Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: alexandjen on 21 November 2008, 16:57:30
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Going to tackle the cam belt, water pump and crankshaft oil seal this weekend.
Anybody got a list of tools that I will need, don't want to be caught out.
TIA :y
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good set of 1/2 inch sockets, torx bits or 7mm socket for crank pulley
screwdrivers for general stuff haha!
and female torx bits for the cams to turn them when they're out
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oh and 4-6 mm allen key for the tensioner and a small adjustable for the nut on the tensioner while you hold the tension
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oh and 4-6 mm allen key for the tensioner and a small adjustable for the nut on the tensioner while you hold the tension
Excellent , many thanks - looks like I've got everything to do the work then :y
Still got to make something to counter hold the crank while I undo the highly torqued nut to get to the oil seal ::)
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....and a small adjustable for the nut on the tensioner ......
Although adjustable spanners have their uses, I've aquired loads of them over the years, I would say that for use on such an important nut you need to use a proper spanner ie 13mm It's all too easy for ajustables/movers/shifters to slip and you end up with rounded off nuts! Oooer! :y
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....and a small adjustable for the nut on the tensioner ......
Although adjustable spanners have their uses, I've aquired loads of them over the years, I would say that for use on such an important nut you need to use a proper spanner ie 13mm It's all too easy for ajustables/movers/shifters to slip and you end up with rounded off nuts! Oooer! :y
Cheers Andy, yeh I would use the correct size spanner on what is as you said an important nut :y
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Still got to make something to counter hold the crank while I undo the highly torqued nut to get to the oil seal ::)
Your car an auto then? Use a lump hammer on your spanner :-? It's worked for me a few times, although torquing it back up is difficult ....... ::)
Sticking a manual in gear is enough to hold it.
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Still got to make something to counter hold the crank while I undo the highly torqued nut to get to the oil seal ::)
Your car an auto then? Use a lump hammer on your spanner :-? It's worked for me a few times, although torquing it back up is difficult ....... ::)
Sticking a manual in gear is enough to hold it.
No manual, I need to get the nut off to get the oil seal out :y
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No manual, I need to get the nut off to get the oil seal out :y
So, stick it in 1st and put the handbreak on, it should be enoughto hold the car while you undo the crank shaft pully.
I think MarksDTM frowns on my method of using a windy gun to undo them. ::) ::)
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....and a small adjustable for the nut on the tensioner ......
Although adjustable spanners have their uses, I've aquired loads of them over the years, I would say that for use on such an important nut you need to use a proper spanner ie 13mm It's all too easy for ajustables/movers/shifters to slip and you end up with rounded off nuts! Oooer! :y
i only intended for the adjustable to nip the nut up and then be torqued up with the socket, i'v used pliers just to nip mine up before torqueing up
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No manual, I need to get the nut off to get the oil seal out :y
So, stick it in 1st and put the handbreak on, it should be enoughto hold the car while you undo the crank shaft pully.
I think MarksDTM frowns on my method of using a windy gun to undo them. ::) ::)
While I've got the cambelt off?
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i'v used pliers just to nip mine up before torqueing up
I'd have though pliers would be far more difficult to use than it would be to use a proper spanner! :-/
You're not an electrician are you? ;D ;D ;D ;D Our spark's tool kit usually comprises a small mover, terminal driver & a pair of pipe pliers! ;D ;D ;)
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While I've got the cambelt off?
Slacken it off before you start the cam belt, and then when you've finished the belt, you can torque it all up at the end.
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While I've got the cambelt off?
Slacken it off before you start the cam belt, and then when you've finished the belt, you can torque it all up at the end.
If I slacken it before I start will I be able to rotate the engine a revolution before retensioning?
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If I slacken it before I start will I be able to rotate the engine a revolution before retensioning?
After you've taken the tension from the crank shaft pully bolt, you'll be able to turn the engine while you time it up to take the cam belt off. Your transmission will then hold your crank while you remove the crank pully boss ... or what ever it's called.
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The only way that bolt is coming out, is with something holding the crankshaft sprocket.
I didn't listen to mark first time around either... I then Learnt it the hard way from experience, after I broke the wodruff key off the original pulley ::)
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The only way that bolt is coming out, is with something holding the crankshaft sprocket.
