Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: bob.dent on 08 December 2008, 15:21:47

Title: Wishbone bushes
Post by: bob.dent on 08 December 2008, 15:21:47
Having had problems with the steering tramlining and bump steering, I paid another visit to WIM on Friday and after a few checks Tony said that the wishbone bushes were worn and needed replacing as the excessive play in them was the cause of the problem.
Am I correct in assuming that this means the complete wishbones will have to be replaced? If so, should I get my garage to use genuine VX wishbones or are pattern one's just as good?
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: TheBoy on 08 December 2008, 15:25:36
If MDTM has fixed his press, I believe he would recommend some Merle bushes pressed in to old wishbones.

We put genuine Vx bushes in mine back in the summer, before the press got destroyed at Newent :o
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 December 2008, 15:26:23
Bob....get new bushes pressed into your existing wishbones.....this should NOT affect the geometry settings.

Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 December 2008, 15:27:03
Quote
If MDTM has fixed his press, I believe he would recommend some Merle bushes pressed in to old wishbones.

We put genuine Vx bushes in mine back in the summer, before the press got destroyed at Newent :o

Thats a little job for Xmas week.....need some welding therapy  :y
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: bob.dent on 08 December 2008, 15:29:55
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Bob....get new bushes pressed into your existing wishbones.....this should NOT affect the geometry settings.


Cheers Mark, now you mention it I do seem to remember Tony saying something about using a press to put new bushes in. Is this something my garage can do or is it it a specialist job? Also, should I tell them to ger Merle bushes as Jaime suggested?
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: TheBoy on 08 December 2008, 15:30:01
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Bob....get new bushes pressed into your existing wishbones.....this should NOT affect the geometry settings.

Thinking about it, WIM may have a press Bob, IIRC.
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: TheBoy on 08 December 2008, 15:30:22
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Quote
Bob....get new bushes pressed into your existing wishbones.....this should NOT affect the geometry settings.

Thinking about it, WIM may have a press Bob, IIRC.
But not the drifts...
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: bob.dent on 08 December 2008, 15:32:24
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Bob....get new bushes pressed into your existing wishbones.....this should NOT affect the geometry settings.

Thinking about it, WIM may have a press Bob, IIRC.

Tony said that they have done them in the past but don't any longer.
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: ians on 08 December 2008, 17:56:52
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If MDTM has fixed his press, I believe he would recommend some Merle bushes pressed in to old wishbones.

We put genuine Vx bushes in mine back in the summer, before the press got destroyed at Newent :o

Thats a little job for Xmas week.....need some welding therapy  :y

Did something get damaged at Newent - I can't remember that.... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

Bob - I went the Merle route and they are fine.  Iggy21uk sourced them (importer in Leeds if I recall) - if you do a search I'm sure you will find the thread.
When I was at WIM Tony said that the last one they did (with Sealey 10T press) was a real dog though - maybe why they don't do it any longer.   I suspect yours will be fine - it was my old ones that did for Mark's press.

Cheers
Ian

Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: feeutfo on 08 December 2008, 18:05:06
wim dont have the drifts. Very difficult without. Mr dtm has them, or get some turned on a lathe when you have the bushes to make them to, maybe?
The trouble is there is very little outside edge on the bush to press on, if it slips, one breaked bush, and then nothing to fit to the car, personally i prefered  to press an old set first(courtesy of Mr dtm) Then you can be sure to have a straight swap when fitting. I just felt it was a bit more belt and braces that way.

Just as a note, i have the merle bushes fitted, and wonder if there is a slightly firmer bush available. The stearing is much improved but still could be a little more accurate(torqued correctly defo) and there is no more harshness delivered from the road, so i feel there is room to go a little firmer with the bushes to stop a tad more pulling before any vibes are transmitted. I have senator donut bushes in the rear and love them. Something along those lines for stiffness for the front would be great. Anyone got any thoughts?

