Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Agemo on 22 August 2008, 09:19:24
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OK 2000 CDX TD, Was running perfect up until last night, went to start the car, engine turning over but not firing. After a couple of attempts, it started, then ran fine. Tried it this morning, same effect, pumped the throttle & it burst into life, running perfect again. Obviously there is something wrong, I would probably start with the glowplugs, but have limited experience of Diesels so would appreciate any advice. I have no warning lights up, and wish there was a paperclip test I could do. There is plenty of fuel in the tank, and I don't suspect filters as it revs oK when started. Thanks.
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Some TDs you can paperclip, so worth a go. Probably will come up with 49 (from memory), glow plug general error.
You can measure the glow plugs from relay box next to battery - all should be around 1 ohm
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Hi, Thanks for the super quick reply. I will have a go at paperclip test, I assume it is still bridging 5 & 6? I do have a multi-meter, but would need talking through the test if convenient. I hope I come up with a result soon, I have to leave for work soon.
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Latest - Tried paperclip test, came up with 1 2 - 1 2 repeating, no other codes, not sure if this means there are no faults stored, or that the test can't be done on this particular engine.
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Sounds like it might be the lift pump in the tank
I had a similar situation which was solved by replacement
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It does sound like a glow problem or fuel starvation - is the tank on or around 20 litres, parked on a hill? This could let some air in and cause slow starting in the morning. The lift pumps are prone to just stopping.
How long does your glow light stay on for? Have you tried glowing 2-3 times before starting?
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Latest - Tried paperclip test, came up with 1 2 - 1 2 repeating, no other codes, not sure if this means there are no faults stored, or that the test can't be done on this particular engine.
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Means its paperclipable, but no stored codes.
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Sounds like it might be the lift pump in the tank
I had a similar situation which was solved by replacement
OR
It does sound like a glow problem or fuel starvation - is the tank on or around 20 litres, parked on a hill? This could let some air in and cause slow starting in the morning. The lift pumps are prone to just stopping.
How long does your glow light stay on for? Have you tried glowing 2-3 times before starting?
right, thanks for the replies, as for the lift pump or fuel starvation, good thinking, but when started there is no lack of fuel, it pulls like a train. even the S button makes it leap forward like a big fast leaping thing.
the glowplug light stays on for about 4 seconds, I am assuming this is about normal, it seems a good idea to try letting it "glow" for several times before trying it. I will do that test tomorrow morning.
As for the car being "paperclippable" but not storing codes, there would be no point in the test then. Shame.
I am willing to try the lift pump in the tank, as there is apparently a filter in there, I would like to see this.
Thanks for the ideas, I will update this thread when I have tried "glowing" several times.
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Does it start better with more fuel?
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Does it start better with more fuel?
I think I see where you are coming from, I will bang a few more gallons in tomorrow, then wit until it cools down and try it. Are you thinking lift pump then?
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"How long does your glow light stay on for? Have you tried glowing 2-3 times before starting"
Thanks platty, i tried allowing the glowplugs go through their cycle four times, the the engine started immediately. Brilliant, now I know the glowplugs need changing, (I suppose they ALL need chsnging, perhaps it's only half of them?) I now need a little advice as to how to do the job. Gave the car a run, plenty of oomph, although on tickover, it dses seem a little lumpy, and there is a tad more vibration than normal, so I do suspect I may have a blocked injector. Is there any way of testing them?
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My tractor is exactly the same .......
It has new injection pump, No.4 injector, glow-plugs, in-tank pump/swirl chamber/tank clinically cleaned, and fuel filter changed.
I've thrown a helluva lot of dosh at it, but the warm-start problem still persists.
BMW's crazy idea of not allowing the glow-plugs to even flash on/off under warm engine conditions seems to be the root cause. Apparently, certain Land Rover models which use the same 2.5TD lump suffer similarly, although 2.5TD-powered BMWs don't.
I've taken Omegatoy's and The Boy's advice, and am soon to 'chip' the tractor, as doing this remaps the electronics and cures the problem, effectively putting things back to full BMW spec.
Once mine's been chipped, I'll post a reply with the results .... !
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Thanks Sethsmate. I keep hearing about BMW engine spec being better than Vauxhall. I look forward to hearing how the chip goes. I must admit the car was better last week, I have slight vibration, and it used to start perfectly well. I must have a dirty injector at least, as well as one or more faulty glowplugs.
Did you fit nrand new injector? Or go for exchange?
Thanks again.
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If it starts ok when warm but troublesome when cold then first call woud be glow-plugs. Mine all of a sudden would not start when cold (but mine was in January) fine once warmed up until cold again.
Had the glow-plugs checked and they showed up as more than one at fault. If your plugs have been in for say approaching 90,000/100,000 miles then they must be getting tired.
I also have a vibration from somewhere but goes when warm, been checked over can't find out where it's coming from, me thinks it could be the cat as it started vibrating after I had a new exhaust from cat back fitted last year.
Mick
Mick
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Thanks Sethsmate. I keep hearing about BMW engine spec being better than Vauxhall. I look forward to hearing how the chip goes. I must admit the car was better last week, I have slight vibration, and it used to start perfectly well. I must have a dirty injector at least, as well as one or more faulty glowplugs.
Did you fit nrand new injector? Or go for exchange?
Thanks again.
No.4 injector was new - it cost around £300 .... !
