Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Grimble on 08 June 2008, 14:57:23
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Calling all Omega techies
Recently my 1996 Omega 2.0l 8-valve petrol estate has developed an intermitent (and very irritating) problem where it wont start up. It could have been running fine all day, I stop at a shop, turn off, get the shopping, get back in, turn ignition - wont fire up. Try several times - no luck, walk home, go back later - it starts! What's that all about?
I've changed the fuel pump circuit relay (p/n 09 049 4959) but no difference.
One of my sons-in-law suggests it may be to do with the imobilizer. Is this a candidate? If so what can be done about it?
All sensible suggestions gratefully received.
Thanks in expectation.
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Have you tried a paperclip test yet?????
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Hi Dazzler
No, what's that then?
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Check that EML light works, then carry out the PaperClip test
iaw the following link:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189022687
Your symptoms are similar to what a failing Crank Sensor would
give. It will work cold, but when warmed up starts to fail.
But do the test and see what you get.
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Dazzler beat me to it. :)
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Thanks guys, I'll do it now.
Back soon.
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Codes: 73, 13, 145, 31
Where can I find what they mean?
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There are some links on the 2nd post on the PaperClip
test.
There are also some here.
http://www.topbuzz.co.uk/
As your's is the old 2.0l 8 Valve, I would guess at using the
Bosch Motronic 2 digit codes which would seem to be the same
as the v6 models.
13 Oxygen sensor
31 No RPM signal
73 Oxygen Sensor
145 Incorrect Immobiliser Signal
As you can't test the 2.0l with engine running, I'm not sure if
you can get a code 19(incorrect crank sensor signal) with the
paperclip test??
Anyway, code 31 is a crank sensor fault that the V6's always show
up with the engine not running so you'll have to guided by the
Tech2 experts on here as to whether you can get the confirming
code 19 to show up on an 8V 2.0L.
The oxygen codes are showing that the sensor in your exhaust
is upsetting the ECU.
The immobiliser fault is showing an intermittant immobiliser fault.
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Thanks Grumpy.
I can understand the 31 as engine not running.
Re. 73 & 13, is it a case of replacing the sensors or can anything be done to rectify without replacement?
Re. 145, can the Immobiliser be immobilised/disconnected to see if problem goes away. If prob. persists can immob. be replaced?
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Does the EML flash when it doesn't start? Is it a RF or IR remote?
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EML remains on steady when trying to start.
Sorry, don't understand 2nd question.
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EML remains on steady when trying to start.
Sorry, don't understand 2nd question.
The remote for unlocking, is it Radio Frequency or Infrared (black dome near sunroof)
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Thanks TheBoy
Radio Frequency. However, I had to replace the ignition barrel & key in March 06 and the central locking fob hasn't worked since. I have to unlock with door key and then insert & turn on ignition key to stop alarm. I lock with door key and that turns alarm on.
Is that any help?
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Thanks TheBoy
Radio Frequency. However, I had to replace the ignition barrel & key in March 06 and the central locking fob hasn't worked since. I have to unlock with door key and then insert & turn on ignition key to stop alarm. I lock with door key and that turns alarm on.
Is that any help?
ok, if eml not flashing, not immobiliser related
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That seems to point the finger at the O2/airmass sensors then, unless you know of other poss. causes.
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o2 wouldn't stop starting. MAF failures are rare, and would have thought if that bad, would substitute. Might be worth checking for fuel and sparks
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When running (about 80% of the time) the engine runs sweet, both idling and acceleration/under load. Even when wont start there's healthy sparks.
Could there be an intermitent flow &/or elect. fault with fuel pump?
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When running (about 80% of the time) the engine runs sweet, both idling and acceleration/under load. Even when wont start there's healthy sparks.
Could there be an intermitent flow &/or elect. fault with fuel pump?
Have to check for fuel when it wont start I think...
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Is there a standard procedure?
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Is there a standard procedure?
Must be a schrader valve etc on fuel rail I would have thought? Don't know on 2.2...
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The problem you have, Grimble, is that your defect is intermittent.
