Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: markjodrell on 20 January 2009, 18:54:25
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Hi
Omega 52 plate , 2.2 petro Tyre size 225/55/16 all round
Is this normal? I have noticed that there is very little clearance behind the front wheels between the tyre and the shock absorber, in fact its bearly more than the thickness of a credit car. Is this normal or are the tyres too wide or something ??
Any comments appreciated.
Mark :-?
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Hi
Omega 52 plate , 2.2 petro Tyre size 225/55/16 all round
Is this normal? I have noticed that there is very little clearance behind the front wheels between the tyre and the shock absorber, in fact its bearly more than the thickness of a credit car. Is this normal or are the tyres too wide or something ??
Any comments appreciated.
Mark :-?
You have got Omega rims on?
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Yes , the standard original 16" wheels
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Yes , the standard original 16" wheels
Have you noticed abnormal wear on the treads :question
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I had this on the tractor I broke for spares, the standard 205/65/15 tyres were rubbing the bottom of the strut cup, when I removed the struts I noticed the cups had weakened due to age and had sagged with the pressure of the spring.
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I have just replaced the front tyres last week, thats why i noticed the clearance. Are 225/55/16 the std fitment for the front tyres. I hope somebody could put their hand at the back of the wheel and let me know if they had very little clearance with the same size tyres. Sorry , I know its cold out there ;) ;) :) :) :y
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I guess there could be several causes, tire/wheel size, buggerd strut, set up, worn bushes. In my case it was set up, camber was miles out due to a new shock badly fitted/not set properly. Only noticed when i could here ting ting ting over 30mph.
It was the wire torn out of the inside edge of the tire banging on the spring cup on the strut due to excessive camber (wheel leaning in too much at the top) outside edge looked brand new. Not good.
However, in your case, if both sides are exactly equal, i wonder if someone has fitted over size wheels or tires, cant help with standard sizes though, sorry.
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PLEASE could some kind soul put their finger behind the front wheel and see how much clearance there is between the shock absorber and the tyre with 225/55/16 tyres fitted...... I would really appreciated it for peace of mind....thanks in anticipation
Mark
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dont have this size..but can say definitely 225 * 55 is bigger than standard..I checked them in a shop side by side by 205, 215..it was 1.5 , 2cm higher than the 205*55
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Take it to a proper alignment centre and get the front camber set to 1deg10mins. This should sort your clearance problems.
Tyre size is correct, 205 on 15" or 225 on 16" rins.
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Will have a look in the morning Mark, but fairly certain i dont have your sizes.
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Tire size is not correct ..
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/tiresize1.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/zorbe.jpg)
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225 55 16 is the standrad 16 inch tyre size.
The normal gap is about 10mm....I suspect there is excessive front negative camber.
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Nope..Must be 225/50-16..
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/son-1.jpg)
I must note that 225/55-16 is cheaper here than 225/50-16..
as its not standard..and nobody wants it..
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Mark,to put your mind at ease,std tyres fitted to my 2.6CDX/2002/engine Y26SE are 225x55x16r and no problem
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Nope..Must be 225/50-16..
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/son-1.jpg)
I must note that 225/55-16 is cheaper here than 225/50-16..
as its not standard..and nobody wants it..
Cem they are 55's, the circumference of the 16 inch wheels is different to that of the 15inch and 17inch ones and hencewhy the 16 inch has diferent code indexes on the MID, Instruments etc which is set by Tech2. :y
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Nope..Must be 225/50-16..
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/son-1.jpg)
I must note that 225/55-16 is cheaper here than 225/50-16..
as its not standard..and nobody wants it..
Cem they are 55's, the circumference of the 16 inch wheels is different to that of the 15inch and 17inch ones and hencewhy the 16 inch has diferent code indexes on the MID, Instruments etc which is set by Tech2. :y
yep.. you can arrange by tech 2..but acceleration will drop with higher diameters as pi is constant ;D :y
ie. think like a higher ratio in every gear..
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Nope..Must be 225/50-16..
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/son-1.jpg)
I must note that 225/55-16 is cheaper here than 225/50-16..
as its not standard..and nobody wants it..