Bob, i would recommend rear senator bushes to you
,they stopped more tramlining than any front bushes ive done before. Sorry, getting off topic now.
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: TheBoy on 08 December 2008, 18:47:40
Quote
Quote
Quote
If MDTM has fixed his press, I believe he would recommend some Merle bushes pressed in to old wishbones.

We put genuine Vx bushes in mine back in the summer, before the press got destroyed at Newent :o

Thats a little job for Xmas week.....need some welding therapy  :y

Did something get damaged at Newent - I can't remember that.... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

Bob - I went the Merle route and they are fine.  Iggy21uk sourced them (importer in Leeds if I recall) - if you do a search I'm sure you will find the thread.
When I was at WIM Tony said that the last one they did (with Sealey 10T press) was a real dog though - maybe why they don't do it any longer.   I suspect yours will be fine - it was my old ones that did for Mark's press.

Cheers
Ian

Don't worry ians - I blame it on Mr DTM's substandard welding...


[size=9]TB waits for Mr DTM to blame Matchless....[/size]
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: wheels-inmotion on 08 December 2008, 20:48:09
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Bob....get new bushes pressed into your existing wishbones.....this should NOT affect the geometry settings.

Thinking about it, WIM may have a press Bob, IIRC.

Tony said that they have done them in the past but don't any longer.

I advise owners we don't fit the uprated bushings because i felt the time it took is not cost affective for the owner... Maybe it's our press or whatever but i think the labour fee is not practical..... I'm being honest.

Once fitted the Geometry will definitely be wrong.
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: bob.dent on 09 December 2008, 10:32:17
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Quote
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Bob....get new bushes pressed into your existing wishbones.....this should NOT affect the geometry settings.

Thinking about it, WIM may have a press Bob, IIRC.

Tony said that they have done them in the past but don't any longer.

I advise owners we don't fit the uprated bushings because i felt the time it took is not cost affective for the owner... Maybe it's our press or whatever but i think the labour fee is not practical..... I'm being honest.

Once fitted the Geometry will definitely be wrong.

I have planned to book in for another set-up when bushes are done Tony. :y
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: gwa on 09 December 2008, 13:10:13
Is there a member around the Peterborough area that has a press and can do this for me? Don't want to go to the Vx or Costalot Ltd

 ;) ;)
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: ians on 09 December 2008, 20:08:06
Most garages will have a press.  My difficult one cost a tenner.    
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: Matchless on 09 December 2008, 22:37:56
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Quote
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Quote
If MDTM has fixed his press, I believe he would recommend some Merle bushes pressed in to old wishbones.

We put genuine Vx bushes in mine back in the summer, before the press got destroyed at Newent :o

Thats a little job for Xmas week.....need some welding therapy  :y

Did something get damaged at Newent - I can't remember that.... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

Bob - I went the Merle route and they are fine.  Iggy21uk sourced them (importer in Leeds if I recall) - if you do a search I'm sure you will find the thread.
When I was at WIM Tony said that the last one they did (with Sealey 10T press) was a real dog though - maybe why they don't do it any longer.   I suspect yours will be fine - it was my old ones that did for Mark's press.

Cheers
Ian

Don't worry ians - I blame it on Mr DTM's substandard welding...


[size=14]TB waits for Mr DTM to blame Matchless....[/size]

Matchless blames the cheap wire feed mechanism on his Migmate and wonders if he will ever see his bottle jack again
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: gwa on 10 December 2008, 07:49:06
Quote
Most garages will have a press.  My difficult one cost a tenner.    

So as a scenario: If I get 2 wishbones of an OOF scraper or fleabay, buy the new bushes and take it all to local garage they'll re-bush the wishbones for a small fee, is that correct?
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: feeutfo on 10 December 2008, 09:12:38
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Quote
Most garages will have a press.  My difficult one cost a tenner.    

So as a scenario: If I get 2 wishbones of an OOF scraper or fleabay, buy the new bushes and take it all to local garage they'll re-bush the wishbones for a small fee, is that correct?