That means that you will be carry out all your checks when
there is likely to be no fault present. So they will probably
check out as ok, most of the time.
As said previously, your symptoms are what you would expect
when a Crank Sensor is starting to fail.
You can't PaperClip a 2.0L 8V running.
You do have a code 31, no RPM signal.
So what I would like to know, is what would you get on a PaperClip
test on a healthy 2.0L 8V?
12, 31, 12??? Same as a V6? (31 because the engine's not running).
Or same as a 2.0L 16V, you only get Crank Sensor fault logged
when you have a fault??
I'm afraid, not having an 8 valver, I don't know.
Can anyone clear this up?
Off to watch WW3 between Germany and Poland now.
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I think, like the 16v, it will still start without a crank sensor, more difficult, but will start.
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Thanks alot guys for narrowing down the possibilities. I realise that intermittent faults can be very hard to pin down.
I'll follow up the crank sensor and fuel line options and let you know how things develop. Really appreciate your time and expertise. Be back tomorrow, hopefully.
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Thanks alot guys for narrow down the possibilities. I realise that intermittent faults can be very hard to pin down.
I'll follow up the crank sensor and fuel line options and let you know how things develop. Really appreciate your time and expertise. Be back tomorrow, hopefully.
Good Luck, and post back your results
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Here's the latest:
Monday a.m. put some Redex in tank and carb. air inlet. Engine ran a bit uneven for a few mins but then settled down. Gave it a 12 mile run, pushing the speed and acceleration. Ran beautifully :). Stopped at local Tesco for some milk - wouldn't start >:(. went back up several times but no joy.
Went back Tues a.m. - started first turn :). Drove home.
Son-in-law suggested check ignition key chip/battery. Put chip into spare key (hardly ever been used). It has started every time since then :question. I know it's only been 2 days so I'm not totally convinced yet. I'll post again if the prob. returns.
PS - repeated paper clip test and only get code 31 (no RPM) as engine not running. Other 3 codes disappeared!
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Hi, I have the same problem. Just with V6. In the morning it will start without any problems and runs smooth. Later when u switch of the engine it won't start for couple hours. And this started after I have touched camshaft sensor. Before that everything was fine. Just dunno now what to do. Do I have to change that sensor or the problem is in some where else ???
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Hi Marinis69, you have my sympathy. It's so frustrating >:(
From your description I suspect the camshaft sensor is the cause. I'm no expert, but I would double check that the sensor is fitted correctly and pushed right home and there are no loose wires. Also check that anything else you disturbed, eg plug leads, are refitted properly and securely.
I see that you have started your own topic on this so I'm sure you will get some good advice from the experts.
Best wishes
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Hi guys
After more than 2 months of trouble-free starting the problem is back.
I have swapped the chip between both keys but no joy – engine turns but no sign of life (tank quarter full). I feel that the immobilizer is not being disarmed when the key is inserted/turned. Can the immobilizer be disabled in any way to see if this makes any difference? If so, how?
Suggestions gratefully received.
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Hi guys
After more than 2 months of trouble-free starting the problem is back.
I have swapped the chip between both keys but no joy – engine turns but no sign of life (tank quarter full). I feel that the immobilizer is not being disarmed when the key is inserted/turned. Can the immobilizer be disabled in any way to see if this makes any difference? If so, how?
Suggestions gratefully received.
I suspect the immobiliser is a red herring as if this was the case then the car may well start and then die plus the ecu light would flash.
Cam sensor at fault would also not stop the engine starting.
What are the stored codes now?
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Hi Marks DTM
Current codes: 145 & 31 (engine not running)
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Hi guys
Here's the latest. Found the culprit - fuel pump caput!
Perry's, main dealer, wanted £185 for new pump, 2 days on order.
Local Discount Motor Accessories - £120 for genuine new Bosch pump or £98 for after-market replacement, within 1 hour.
An hour's work to remove old pump, fit new one and reassemble. Started first turn. Job done.
Hope this helps anyone with same prob.
Best wishes, Graham