Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: MaxV6 on 09 November 2008, 01:47:11

Title: oh buggerit
Post by: MaxV6 on 09 November 2008, 01:47:11
Driving home from a birthday Dinner (mine....    ) this evening, about an hour ago....  the orange engine management light comes on, the power dies, then the oil and brake light (standard ignition on, engine not running pair) join it....  

no recent previous signs of trouble, no rough running, no nothing.....  

i managed to roll off the A34 , down to the botley road and into a parking space...  

no warnings active in the MID ....   not in a position to do a paperclip test right now...having had to call a cab to get the mrs home as well.....


just the birthday present i wanted...  a dead miggy.
 :'( :-[

Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: johnnycboy on 09 November 2008, 08:14:04
sounds like the good old crank sensor scenario.  probably start again when you get back there
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: TheBoy on 09 November 2008, 10:00:10
Guessing our old friend the crank sensor.  If its the plastic type - suspect it is - and you need to fix it quick, I have a spare in the garage (like all sensible V6 owners, I keep a new one handy in the garage)


Only because I've been there, done that ;D
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: TheBoy on 09 November 2008, 10:00:32
Oh, and Happy Birthday MaxV6
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: TheBoy on 09 November 2008, 10:02:17
Just described your symptoms to Mrs TheBoy, she reckons, without prompting, crank sensor as well ;D
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Albatross on 09 November 2008, 10:32:17
Happy Birthday.

Sure it will be fine once you swap out the crank sensor. Chin up.
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: HerefordElite on 09 November 2008, 10:58:25
Happy birthday  :y :y :y

[size=8]sounds like a crank sensor ::) (only coz Mrs TheBoy said)[/size]
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 November 2008, 11:08:24
Happy Birthday :y

And I'll link to my explanation to save redoing it!

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226096942
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: feeutfo on 09 November 2008, 11:23:40
bit worrying they can just cut out mid drive and leave you with no power stearing and breaks. I think ill just change mine now and be done with it. Dont fancy that going when im playing. Could be a disaster.

So, what happens is, due to production line convenience, the cranks sensor wire is routed close to the exhaust? and heat and sometimes oil can bugger the wires and cause an intermitent or in this case sudden failure? My thinking is i change it now and route the cable more safely, thereby lessening the chances of a failure.

In 6 months of ownership i have had 3 instances of cranking on the key and not fireing and am becaming aware of an intermitently very slightly rough idle, although Kevin Wood says his tickover is the same.

 Is the re routeing likely to stop a failure?
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: TheBoy on 09 November 2008, 11:41:12
Quote
bit worrying they can just cut out mid drive and leave you with no power stearing and breaks. I think ill just change mine now and be done with it. Dont fancy that going when im playing. Could be a disaster.

So, what happens is, due to production line convenience, the cranks sensor wire is routed close to the exhaust? and heat and sometimes oil can bugger the wires and cause an intermitent or in this case sudden failure? My thinking is i change it now and route the cable more safely, thereby lessening the chances of a failure.

In 6 months of ownership i have had 3 instances of cranking on the key and not fireing and am becaming aware of an intermitently very slightly rough idle, although Kevin Wood says his tickover is the same.

 Is the re routeing likely to stop a failure?
Like all v6 owners, you should carry a spare ;)

Don't worry about PAS or servo assistance - lacking PAS just needs a bit of man handling, and the brake assistance, seems to be enough vac to slow her up.

I've had the crank sensor go 3 times (same incident, just get getting her going again for a few miles) at 90mph on the French tolls, each time I have been able to pull up gently and safely into their emergency areas (advantage of doing 90 - there is an emergency area every mile or so).
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: TheBoy on 09 November 2008, 11:43:32
As to preventative measures, 2.5/3.0l owners should paperclip as part of weekly/fornightly fluid/tyre check, and look out for code 19.  2.6/3.2 should pedal trick as part of fluid/tyre check, looking out for code 0335.
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 November 2008, 14:37:04
To be honest, they are quite manouverable and stoppable without engien running.....they will stop in a similar distance and steering is certiably heavier but by no means terrible
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Matchless on 09 November 2008, 18:20:23
Quote
To be honest, they are quite manouverable and stoppable without engien running.....they will stop in a similar distance and steering is certiably heavier but by no means terrible

We dont all have your upper body strength, why do you think I always drive the towcar and have you in the towed one?  ;)
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: MaxV6 on 09 November 2008, 18:49:29
lol....  thanks chaps....  you're all having he same thought i did.....  


sadly james appears to have chosen this moment to be on holiday (no doubt  well deserved i might add) so i'll have to pay the local muppet garage to recover the vehicle.......     and do the fix.....    i'm in no position , time wise, or spine wise (neck is acting up at the Moment, probably due to over work....   ) to tackle it, although i know it's straight forward......