Cem they are 55's, the circumference of the 16 inch wheels is different to that of the 15inch and 17inch ones and hencewhy the 16 inch has diferent code indexes on the MID, Instruments etc which is set by Tech2. :y
yep.. you can arrange by tech 2..but acceleration will drop with higher diameters as pi is constant ;D :y
ie. think like a higher ratio in every gear..
Yes BUT 225-55-16 is the FACTORY fit tyre size.....
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Nope..Must be 225/50-16..
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/son-1.jpg)
I must note that 225/55-16 is cheaper here than 225/50-16..
as its not standard..and nobody wants it..
Cem they are 55's, the circumference of the 16 inch wheels is different to that of the 15inch and 17inch ones and hencewhy the 16 inch has diferent code indexes on the MID, Instruments etc which is set by Tech2. :y
yep.. you can arrange by tech 2..but acceleration will drop with higher diameters as pi is constant ;D :y
ie. think like a higher ratio in every gear..
Yes BUT 225-55-16 is the FACTORY fit tyre size.....
Then the factory making mistake ;D
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Then the factory making mistake ;D
Lol, why do I get this image ......
Hans (Omega Designer) - why have you been fitting 225-55-16 tyres to the Omega for the full9 years of production?
Fritz (Omega line manager) - zis is vot it said in the spec.
Funny creatures germans, they never question things.....if the spec said fit wheel and then cut a finger off they would....
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Then the factory making mistake ;D
Lol, why do I get this image ......
Hans (Omega Designer) - why have you been fitting 225-55-16 tyres to the Omega for the full9 years of production?
Fritz (Omega line manager) - zis is vot it said in the spec.
Funny creatures germans, they never question things.....if the spec said fit wheel and then cut a finger off they would....
;D :y
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Thanks for the replies.
Ned, how much clearance have you got at the back of the tyre.I took my car to a garage yesterday and they have adjusted the camber to the tollerences given by Vauxhall. Its just that the gap between the back of the tyre and the shock absorber is tiny, 2 credit cards would be tight.
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you would be surprised at the differences between different manufactures, tyre sizes!!!! wouldnt mind betting if you put a rear wheel on the front at the moment the clearance would be better?
similarly if you put a brand new tyre of a different manufacturer on the clearance would again be different again, as long as its clear then only massive tyre deformation will allow it to touch the spring cup,and then only for a split second which may polish the bottom of the cup but do no harm to it, but it may mae the tyre get a bit warm whilst doing it, wouldnt worry about it tobe honest
JM2PW :yl
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Thanks for the replies.
Ned, how much clearance have you got at the back of the tyre.I took my car to a garage yesterday and they have adjusted the camber to the tollerences given by Vauxhall. Its just that the gap between the back of the tyre and the shock absorber is tiny, 2 credit cards would be tight.
Pointless......the Vx tolerance is MASSIVE.
It needs to be -1deg 10mins......
As said, its about 10mm
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I have checked with the garage and he assures me that the camber is correct according to Vx spec. Think I will try the rear or the original Firestone spare in the boot and see if the two budget tryes I have fitted are a bit wider.I suppose as long as the tryes dont rub the side of the shocker it should be okay. But its very close, 2 mm probably :-/ :-/
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.... I will try the rear or the original Firestone spare in the boot and .....
Check its size. My original spare is smaller than the alloys on the car (195 ..... 15" ? steel)
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I have checked with the garage and he assures me that the camber is correct according to Vx spec. Think I will try the rear or the original Firestone spare in the boot and see if the two budget tryes I have fitted are a bit wider.I suppose as long as the tryes dont rub the side of the shocker it should be okay. But its very close, 2 mm probably :-/ :-/
Again, an utter waste of time.....the Vx spec is huge at -1 deg 40' +/- 45' with a max difference of 1deg....so they could be set to close on -2deg 25' and still be within Vx spec which would be close on 6mm closer to the strutt!!
What was the Value he set them to....he should be able to tell you that.
From the factory they are set to -1deg 40' pretty much on the nose.
As the suspension ages the camber will increase quite a bit, they really need setting with less camber and hence the -1deg 10' due to this aged setup :y
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Again , thanks for the advice.
as the tolerences are so wide I may as well leave as, especially having already paid out £70 to have the camber adjusted. I suppose as long as the side of the shocker is just missing the tyre it should be okay.
Would you happen to know of an "expert" around Stoke-on-Tren who cI could trust to get it right if I decided to pursue it.