I didn't listen to mark first time around either... I then Learnt it the hard way from experience, after I broke the wodruff key off the original pulley ::)
Got as far as getting the timing marks aligned on the cam sprockets and crank pulley and inserting locking tool but how do you know if the crank is in the correct place after the pulley is removed as there is no key on the pulley.
Looks like the pully could be fitted in all four positions thus throwing the notch out on the pulley by 90 degrees everytime.
Once the crank pulley is removed there is no way of checking that the crank timing is correct :-/
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Ok I've sussed out the timing marks on the bottom of the rear timing cover and the notch on one of the bolt holes :y
I've now removed the crankshaft pully and the very tight bolt holding on the boss that the pulley bolts too.
I had to make a tool out of a piece of flat steel bar to bolt to the pully boss and to the alternator fixing point to counterhold it :y
Now what?
How do I remove the boss part to get to the oil seal :-/ :-[
Just going to get the new water pump from Unipart, I really need to get this oil seal replaced before I change the cambelt.
Can anyone help? Please
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once the bolt is out the pulley should just pull off :-?
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once the bolt is out the pulley should just pull off :-?
Pulley is held on by 4 torx bolts, that's off, it's the bit behind the pulley which won't budge :-/
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once the bolt is out the pulley should just pull off :-?
Pulley is held on by 4 torx bolts, that's off, it's the bit behind the pulley which won't budge :-/
thats the part i mean john ! you might have to get a three leg puller on it ! iirc they just slide on not interfernce fit :-/
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once the bolt is out the pulley should just pull off :-?
Pulley is held on by 4 torx bolts, that's off, it's the bit behind the pulley which won't budge :-/
thats the part i mean john ! you might have to get a three leg puller on it ! iirc they just slide on not interfernce fit :-/
Cheers Mark, I haven't got a puller ::)
Is the sprocket on the oil pump connected to the boss?
In other words am I looking at removing the sprocket as well as the circular boss that the pulley bolts to or is the boss a seperate part?
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oil pump tends to be driven off key in crank boss should be a separtate part :y
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oil pump tends to be driven off key in crank boss should be a separtate part :y
Thanks again, is there any way to loosen it without going out to buy a puller?
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oil pump tends to be driven off key in crank boss should be a separtate part :y
Thanks again, is there any way to loosen it without going out to buy a puller?
wouldnt want to tap it with driving cam belt ! but could try a couple of large screwdrivers behind it gently :y
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oil pump tends to be driven off key in crank boss should be a separtate part :y
Thanks again, is there any way to loosen it without going out to buy a puller?
wouldnt want to tap it with driving cam belt ! but could try a couple of large screwdrivers behind it gently :y
Sorry Mark, don't understand that bit mate :-?
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tapping it with a hammer :-/
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tapping it with a hammer :-/
Cheers mate, tried that already but will have another go now :y
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oil pump tends to be driven off key in crank boss should be a separtate part :y
Thanks again, is there any way to loosen it without going out to buy a puller?
How about using a long M8 bolt in one of the 4 crank pulley thread bolt holes in turn, and use a sliding weight on it ie slide hammer? Or, similar idea, run bolt into the holes, grip it with a pair of Vice-Grips/Mole-Grips and hit them outwards. It shouldn't be tight.
On a similar set up I lost & ran over my crank pulley from my Manta cos I hadn't tightened up the crank pully bolt. Not surprisingly it stopped very quickly ..... ;) :y
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Once the crankshaft nut is removed the sprocket should just slide off. You will also need to recover the spacer ring behind the sprocket and knock out the woodruff key before tackling the seal. I punched two holes in the outer surface of the oil seal and screwed self-tappers into this. It then levered out using a pair of long-nosed pliers.
Take care with the new oil seal. I had a bugger ir a job trying to get this back on and ruined the first seal. These are £17 quid from Vauxhall, but I got another one from my local autofactors for a fiver.
I used wet and dry to round over the lip of the journal the seal presses over. You need to clean this again thoroughly and liberally coat the journal and the seal lip with clean oil. The second one went in just fine.
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Once the crankshaft nut is removed the sprocket should just slide off. You will also need to recover the spacer ring behind the sprocket and knock out the woodruff key before tackling the seal. I punched two holes in the outer surface of the oil seal and screwed self-tappers into this. It then levered out using a pair of long-nosed pliers.
Take care with the new oil seal. I had a bugger ir a job trying to get this back on and ruined the first seal. These are £17 quid from Vauxhall, but I got another one from my local autofactors for a fiver.