(yes i'd have had to pay James, but it feels a LOT better paying him , forum member and mate that he is, than the garage.....  )


  
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: tunnie on 09 November 2008, 19:03:16
it MAY still run! Try and get back there and start it.

If you can get to Bicester i might be able to help
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Andy B on 09 November 2008, 19:28:00
Quote
To be honest, they are quite manouverable and stoppable without engien running.....they will stop in a similar distance and steering is certiably heavier but by no means terrible

Depends whether you're ready for it! If it breaks on the move and takes you unaware .... I very nearly went into a line of parked cars when the (separate) power steering V belt went on my Senator as I pulled onto the works car park. It's very heavy when you're not ready for it. And yes! I've been on the wrong end of a towpole a couple of time with the 'bloody Omega' to know how heavy it is.  :y
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: TheBoy on 09 November 2008, 19:30:55
Quote
Quote
To be honest, they are quite manouverable and stoppable without engien running.....they will stop in a similar distance and steering is certiably heavier but by no means terrible

Depends whether you're ready for it! If it breaks on the move and takes you unaware .... I very nearly went into a line of parked cars when the (separate) power steering V belt went on my Senator as I pulled onto the works car park. It's very heavy when you're not ready for it. And yes! I've been on the wrong end of a towpole a couple of time with the 'bloody Omega' to know how heavy it is.  :y
I don't recall any worries with steering or brakes when crank sensor failed - but then I was more worried about the Automatic Gearbox error that popped up on MID, and the christmas tree dash ;D
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Welung666 on 09 November 2008, 19:31:27
Quote
lol....  thanks chaps....  you're all having he same thought i did.....  


sadly james appears to have chosen this moment to be on holiday (no doubt  well deserved i might add) so i'll have to pay the local muppet garage to recover the vehicle.......     and do the fix.....    i'm in no position , time wise, or spine wise (neck is acting up at the Moment, probably due to over work....   ) to tackle it, although i know it's straight forward......


(yes i'd have had to pay James, but it feels a LOT better paying him , forum member and mate that he is, than the garage.....  )


  

Shame your not closer I'd have done it for you.
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Andy B on 09 November 2008, 19:34:18
Quote
Quote
Quote
To be honest, they are quite manouverable and stoppable without engien running.....they will stop in a similar distance and steering is certiably heavier but by no means terrible

Depends whether you're ready for it! If it breaks on the move and takes you unaware .... I very nearly went into a line of parked cars when the (separate) power steering V belt went on my Senator as I pulled onto the works car park. It's very heavy when you're not ready for it. And yes! I've been on the wrong end of a towpole a couple of time with the 'bloody Omega' to know how heavy it is.  :y
I don't recall any worries with steering or brakes when crank sensor failed - but then I was more worried about the Automatic Gearbox error that popped up on MID, and the christmas tree dash ;D
My comment was re the engine not running ..... same as no aux belt driving power steering.
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: TheBoy on 09 November 2008, 19:58:48
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
To be honest, they are quite manouverable and stoppable without engien running.....they will stop in a similar distance and steering is certiably heavier but by no means terrible

Depends whether you're ready for it! If it breaks on the move and takes you unaware .... I very nearly went into a line of parked cars when the (separate) power steering V belt went on my Senator as I pulled onto the works car park. It's very heavy when you're not ready for it. And yes! I've been on the wrong end of a towpole a couple of time with the 'bloody Omega' to know how heavy it is.  :y
I don't recall any worries with steering or brakes when crank sensor failed - but then I was more worried about the Automatic Gearbox error that popped up on MID, and the christmas tree dash ;D
My comment was re the engine not running ..... same as no aux belt driving power steering.
Nor was mine ;) - a cut engine with an auto, the tc unlocks straight away, hence engine at 0rpm
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Andy B on 09 November 2008, 20:01:10
Quote
....... hence engine at 0rpm

still not with you then.  :-/ 0rpm = no power steering pump :-/
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: TheBoy on 09 November 2008, 20:22:36
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Quote
....... hence engine at 0rpm

still not with you then.  :-/ 0rpm = no power steering pump :-/
Precisely. But still very controllable.
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 09 November 2008, 22:51:33
No, Max, you would not have to pay me a penny. I even have a spare sensor you could have.

