, towing a twin axle 5 berth caravan it clocks 29mpg, and the engine is damn smooth compared to the fourpot, so oil changes aside there really isnt a lot wrong with it apart from vauxhall meddling!!!
Omegtoy
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im with davlad all the way here , a dti with cruise takes smooth to a new level especially when towing
Also no timing belts to change as its a chain [bulletproof) engine :y
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I am sold now , whats the best spec you can get with the 2.2 dti engine? , i mean can you still get elite?
Matt
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Likewise, I will be meeting M-Tek at Ferrybridge next week, don't know where you are at but you are welcome to come and try the 2.2dti before and after the re-map. :y
Just a point on the cruise, my CD spec did not have it but only took me to replace the stalk and everything worked, I have seen other say the same thing.
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Yes! the 2.2dti does come in Elite spec.
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me personally would go for the 2.5 as it is a bmw unit and very very reliable,not to say that the 2.2 isn't cos it is,but 2.5 bmw is very good :y :y :y
Err, sorry, would have to disagree.
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As you all know, I have a 2.5TD Elite.
Being 6 cylinder, it will always be a smoother engine than the 2.2. In standard form, its awful. Chipped makes it more drivable, and economical. However, I would not recommend an auto with this engine (even ar35) - it loses so much power through it.
The short oil changes are no problem, as you want to be changing diesel oil every 3k anyway, due to the particulates.
No small TD will have lots of torque low down, as its utterly reliant on the turbo.
The BMW unit is not as good as uneducated people think.
The 2.2 seems to have its fair share of reliability/performance issues.
My advice - find one you fancy, and test drive it.
BTW, I have found the V6 to be very reliable, no niggles, with only one breakdown in 4yrs of ownership (rather crank sensor), which makes it most reliable vehicle I've had.
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TB,
You have transplanted a diesel engine havent you. So what diesel engine would you recommend to fit in the omega to give decent economy and decent performance?
Matt
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No small TD will have lots of torque low down, as its utterly reliant on the turbo.
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That's certainly true of my 1.7 low blow Astra. F*** all happens till almost 2000rpm when the turbo spins up. :( :(
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No small TD will have lots of torque low down, as its utterly reliant on the turbo.
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That's certainly true of my 1.7 low blow Astra. F*** all happens till almost 2000rpm when the turbo spins up. :( :(
Same for all (car) turbos, need the turbo to be singing before the power comes...
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TB,
You have transplanted a diesel engine havent you. So what diesel engine would you recommend to fit in the omega to give decent economy and decent performance?
Matt
V6 2.5 manual. Its not a diesel, and its a V6.
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So you dont rate diesels i take it?
Matt
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I removed the cat on my Rover diesel and the turbo now starts to kick in about 1500 RPM and the good thing about a diesel is its only a visual smoke test for the MOT :y
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So you dont rate diesels i take it?
Matt
I'm actually a diesel fan, have been for years.But the 2.5, esp manual, can match the mpg except on decent motorway runs.
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Yeah can see your point. I just wish the v6's werent so fiddly.
Matt
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Yeah can see your point. I just wish the v6's werent so fiddly.
Matt
I think TB will tell you that the BMW 2.5 TD is more fiddly than the VX V6........... Read the threads about all the problems he encountered with his TD and I think you'll agree
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Yeah can see your point. I just wish the v6's werent so fiddly.
Matt
I think TB will tell you that the BMW 2.5 TD is more fiddly than the VX V6........... Read the threads about all the problems he encountered with his TD and I think you'll agree
Nail/Head/Bang on!
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I just think the v6's always have problems. My brother has just bought a facelift 2.5v6 auto. Looks lovely , engine bay spotless , no rocker leaking , rams work a treat. But.... pull up after a journey and a strongish smell of coolant. Coolant spotlessly clean red.
Why is it every omega i have clapped eyes on has a problem somewhere?!?!
Matt
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I just think the v6's always have problems. My brother has just bought a facelift 2.5v6 auto. Looks lovely , engine bay spotless , no rocker leaking , rams work a treat. But.... pull up after a journey and a strongish smell of coolant. Coolant spotlessly clean red.
Why is it every omega i have clapped eyes on has a problem somewhere?!?!
Matt
Years of previous neglect ;)
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Nail/Head/Bang on!
Using Sammy sledgehammer?
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Nail/Head/Bang on!
Using Sammy sledgehammer?
Sammy is still missing :'(
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Hi Alan,
Power it is LOL
See you Thursday ;)