I used wet and dry to round over the lip of the journal the seal presses over. You need to clean this again thoroughly and liberally coat the journal and the seal lip with clean oil. The second one went in just fine.
Ahh many thanks, I've got the sprocket off now after soaking it in WD40 and a couple of light taps she fell off :y
I was about to ask about the washer as the seal will not go passed it ::)
How do you knock out the woodruff key?
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How do you knock out the woodruff key?
Hammer & screwdriver ..... :y
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How do you knock out the woodruff key?
Hammer & screwdriver ..... :y
Cheers Andy, I've been struggling with various size screw drivers, still no luck.
I'm scared of buggering the thread :-/
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I take it that it does knock out from the inside of the bolt aperture, so trying to get screwdriver inside where thread is for bolt and tapping upwards?
All I can feel is thread :-/
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I take it that it does knock out from the inside of the bolt aperture, so trying to get screwdriver inside where thread is for bolt and tapping upwards?
All I can feel is thread :-/
NO!!!! It's machined in from the outside. A woodruff key is like a half disc .........
clicky (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www2.gpmd.com/image/o/osmg9360.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p%3F%26I%3DLXCX14&usg=__RPaqsJsmD_BfA-JDLfOovbSPzQU=&h=286&w=350&sz=21&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aWYBF-UExpFK5M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwoodruff%2Bkey%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG)
You need to prise it up at one end.
(http://members.ozemail.com.au/~speeder/images/Seal5a.JPG)
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I take it that it does knock out from the inside of the bolt aperture, so trying to get screwdriver inside where thread is for bolt and tapping upwards?
All I can feel is thread :-/
NO!!!! It's machined in from the outside. A woodruff key is like a half disc .........
clicky (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www2.gpmd.com/image/o/osmg9360.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p%3F%26I%3DLXCX14&usg=__RPaqsJsmD_BfA-JDLfOovbSPzQU=&h=286&w=350&sz=21&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=aWYBF-UExpFK5M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwoodruff%2Bkey%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG)
You need to prise it up at one end.
(http://members.ozemail.com.au/~speeder/images/Seal5a.JPG)
Thanks Andy, yes sussed the Woodruff key eventually, came out easy when you no how.
I've changed the oil seal, put it back together and torqued the bolt.
I've replaced the water pump, positioning the new one in exactly the same place as the old one, I can't see any cut out on the rear timing cover to line the lug up with :-/
I think the old pump may be the original :o
It's covered in a layer of crud, looks like a build up of limescale and there is no groove with o ring seal, looks like someone used some sort of black sealant. Also the paddles are not made of plastic, they are metal ,brass colour.
Next problem is that I can't get the new cambelt on all the sprockets :-[ it's as though it is to short, which it isn't as I've measured it against the old one.
Does the water pump position make a difference to the belt length?
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yep turn pump to suit it needs to be in nearly the same place as your old one :y
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yep turn pump to suit it needs to be in nearly the same place as your old one :y
That's just it Mark, I have positioned it as the old one, with the lug at 12 o'clock. As said before, I can't see anything to line up the water pump lug with :-?
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yep turn pump to suit it needs to be in nearly the same place as your old one :y
That's just it Mark, I have positioned it as the old one, with the lug at 12 o'clock. As said before, I can't see anything to line up the water pump lug with :-?
sure theres a mark somewere bud just carnt remember were :-[
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yep turn pump to suit it needs to be in nearly the same place as your old one :y
That's just it Mark, I have positioned it as the old one, with the lug at 12 o'clock. As said before, I can't see anything to line up the water pump lug with :-?
sure theres a mark somewere bud just carnt remember were :-[[/quote]
The lug on the side of the pump is aligned with a recess in the cylinder block. :y
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I usually take off an idler, route the belt, and then fit the idler last. :y
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When you are trying to fit belt are you keeping all the slack on the tensioner side :question
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yep turn pump to suit it needs to be in nearly the same place as your old one :y
That's just it Mark, I have positioned it as the old one, with the lug at 12 o'clock. As said before, I can't see anything to line up the water pump lug with :-?
sure theres a mark somewere bud just carnt remember were :-[[/quote]
The lug on the side of the pump is aligned with a recess in the cylinder block. :y
Don't suppose the recess is at 12 oclock ::)
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I usually take off an idler, route the belt, and then fit the idler last. :y
Tried that James, after seeing you do it on the DVD, no chance :-[
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I usually take off an idler, route the belt, and then fit the idler last. :y
Tried that James, after seeing you do it on the DVD, no chance :-[
Odd - are you doing it differently to how I was?
