Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: bobk on 06 October 2008, 18:46:41
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I would appreciate any thoughts on this problem as I’m unsure if I’ve got a head gasket problem or not.
My 3ltr elite (1998) has just had the rocker gaskets changed, then got the engine management light on, checked the codes, quite a few but in doing so got a bit mixed up. So done them again now only three codes 19, 59 and 48 ?. Two weeks later I notice that on pulling away from a roundabout there was lots of steam from the back. At the next junction after a couple of minutes on tick over, lots of steam.
Checking the header tank it seems to be pressurising, Steam/heavy vapour from Both exhausts. Have read a post by JamesV6CDX on head gaskets which says that its more liable to be down to other things possibly heater bypass valve. Could this be the case (hoping) if so how do I check it. Sorry it’s long winded
Bobk
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Unlikely to be HG.
Crank sensor on way out, but unrelated.
Check for cooling system leaks first...
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I think you just need an oil change and filter.
If you do mainly short journeys the gung isnt being burn off and on these cooler days its steaming.Look at the oil filer neck if you see white mayo looking goo, thats the stuff that blocks up the breathers and caused you to change the cam cover gaskets. Take for a blast down the A46 that will clear it.
Regular oil change cant beat it ;)
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No leaks on cooling system. What make you say the crank sensor is on the way out?.
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No goo on oil filler, oil ok not milky. when i say steam from exhaust, I mean lots of steam.
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What make you say the crank sensor is on the way out?.
Code 19 is crank sensor fault.
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Are you loosing any oil or water ?
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On a sheet i've got 19 is incorrect RPM signal, which I thought came up because the engine wasn't running. Is this correct or am i being dumb. also is there anything other than a HG that could cause pressure in the cooling system.
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Are you loosing any oil or water ?
No oil loss, but with header tank cap off a quick rev and the water come up and floods out.
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No & NO
Run your engine with the expansion tank cap off and look for bubbles.
Bubbles = head gasket probabley
No bubbles gasket ok.
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On a sheet i've got 19 is incorrect RPM signal, which I thought came up because the engine wasn't running. Is this correct or am i being dumb. also is there anything other than a HG that could cause pressure in the cooling system.
19 is a failing crank sensor that will leave you stuffed at the most inconvenient time possible. Been there, done that, now (like many v6 owners) carry a spare :-[
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do you lose coolant?
steam is normal, and more visible with cold mornings. Sign of good combustion
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No oil loss, but with header tank cap off a quick rev and the water come up and floods out
DONT REV IT
only light blip
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No & NO
Run your engine with the expansion tank cap off and look for bubbles.
Bubbles = head gasket probabley
No bubbles gasket ok.
Could be daft or something but whats puzzling me is that I've got lots of steam/vapor coming out of both exhausts but with my limited knowledge hasn't the v6 got two separate heads and seperate exhausts?.
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One cooling system.
2 heads
Exhaust has common back box (1 only)
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One cooling system.
2 heads
Exhaust has common back box (1 only)
Yes I do feel daft!
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Im in Cov, if you want me to have a look :y
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Im in Cov, if you want me to have a look :y
Cars getting on a bit, a bit scabby in parts, but I love it. Should I get rid or have a go at the head gasket. Could i do it?. These are the questions I need to answer, but your offer would be very appreciated.
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Im in Cov, if you want me to have a look :y
Cars getting on a bit, a bit scabby in parts, but I love it. Should I get rid or have a go at the head gasket. Could i do it?. These are the questions I need to answer, but your offer would be very appreciated.
No harm in having a look, see if we can eliminate a few things ;)
Im in Holbrooks, you anywhere near? if you are i'll pm you my address if you can get here one day ;)
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Im in Cov, if you want me to have a look :y
Cars getting on a bit, a bit scabby in parts, but I love it. Should I get rid or have a go at the head gasket. Could i do it?. These are the questions I need to answer, but your offer would be very appreciated.
No harm in having a look, see if we can eliminate a few things ;)
Im in Holbrooks, you anywhere near? if you are i'll pm you my address if you can get here one day ;)
I'm over by the airport, but cars in shilton at the moment. could see if it'll get there without getting too hot. How do we pass phone numbers or e-mail addresses?.