Well, in theory yes. Trouble is you need drifts that fit the bushes. I had imagined using a larger socket or some similar item. But when the bushes arrived it was clear that would not work for 2 reasons.
1. the outside edge of the bush is 1mill or so wide iirc so the drift has to be a fraction smaller than than the hole in the wishbone but big enough to not slip into the centre of the bush and rip the rubber.
2 the centre "spacer"set into the rubber sits proud of the outside edge obviously so the drift needs needs to have a suitable hole to allow for this or you risk forceing the centre spacer out of the rubber and again, ripping the rubber.
 Or something like that, ive not used correct drifts so cant tell you how they fit. But i imagine something could be turned on a lathe to give the right fit. Hth.

Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: PxMetro on 10 December 2008, 13:19:23
Quote
Quote
Quote
Most garages will have a press.  My difficult one cost a tenner.    

So as a scenario: If I get 2 wishbones of an OOF scraper or fleabay, buy the new bushes and take it all to local garage they'll re-bush the wishbones for a small fee, is that correct?

Well, in theory yes. Trouble is you need drifts that fit the bushes. I had imagined using a larger socket or some similar item. But when the bushes arrived it was clear that would not work for 2 reasons.
1. the outside edge of the bush is 1mill or so wide iirc so the drift has to be a fraction smaller than than the hole in the wishbone but big enough to not slip into the centre of the bush and rip the rubber.
2 the centre "spacer"set into the rubber sits proud of the outside edge obviously so the drift needs needs to have a suitable hole to allow for this or you risk forceing the centre spacer out of the rubber and again, ripping the rubber.
 Or something like that, ive not used correct drifts so cant tell you how they fit. But i imagine something could be turned on a lathe to give the right fit. Hth.

For what it's worth, you mite just as well buy some new, ready assembly wishbones and fit them.
It's a lot of extra hastle to remove the old items, sort out getting the new bushes fitted, before taking them back and fitting to the car.
I fitted some pattern parts about a year ago, and they work perfectly fine. Just be carefull with the linkage for the HID light sensor thingy, as the ball joint can be dry and rusty.

You will have to get the steering geometry checked and adjusted afterwards though, if you are to avoid some interesting handling characteristics.
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: feeutfo on 10 December 2008, 19:28:56
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Most garages will have a press.  My difficult one cost a tenner.    

So as a scenario: If I get 2 wishbones of an OOF scraper or fleabay, buy the new bushes and take it all to local garage they'll re-bush the wishbones for a small fee, is that correct?

Well, in theory yes. Trouble is you need drifts that fit the bushes. I had imagined using a larger socket or some similar item. But when the bushes arrived it was clear that would not work for 2 reasons.
1. the outside edge of the bush is 1mill or so wide iirc so the drift has to be a fraction smaller than than the hole in the wishbone but big enough to not slip into the centre of the bush and rip the rubber.
2 the centre "spacer"set into the rubber sits proud of the outside edge obviously so the drift needs needs to have a suitable hole to allow for this or you risk forceing the centre spacer out of the rubber and again, ripping the rubber.
 Or something like that, ive not used correct drifts so cant tell you how they fit. But i imagine something could be turned on a lathe to give the right fit. Hth.

For what it's worth, you mite just as well buy some new, ready assembly wishbones and fit them.
It's a lot of extra hastle to remove the old items, sort out getting the new bushes fitted, before taking them back and fitting to the car.
I fitted some pattern parts about a year ago, and they work perfectly fine. Just be carefull with the linkage for the HID light sensor thingy, as the ball joint can be dry and rusty.

You will have to get the steering geometry checked and adjusted afterwards though, if you are to avoid some interesting handling characteristics.

The idea is to fit better bushes than the standard vx items. If all bushes where equal and all wishbones where only a phew quid more than a set of bushes then obviously you would not bother pressing.