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When you are trying to fit belt are you keeping all the slack on the tensioner side :question
I'm following the DVD, route the belt over the crank sprocket routing the belt on the inside of the right hand idler, around the tensioner, water pump, then over the cam sprokets and try to fit the left hand idler.
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I usually take off an idler, route the belt, and then fit the idler last. :y
Tried that James, after seeing you do it on the DVD, no chance :-[
Timing belt refit order; over crankshaft and camshaft sprockets, around the idler pulleys, then over water pump, then tensioner pulley. :y
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I usually take off an idler, route the belt, and then fit the idler last. :y
Tried that James, after seeing you do it on the DVD, no chance :-[
Odd - are you doing it differently to how I was?
Don't think so James, been following the DVD step by step :-/
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I usually take off an idler, route the belt, and then fit the idler last. :y
Tried that James, after seeing you do it on the DVD, no chance :-[
Odd - are you doing it differently to how I was?
Don't think so James, been following the DVD step by step :-/
Is the tensioner loose, with the locating bit seated properly in the block recess, and fully backed off?
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I usually take off an idler, route the belt, and then fit the idler last. :y
Tried that James, after seeing you do it on the DVD, no chance :-[
Timing belt refit order; over crankshaft and camshaft sprockets, around the idler pulleys, then over water pump, then tensioner pulley. :y
Thanks, I'll try this tomorrow, to cold and dark now ::)
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A fresh head is a wise move :y
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I usually take off an idler, route the belt, and then fit the idler last. :y
Tried that James, after seeing you do it on the DVD, no chance :-[
Odd - are you doing it differently to how I was?
Don't think so James, been following the DVD step by step :-/
Is the tensioner loose, with the locating bit seated properly in the block recess, and fully backed off?
Fitting bolt is loose, but haven't checked to see if the tension is backed off :-[
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I usually take off an idler, route the belt, and then fit the idler last. :y
Tried that James, after seeing you do it on the DVD, no chance :-[
Timing belt refit order; over crankshaft and camshaft sprockets, around the idler pulleys, then over water pump, then tensioner pulley. :y
Thanks, I'll try this tomorrow, to cold and dark now ::)
Come the morning it`ll go on first time :y :)
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I usually take off an idler, route the belt, and then fit the idler last. :y
Tried that James, after seeing you do it on the DVD, no chance :-[
Timing belt refit order; over crankshaft and camshaft sprockets, around the idler pulleys, then over water pump, then tensioner pulley. :y
Thanks, I'll try this tomorrow, to cold and dark now ::)
Come the morning it`ll go on first time :y :)
Hope so Rob :y
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Actually I'm not even sure the oil leak was down to the seal, have a look at the pic below, doesn't look right to me at 4 and 9 oclock.......
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/alexandjen/EbayItems002.jpg)
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I thought that my front end oil leak was down to the crankshaft seal, but it turned out ok. (Changed it anyway). However BOTH camshaft seals were very badly decayed and oil was pouring down from the top. You might do well to check these - don't want oil seeping all over you nice new cambelt!
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/rjlangton/CamSeal.jpg)
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right, I've got it all back together, now much neat antifreeze do I put in the header tank, bearing in mind that the engine must be almost empty as I've changed the water pump :-/
I drained the rad as well
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Put about 2.5 litres of anti-freeze in, top up with 2.5 litres of water.
Mix the remaining 2.5 litres of anti-freeze with 2.5 litres of water.
Top up till full.
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I usually bung 4l in my own car neat and then top up with water for it to self mix... but it's all down to personal preference. Just don't go stronger than a 50 50 mix :y
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I usually bung 4l in my own car neat and then top up with water for it to self mix... but it's all down to personal preference. Just don't go stronger than a 50 50 mix :y
That's almost exactly what I did.............
Now the belt is changed do I need to check the tension sometime soon?
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I usually bung 4l in my own car neat and then top up with water for it to self mix... but it's all down to personal preference. Just don't go stronger than a 50 50 mix :y
That's almost exactly what I did.............
Now the belt is changed do I need to check the tension sometime soon?
Yep, in 40,000 miles ;)
So, does it run?