Thankyou
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Again , thanks for the advice.
as the tolerences are so wide I may as well leave as, especially having already paid out £70 to have the camber adjusted. I suppose as long as the side of the shocker is just missing the tyre it should be okay.
Would you happen to know of an "expert" around Stoke-on-Tren who cI could trust to get it right if I decided to pursue it.
Thankyou
Having paid 70 quid then I would expect you to have a before and after geometry report, do you have this as it should include the camber values.
Beware that if you have to much camber then you will eat the inside edges of the tyres.
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right, better late than never, just been able to check the gap shock to tire, and can get my middle finger to the first knuckle between tire and shock. Which is about 12 mill.
Now then, its your car and your tires, so up to you. But, as my previous post, i speak from personal, very expensive and very dangerous experience. If this situation is left, i have absolutely no doubt your tires will be down to, if not through, the wire in 3000 miles.
Seriously...
Get it sorted, having paid for a set up, i would think i reputable company would be happy to reset it, given the safety issues.
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I have spoken to the "boss" at the garage and he got a bit shirty saying that it was set according the Vx guide, end off. He says if its not right now there must be something bent which is bull as its unlikely that both side would be "bent" the gap is about 2 mm. I was even temped to jack the car up and simple slacken the bolts and move the wheel away from the shock absorber to a gap of 10mm , for both sides, that should give the correct clearance. First though I will put the original spare wheel (same size) and just see if the new budjet front tyes are slightly "fatter" than the original.
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[Having paid 70 quid then I would expect you to have a before and after geometry report, do you have this as it should include the camber values.
Beware that if you have to much camber then you will eat the inside edges of the tyres.[/quote]
No report given , just said tracking and camber adjusted to within manufacturers specifications
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Very poor service, name and shame please so we can avoid them in future.
As for camber setting, adjusting the camber will throw the track out.
It can be set pretty accurately using a spirit level and ruler with some flat ground
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[Having paid 70 quid then I would expect you to have a before and after geometry report, do you have this as it should include the camber values.
Beware that if you have to much camber then you will eat the inside edges of the tyres.
No report given , just said tracking and camber adjusted to within manufacturers specifications [/quote]
Sorry mate, but thats appaling. No evidence they did anything at all/ did it correctly. Considering all that, if you paid by card, i would be on to the bank to get my money back.
Putting that aside for a minute, please get it reset at a reputable company, wheels in motion for instance or pm albatross for the password to the oof map for the nearest alignment place to you as recommended by members on here. In the mean time please keep a very close eye on the inside edge of your tires, suggest parking with wheels on full lock so you can see the inside.
As said, whats the name and location of this shower of crap/company. They did give you a receipt i take it?
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Definately use WIM - worth the trip
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Hi wim is too farfor me, I live in Stoke-on-Trent, does anyboy know of a centre near Stoke
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I must admit this camber thing is really becoming a pain. I have had the car for just over a week , in that time I have had two tyres put on and the tracking adjusted. I then had the camber set at another garage, by eye which made it too "straight. I then had too have the tracking done again at another garage(another bill). i then went to what I thought was a reputable place who adjusted the camber and the tracking yet again( he talked a good job)( for another £70). End result is one tyre is barely 2 mm from touching the side of the shock absorber and the other side is barely more .
Incidently I have put a spirit level on the wheel from top to bottom, one side is definatley leaning in more than the other, excuse my ignorance but I take it that both sides should be identical.
As I have said if anybody knows of a localish company who can once and for all put my mind at rest on this one, near Stoke-on-Trent , I would really appreciate it,Thankyou.
Having just got a new car I should be spending my time driving or cleaning it , not going from garage to garage. I did also contact the main dealers , Greenhous, couldnt believe that the main dealer ship in the area for Vauxhall slaes and repairs said they could not check the camber. I also asked Kwik Fit, they couldnt either, would like to know then how they can change suspension parts, shockers etc but they cannot check the camber after, very strange. All I can think is that there must be a hell of a lot of cars on the road with the cambers out.
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you could try chemix autocentres in birmingham.
i think at one point that WIM may have said they've got the right equipment to do the job.
i went there for 4 new tyres and enquired about checking camber. their response was: don't waste your money mate. the wear on the old set is pretty even, so it can't be far out. I thought that was fair enough really as it was try and it did them out of some money!