 Bear in mind the cheapest possible wishbones with oe bushes  are 120 a pair. By pressing you own you can have better bushes for 39. The issue wim had is they cant do it quick enough to make it cheaper than buying a new set. Ie 2 hours labour for them is
140 or something like...as Tony(wim) said, not cost effective for the customer.
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: gwa on 10 December 2008, 21:34:11
Thanks guys, thats really useful info.  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: feeutfo on 11 December 2008, 10:09:55
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Thanks guys, thats really useful info.  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Merle bushes fitted to mine, as was recommended by a thread on here, iggy 21 on here knows the contact details. Wish i could find that thread, i want ask Merle if there are slightly harder bushes than the ones i have.
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: iggy21uk on 11 December 2008, 11:44:04
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Thanks guys, thats really useful info.  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Merle bushes fitted to mine, as was recommended by a thread on here, iggy 21 on here knows the contact details. Wish i could find that thread, i want ask Merle if there are slightly harder bushes than the ones i have.


Have a look on the Meyle on the website may find HD version ?

http://www.wulfgaertner.com/html/index.php

The bushes I got from the supplier in Leeds was not a stock item
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: gwa on 12 December 2008, 11:17:15
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Most garages will have a press.  My difficult one cost a tenner.    

So as a scenario: If I get 2 wishbones of an OOF scraper or fleabay, buy the new bushes and take it all to local garage they'll re-bush the wishbones for a small fee, is that correct?

Well, in theory yes. Trouble is you need drifts that fit the bushes. I had imagined using a larger socket or some similar item. But when the bushes arrived it was clear that would not work for 2 reasons.
1. the outside edge of the bush is 1mill or so wide iirc so the drift has to be a fraction smaller than than the hole in the wishbone but big enough to not slip into the centre of the bush and rip the rubber.
2 the centre "spacer"set into the rubber sits proud of the outside edge obviously so the drift needs needs to have a suitable hole to allow for this or you risk forceing the centre spacer out of the rubber and again, ripping the rubber.
 Or something like that, ive not used correct drifts so cant tell you how they fit. But i imagine something could be turned on a lathe to give the right fit. Hth.

For what it's worth, you mite just as well buy some new, ready assembly wishbones and fit them.
It's a lot of extra hastle to remove the old items, sort out getting the new bushes fitted, before taking them back and fitting to the car.
I fitted some pattern parts about a year ago, and they work perfectly fine. Just be carefull with the linkage for the HID light sensor thingy, as the ball joint can be dry and rusty.

You will have to get the steering geometry checked and adjusted afterwards though, if you are to avoid some interesting handling characteristics.

The idea is to fit better bushes than the standard vx items. If all bushes where equal and all wishbones where only a phew quid more than a set of bushes then obviously you would not bother pressing.

 Bear in mind the cheapest possible wishbones with oe bushes  are 120 a pair. By pressing you own you can have better bushes for 39. The issue wim had is they cant do it quick enough to make it cheaper than buying a new set. Ie 2 hours labour for them is
140 or something like...as Tony(wim) said, not cost effective for the customer.

Where do these come from? :y
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 December 2008, 11:42:31
http://www.autovaux.co.uk/LoadPortal.aspx?tabid=3

And you want the Lemforder ones
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: gwa on 12 December 2008, 16:00:02
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http://www.autovaux.co.uk/LoadPortal.aspx?tabid=3

And you want the Lemforder ones

Fantastic  :y Rang up and they are on there way, £60.20 inc VAT and delivery each. Although I asked for Sat AM @ £18. He asked who recommended and I told him you did, so make yourself known next time. Thanks again Mark  :y :y :-*
Title: Re: Wishbone bushes
Post by: gwa on 13 December 2008, 20:23:29
Bl00dy fantastic. Marks DTM recommendation of
******************
http://www.autovaux.co.uk/LoadPortal.aspx?tabid=3
And you want the Lemforder ones
******************
The wishbones duly arrived around 08:45, I went over to Serek's (an OOF Member) place around 15:45. After a coffee and a chat we started around 15:30 and by 17:30 all done and dusted, including putting the tools away and cleaning up.

Many many thanks to you all  :y :y :y :y :y :y :y  :-*