The inlet manifold had to come off to change it, as the connector couldn't be accessed.
Regarding your vibration problem:
I'm assuming that this is an erratic idling fault, so fill the fuel filter with Forte or Diesel Magic, and run it for a day or two. Hopefully, this method will shift the gremlins, and you'll not end up shelling out mega bucks like I've had to .... !
Erratic idling seems to be quite common on these beasts.
Let us know how you get on fella!
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Thanks for the replies. It is not firing on all cylinders on tickover, but OK above 900 revs, that is the vibration due to erratic idling. As for filling the fuel filter, never heard of that, but will try. Actually the car was running fine until I used Diesel Magic, put one bottle in the tank just to keep the system clean. Not used Forte before, I will have a go with something. If I do need injectors, is the scrappy an option?
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Dieseal Magic in tank doesn't really do much, as its too watered down. Hence straight in the fuel filter (which you may as well replace at same time)
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Thanks for the replies. It is not firing on all cylinders on tickover, but OK above 900 revs, that is the vibration due to erratic idling. As for filling the fuel filter, never heard of that, but will try. Actually the car was running fine until I used Diesel Magic, put one bottle in the tank just to keep the system clean. Not used Forte before, I will have a go with something. If I do need injectors, is the scrappy an option?
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Before you go any further, take The Boy's, (and mine), advice - change the fuel filter.
Fill it with Forte Advanced Formula Diesel Treatment, a yellow-topped bottle. DO NOT USE their Specialist Injector Cleaner, (which also has a yellow top).
However, before doing this, try (difficult, but possible), tightening the filter when erratic idling occurs. I wouldn't mind betting that it'll idle perfectly thereafter.
Send me a 'PM' with your number this evening and I'll try talking you thro' it if you wish.
Regarding injectors - reconditioned ones are the only option in my opinion. Don't go down this road just yet .... 1
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May be worth checking the spill pipes between the injectors too!
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Hi Gents, thanks for the replies. OK The Boy says renew filter, will do, and will first fill with Sethsmates Forte Advanced Formula Diesel Treatment. I don't actually know where the filter is yet. Same place as Petrol one? I have erratic idling all the time on tickover, but will try tightening the filter. Am hoping I don't need to replace injectors. Thanks all.
:y
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May be worth checking the spill pipes between the injectors too!
Hi Lazydocker, To be honest i don't actually know what there are.
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They link between the injectors and were a common thing to go on all my other diesels! TBH you should be able to smell diesel under the bonnet if they're leaking!
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They link between the injectors and were a common thing to go on all my other diesels! TBH you should be able to smell diesel under the bonnet if they're leaking!
Right, thanks, will take a look in the morning. :y
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OK, I have been out & bought a new diesel filter, but can't get hold of any Forte advanced formula Diesel treatment, I looked on 'tinternet & apparently it's for the trade only. I will have to opt for another make, or see if I can get it on the likes of ebay. The engine is missing on tickover, but seems fine when over about 900 RPM. I hope i am not doing cats damage if unburned Diesel is going into the exhaust.
Hoping to get something sorted soon, but am working for next two days. I do appreciaste the help given on this site.
Will keep you all informed.
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diesel magic is sold in any halfords store buddy!!!! :y
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Appreciate Diesel Magic can be found everywhere, I have used it before, in the tank, but I would prefer the Forte stuff if I can get some. On the other hand, I could fill the filter with Diesel Magic this afternoon, Hmmm, tempting.
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Filter, if you haven't found it yet, is bolted to osf suspension turrent.
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Sorry, found the filter, meant to post the info. Do you change filters without worrying about air getting in the system? Thanks TheBoy.
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Sorry, found the filter, meant to post the info. Do you change filters without worrying about air getting in the system? Thanks TheBoy.
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Don't worry too much about air getting in - its usually self bleeding. Just ensure the fuel filter is brimmed with Diesel Magic (and diesel if you need to top up more).
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Changed fuel filter, filled it with Redex first, (could not get hold of Forte) No air problems, thanks TheBoy, No difference, I now suspect injectors are fine and the problem is something else.
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Just in case you haven't fixed this yet, I had trouble with starting my Omega 2.2 DTi a few months ago. It turned out to be the earth on the starter motor not being great. It would turn the engine over but not fire.
Electrician put a new earth on the engine block and all has been fine since. It also cured a problem with the temperature gauge saying it was red hot when it wasn't.
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Hmmm, interesting about the starter earth, it starts OK, but the idle is not right. Anything over 900 RPM & it runs perfect. Anyone know of any tests that can be done?
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Just back from a short holiday with the caravan in tow.
My warm-starting problem has disappeared after I changed the battery ...... !!!!!!!
The old battery was only just 'below par' and the alternator and earthing was fine.
Two factors come into play here:
1. The new battery positively whizzes the engine turn-over, so although slow warm-starting is probably still there, due to vastly increased cranking speed, the tractor bursts into life quickly.
2. Due to increased battery power, the ECU has experienced some sort of re-map, thus allowing easier warm-starts.
What d'ya think, chaps ..... ?
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This is exactly it.
The other day my son forgot to turn off the backlight and it stayed like that for two days. Cold startup was only just okay, and warm startup was difficult. It remained so for a couple of days, and it was only when the battery was again fully charged that startup operation returned to normal.
A discharged—or bad for that matter—battery will indeed cause warm startup issues.