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Mark DTM
I have noticed in a previous post of yours regarding camber you said the following:-
1' 20'' is the value I target for front camber......and both as close to each other as possible.....on most Omegas this is about as little camber as the adjustment will allow you to set.....
Could you tell me if when you say as little adjustment that will allow is that referring to as close to the shock absorber without touching or the opposite way as far a way from the shocker as possible?
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Mark DTM
I have noticed in a previous post of yours regarding camber you said the following:-
1' 20'' is the value I target for front camber......and both as close to each other as possible.....on most Omegas this is about as little camber as the adjustment will allow you to set.....
Could you tell me if when you say as little adjustment that will allow is that referring to as close to the shock absorber without touching or the opposite way as far a way from the shocker as possible?
The opposite, as far from the strutt as it will go (normaly a few mm of adjustement left).
We now use closer to -1deg 10'
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Thank you Mark
I am going down to the garage to ask him what the values are that he set.(as he will not answer my emails)
I know he will blind me with science, say its other reasons etc etc and be quite abrupt then dismisive as he was on the phone when I spoke to him. I will guess he will not have any values to give to me as it was done by eye.
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What you will find is that if you place a spirit level aginst the lowest part of the wheel rim there is about an 8mm gap between the level (at true vertical) and the rim at the top when the camber is correct.
As above, the Vx specs are as already listed
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When I changed my front shocks I didnt buy genuine spares and they were gas shocks .When I had the wheel alingnment done thay told me there was very little clearance between the struts and tyers sorry cant remember size the bigest the car would take. when I got it home I checked the old shocks and the tube on the new shocks were 6mm bigger dia tubes I ended up putting 3 mm spacers behind the wheels to increase the clearance.
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Tube size should have little affect as this can be compensated (to an extent) by the position of the lower mount.....as said, most cars will have 10mm ish sapce when the camber is correct....so a tube that is 6mm larger will only eat into this by 3mm....
By the way, Omega shocks are all gas ones.....from day one of manufacture! :y
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Just back from a stand up with the guy at the garage.
The camber for both wheels is set at -2 .1
he said this is within the tolerence and fine the max being -2 .45 he said according to Vx. The chap seems to know what he is talking about and after banging his books around etc said he wanted another £60 to do a reset as he had already done the job within the tolerences.
I argue the point that the setting was pretty much at the end of the Vx tollerence and said that if a tolerence was say 1 to 10 I would go for 5 not 10, if you get my meaning. Eventually he told me to bring it in on Tuesday pm and he would set it to what ever I wanted. I told him I wanted -1 deg 10`, he said fine but it could affect other things like self centering etc. I am a bit concerned now as if I have any issues after the setting is done I will have absolutley no come back having specified what I want
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self centring is i diffserent setting altogether, as i understand it. Although it "may" be effected by camber, as will other settings. This guy is not up to speed, imho.
When is your MOT due by the way?
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next December
self centring is i diffserent setting altogether, as i understand it. Although it "may" be effected by camber, as will other settings. This guy is not up to speed, imho.
When is your MOT due by the way?
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Yes, self centering is more due to toe.
Can I sudgest that you give Tony at wheels in motion a call and discuss with him the issues. He will most likely supply a set of target settings for them to use.
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Yes, self centering is more due to toe.
Can I sudgest that you give Tony at wheels in motion a call and discuss with him the issues. He will most likely supply a set of target settings for them to use.
Thnks again for the advice . will call Tony
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next December
self centring is i diffserent setting altogether, as i understand it. Although it "may" be effected by camber, as will other settings. This guy is not up to speed, imho.
When is your MOT due by the way?
Thank god for that. Had visions of it failing on wishbone bushes next month and having to do the whole thing again.
Im sure Tony will help, hes a good lad. Wim highly recommended. Pop in there if your ever anywhere near Chesham and M40/M25 junction. Good luck with "old speedy".
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I have just rang Tony at WIM, what a smashing guy. VERY helpful and gave me loads of advice. Thanks to you other guys on here who have helped and Mark , your figures are bang in line with what Tony says too, Thankyou.
Hopefully I will get this sorted asap. To anybody out there who needs this type of work done I would definatley go to Wheels In Motion.I just wish they were located nearer to me