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Im in Cov, if you want me to have a look :y
Cars getting on a bit, a bit scabby in parts, but I love it. Should I get rid or have a go at the head gasket. Could i do it?. These are the questions I need to answer, but your offer would be very appreciated.
No harm in having a look, see if we can eliminate a few things ;)
Im in Holbrooks, you anywhere near? if you are i'll pm you my address if you can get here one day ;)
I'm over by the airport, but cars in shilton at the moment. could see if it'll get there without getting too hot. How do we pass phone numbers or e-mail addresses?.
Look at the top of the page, under your name, you will have a new message ;)
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Im in Cov, if you want me to have a look :y
Cars getting on a bit, a bit scabby in parts, but I love it. Should I get rid or have a go at the head gasket. Could i do it?. These are the questions I need to answer, but your offer would be very appreciated.
No harm in having a look, see if we can eliminate a few things ;)
Im in Holbrooks, you anywhere near? if you are i'll pm you my address if you can get here one day ;)
I'm over by the airport, but cars in shilton at the moment. could see if it'll get there without getting too hot. How do we pass phone numbers or e-mail addresses?.
Look at the top of the page, under your name, you will have a new message ;)
Any particular time or day for me to contact you. Going to have to go offline soon, Many thanks again.
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Im in Cov, if you want me to have a look :y
Cars getting on a bit, a bit scabby in parts, but I love it. Should I get rid or have a go at the head gasket. Could i do it?. These are the questions I need to answer, but your offer would be very appreciated.
No harm in having a look, see if we can eliminate a few things ;)
Im in Holbrooks, you anywhere near? if you are i'll pm you my address if you can get here one day ;)
I'm over by the airport, but cars in shilton at the moment. could see if it'll get there without getting too hot. How do we pass phone numbers or e-mail addresses?.
Look at the top of the page, under your name, you will have a new message ;)
Any particular time or day for me to contact you. Going to have to go offline soon, Many thanks again.
Anytime :y
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Ok, i've just been and had a look at this and the symtoms are as follows,
Header tank is clear so its not oil cooler, thats that one out of the way.
Its losing water slowly, no sign of leaks from what i can see, dip stick and tube are clear, filler cap has mayo along with filler neck but no further down, its not breathing heavy from either of these. Exhaust is throwing out extra vapour as far as im concerned although not excessive, there is a slight smell of fuel from the header tank but im not sure if its just me coz im looking for it :-/
Im not convinced its HG, but there are some small signs of it.
Opinions please ;)
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One cooling system.
2 heads
Exhaust has common back box (1 only)
my 3 litre has got twin pipe back box which i'm 99% sure is twin pipes through as well i.e. if one bank of v6 goes you can see which one it is.
if you got steam out of both you've either got both HG gone :o ;D or like TB says it's a sign of good combustion :y
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The only thought left is a parcial mis fuel
say about 5 litres of diesel in a full tank of petrol might just fit the bil
Because it cant burn completely you would get it smoke.
A spark plug check would prove or dis prove wether a mis fuel has taken place, the plugs would be black but dry.
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The only thought left is a parcial mis fuel
say about 5 litres of diesel in a full tank of petrol might just fit the bil
Because it cant burn completely you would get it smoke.
A spark plug check would prove or dis prove wether a mis fuel has taken place, the plugs would be black but dry.
Doesn't explain the water loss though :-/
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Yep your right.
I guess a pressure test of the cooling system is called for.
>:(
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Slow water leak with no signs is usually HBV...twin pipes out the back of an elite are not seperated per side...just there to look good
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Slow water leak with no signs is usually HBV...twin pipes out the back of an elite are not seperated per side...just there to look good
really? ::)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj210/jakeunderhill/Exhaust%20change/DSC02177.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj210/jakeunderhill/Exhaust%20change/DSC02178.jpg)
Not GM original but pattern part from Partco ;)
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Lol....see those perforations in the internals.....its those that link the two together via the box......
On the case of the headgasket, I would want to see a coolant pressure test with the plenum and inlet stripped out in order to see further what issues might be there.
Remember that the coolant system should be presurised.
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Lol....see those perforations in the internals.....its those that link the two together via the box......