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I usually bung 4l in my own car neat and then top up with water for it to self mix... but it's all down to personal preference. Just don't go stronger than a 50 50 mix :y
That's almost exactly what I did.............
Now the belt is changed do I need to check the tension sometime soon?
Yep, in 40,000 miles ;)
So, does it run?
Yes seems to be running fine thanks James.
The only reason I asked was because when I initially tensioned the belt and rotated the engine back to TDC the pointer on the tensioner had moved across to the left a bit :-/
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I usually bung 4l in my own car neat and then top up with water for it to self mix... but it's all down to personal preference. Just don't go stronger than a 50 50 mix :y
That's almost exactly what I did.............
Now the belt is changed do I need to check the tension sometime soon?
Yep, in 40,000 miles ;)
So, does it run?
Yes seems to be running fine thanks James.
The only reason I asked was because when I initially tensioned the belt and rotated the engine back to TDC the pointer on the tensioner had moved across to the left a bit :-/
Ack... after fitting the belt, did you then spin the engine by hand, back to TDC - then fully back off the tensioner, and reset the tension, before spinning and checking again? :-/
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Crap........I did spin the engine by hand back to TDC but I didn't back the tensioner right off, I reset it back to the new belt notch, spun the engine by hand again back to TDC and reset the tensioner again.
I didn't back the tensioner right off after either rotation back to TDC :-/
Do you think I ought to do this before drving it again :-/
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Crap........I did spin the engine by hand back to TDC but I didn't back the tensioner right off, I reset it back to the new belt notch, spun the engine by hand again back to TDC and reset the tensioner again.
I didn't back the tensioner right off after either rotation back to TDC :-/
Do you think I ought to do this before drving it again :-/
If you reset the tensioner after spinning, you should in theory be OK - but I'd like to get a second opinion.
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Crap........I did spin the engine by hand back to TDC but I didn't back the tensioner right off, I reset it back to the new belt notch, spun the engine by hand again back to TDC and reset the tensioner again.
I didn't back the tensioner right off after either rotation back to TDC :-/
Do you think I ought to do this before drving it again :-/
If you reset the tensioner after spinning, you should in theory be OK - but I'd like to get a second opinion.
Thanks James, perhaps Mr DTM would give us his expert opinion
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Crap........I did spin the engine by hand back to TDC but I didn't back the tensioner right off, I reset it back to the new belt notch, spun the engine by hand again back to TDC and reset the tensioner again.
I didn't back the tensioner right off after either rotation back to TDC :-/
Do you think I ought to do this before drving it again :-/
If you reset the tensioner after spinning, you should in theory be OK - but I'd like to get a second opinion.
Does anyone else think I should retension the cambelt again before driving again?
When I say retension I mean back the tensioner right off and then retension :-/
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if its still in bits then why not for piece of mind bud !! if your happy with it then dont bother but its preying on your mind then do it to put your mind at rest john ! :y
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if its still in bits then why not for piece of mind bud !! if your happy with it then dont bother but its preying on your mind then do it to put your mind at rest john ! :y
Thanks Mark, no it's all back together and I took it for a test drive last night.
It seems ok but if it needs to be done then I'll take it to bits again this weekend :(
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if its still in bits then why not for piece of mind bud !! if your happy with it then dont bother but its preying on your mind then do it to put your mind at rest john ! :y
Thanks Mark, no it's all back together and I took it for a test drive last night.
It seems ok but if it needs to be done then I'll take it to bits again this weekend :(
are you happy with it ?? :-/
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if its still in bits then why not for piece of mind bud !! if your happy with it then dont bother but its preying on your mind then do it to put your mind at rest john ! :y
Thanks Mark, no it's all back together and I took it for a test drive last night.
It seems ok but if it needs to be done then I'll take it to bits again this weekend :(
are you happy with it ?? :-/
Yes as it drives and sounds ok but do I need to back the tensioner right off and retension :-/
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if its still in bits then why not for piece of mind bud !! if your happy with it then dont bother but its preying on your mind then do it to put your mind at rest john ! :y
Thanks Mark, no it's all back together and I took it for a test drive last night.
It seems ok but if it needs to be done then I'll take it to bits again this weekend :(
are you happy with it ?? :-/
Yes as it drives and sounds ok but do I need to back the tensioner right off and retension :-/
i personally wouldnt bother till next service then check and retension but its up to you :-X