I do what I do because I enjoy it, and it's a bit of pocket money - it still doesn't mean I'm going to charge my good friends.  ;)

It's just a shame I'm not around for a while  :'(
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Andy B on 09 November 2008, 23:44:17
Quote
Quote
Quote
....... hence engine at 0rpm

still not with you then.  :-/ 0rpm = no power steering pump :-/
Precisely. But still very controllable.

Which leads me back to where I started.  :y


Quote
Quote
To be honest, they are quite manouverable and stoppable without engien running.....they will stop in a similar distance and steering is certiably heavier but by no means terrible

Depends whether you're ready for it! If it breaks on the move and takes you unaware .... .......

Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: MaxV6 on 12 November 2008, 12:11:50
thanks all...  (esp tunnie and james, TB and MTDM, for the offers of assorted natures ;)  stars that they are)

fixed....  not as bad as it might have been i guess....  (£162 , including recovery, parts, and vat....    i could swear we had breakdown cover on the insurance, but can't find any documentation for it....  so couldn't call it.....    will have to ring insurers and find out.....   )


sensor cables rerouted in the process....    they remembered doing my last elite's .....     bless em...


at least it wasn't a cam belt failure.....   8-)



(must get that done, it's due as of about 50 miles ago...   not overdue....  (40K repacement figure, not old 80k one.... )

James will be getting a call methinks....   :D

Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: MaxV6 on 12 November 2008, 12:15:23
and control with no power is no fun....   yes it can be stered, and stopped, but quite nervously......     and with significant effort.....     managed to roll it about 1/2 a mile after EM light came on, i took the box in to neutral as soon as i realised what was going on.....   rolled up the A34 slip road , down the link road and around on to botley road , in to a car park.....     all with no power....


bit like a kiddies go-cart ....  but more expensive.
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Welung666 on 12 November 2008, 12:16:48
Quote
bit like a kiddies go-cart ....  but more expensive.

and a lot heavier :P
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Mack on 12 November 2008, 12:41:03
Excuse my ignorance, but lots of recommendations to carry a spare crank sensor here - how much is the part typically? Also when do they tend to pack up, is it mileage or time related (just wondering whether to get one in case, mine is 5 years old with 40k on the clock....).
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Elite Pete on 12 November 2008, 16:34:28
Quote
Excuse my ignorance, but lots of recommendations to carry a spare crank sensor here - how much is the part typically? Also when do they tend to pack up, is it mileage or time related (just wondering whether to get one in case, mine is 5 years old with 40k on the clock....).
They go at anytime and at any milage, thats why its recommended to carry a spare ;)
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 November 2008, 19:13:38
They generaly last about 7-8 years or 100K miles.....you might be unlucky and get one fail earlier.

If installed using the improved routing then they do last much longer

So all in, if thats the common failure, they do pretty well!
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: TheBoy on 12 November 2008, 21:06:03
Quote
They generaly last about 7-8 years or 100K miles.....you might be unlucky and get one fail earlier.

If installed using the improved routing then they do last much longer

So all in, if thats the common failure, they do pretty well!
6yrs/114k for mine, so bang on :y

I just wish I knew BEFORE it let me down ;D
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Mack on 13 November 2008, 16:22:20
Might get one then, just to be sure..... hopefully mine's got a few miles left in it though.....

Are they expensive?
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: achoo81 on 13 November 2008, 21:16:03
There are two types 1 is around £40+ the other is around £60+ the difference is the connector 1 has square corners the other has rounded corners so have a look at the connector before you go and buy it.
Title: Re: oh buggerit
Post by: Mack on 14 November 2008, 11:09:17
Cheers, much obliged!