On the case of the headgasket, I would want to see a coolant pressure test with the plenum and inlet stripped out in order to see further what issues might be there.
Remember that the coolant system should be presurised.
Normal pressure as far as im concerned
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Sounding less like head gasket by the minute.....
Here is a pic of the head with the various ways colour coded:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Headinfocoloured.jpg)
Blue- water
Red - high pressue oil
Brown - oil return
So the question is....what is leaking where!
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Re-reading the original symptoms....it sounds even less like HG.....and far more like standard exhaust output from an efficient burn with a large exhaust setup and ceramic cats.
It it was a failure of the water to bore seals (fire rings) then the coolant would be very excessively pressurised with something letting go (i.e. the pressure relief valve on the coolant tank cap)
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Re-reading the original symptoms....it sounds even less like HG.....and far more like standard exhaust output from an efficient burn with a large exhaust setup and ceramic cats.
It it was a failure of the water to bore seals (fire rings) then the coolant would be very excessively pressurised with something letting go (i.e. the pressure relief valve on the coolant tank cap)
Agreed, and it hasn't
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Lol....see those perforations in the internals.....its those that link the two together via the box......
On the case of the headgasket, I would want to see a coolant pressure test with the plenum and inlet stripped out in order to see further what issues might be there.
Remember that the coolant system should be presurised.
but this is a rear silencer not a middle box with baffles etc :-?
i thought these work by absorbing some sound through the perforations into insulation? :-/
can't see how the gas route can be forced through any baffles as the pipe is deffo straight through :-?
ps sorry for the thread hijack :-X
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but this is a rear silencer not a middle box with baffles etc :-?
i thought these work by absorbing some sound through the perforations into insulation? :-/
can't see how the gas route can be forced through any baffles as the pipe is deffo straight through :-?
ps sorry for the thread hijack :-X
If the internals of an Omega's centre exhaust boxes are the same as a Senator's then they're straight through too. I cut open an OE exhaust & copied it.
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Re-reading the original symptoms....it sounds even less like HG.....and far more like standard exhaust output from an efficient burn with a large exhaust setup and ceramic cats.
It it was a failure of the water to bore seals (fire rings) then the coolant would be very excessively pressurised with something letting go (i.e. the pressure relief valve on the coolant tank cap)
On the journey to work (about 6 Miles) the further I went the more vapor out the back especially after a short stop. This was more than normal even for a cold morning. Temp gauge didn't get hot on the 2 journeys I've made, then the car was parked up, so I don't know if its been run long enough to get short of water and pressurize the system to the point the cap valve would vent. Your thoughts please.
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Can do a pressure test?
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Can do a pressure test?
Tried to get garage to do a pressure test, but booked up to next week
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Think Ive got to the bottom of it, Looking very much like it's the head.
I took the top off down to the oil cooler, looked wet around the thermostat (see photo) hoped it wasn't the head after all.
(http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp147/rkeirle/Omega%20Photos/DSC00359.jpg)
(http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp147/rkeirle/Omega%20Photos/DSC00355.jpg)
Then I took the plugs out, back pot offside, all others look dry
(http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp147/rkeirle/Omega%20Photos/DSC00363.jpg)
think this seals it. What do you think?
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Are you sure that water didn't go into the V when you removed the plenum coolant hoses? :-/
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Plugs were only removed after the plenum and manifolds had been removed.
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Plugs were only removed after the plenum and manifolds had been removed.
Sorry didn't read it properly first time, water was drawn from the system via the bottom hose so pipes to the plenum were empty. Have other photos that look like its been getting wet for some time.
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You say its not geting hot.....in which case that points to the stat which would also cause it to run rich when warm and might help explain some of your vapour.
What you found in the valley points to a weeping oil cooler plate or stat seal....still no evidence of head trouble
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You say its not geting hot.....in which case that points to the stat which would also cause it to run rich when warm and might help explain some of your vapour.
What you found in the valley points to a weeping oil cooler plate or stat seal....still no evidence of head trouble
It was the little droplets of water in the one pot that made me now think is was head gasket, all other pots were dry. It seems a pressure test is what I need but I can't buy or hire one, any one know where I can buy one?.