Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: pigtown on 27 January 2009, 18:40:53
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Changed the fuel filter on my 2.2 petrol. I did put it on the correct way following the arrow. Also changed o/s wishbone (probably irrelevant to this problem).
Now the car will not start. Tried using easy start spray but the car fired a few times and stopped.
Any suggestions?
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If you drained the system (forward of the tank), it might take a few seconds/tries to fill the lines and pressurise it again...
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AND STOP USING EASY START!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's soooo bad for your engine!!!
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Check to see if you crushed the fuel line when you jacked it up to change the wish-bone
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i just guessing but is the filter directional if so have u fitted it the right way round
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Asking the obvious, but .........
1) How much fuel's in the tank?
2) Are you positive that the new filter's fitted the correct way?
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The filter is definitely in the right way round - the arrow pointing toward the front (same as the one I took off). There is about 1/4 tank of fuel.
I will check the fuel lines to see if they have been crushed by the jack.
Sorry for using easy start!
When I took the old filter off there wasn't much petrol coming out but I put that down to the fact I jacked the car up from the side so the petrol was angled away from the tank outlet - does that make sense?
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You didn't pull the fuse for the pump and not replace properly? Worth checking anyway.
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The fuel pump fuse was my first thought as well. I checked it a couple of times to make sure and even tested the fuse with a meter to make sure it was still intact.
Could the pump control be damaged with the fuse being pulled on it?
Where exactly is the pump so I can check if it is working when I switch on the ignition?
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When I took the old filter off there wasn't much petrol coming out but I put that down to the fact I jacked the car up from the side so the petrol was angled away from the tank outlet - does that make sense?
on all my cars the fuel has come pouring out as its under pressure (unless you release fuel pressure in engine bay)
switch off all electrical equipment in the car, pull the back seats down, and providing there is no background noise, switch on the ignition, you should hear the pump run until the pressure is built up.
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Good suggestion...
I can't hear the pump when turning on the ignition.
Checked the fuse is definitely intact and with the ignition on no voltage either end of the fuse so it's not being told to turn the pump on.
I changed over the fuel pump and injector relays as they are identical and still no power to the pump.
Could there be an immobiliser signal or something that is stopping it working?
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or a fuel pump reset?
I remember seeing a fuel pump cut out on other cars.
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Just a thought - there was quite a bit of hammering when removing the wishbone. Is there an accelerometer or other sensor that turns off the fuel pump in an crash to avoid fuel being pumped? If so perhaps I could have inadvertently triggered this?
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Not sure off hand if you can access it without removing the plenum but it might be worth releasing the pressure relief valve at the fuel rail and seeing if you get a squirt of fuel. (Its on the drivers side, towards the back and should have a plastic cap on it (like a tyre value cap)).
Are we sure the fuel pump should be powered all the time? or just when required to maintain pressure? If you release the pressure and then turn the ignition on then certainly I would expect the pump to run for a few seconds.
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you could make a direct connection to fuel pump in boot under inspection cover to check :-/
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Tried the pressure relief valve as described. Initially there was some fuel so I kept it pressed until it stopped. Then on with the ignition and cranked it over for a while. Then checking the valve no fuel.
I also took out the fuel filter and tried cranking over and no fuel.
So it seems the petrol pump is not being turned on.
Another variable is that the car also has LPG. Could the valve that changes between petrol & LPG be stuck in LPG mode?? In that case would the fuel pump be disabled?
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anyone know where the LPG/Petrol valve or solenoid is so I can see if it is stuck?
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I don't know what LPG system you have .. but on mine - BRC Sequential - there is no such valve ... the LPG ECU simply turns off the petrol injectors and opens the LPG injectors instead ......this occurs providing 2 conditions are satisfied ... LPG is selected to ON, LPG gas pressure is above some preset value .. it is that simple .....
HTH
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When turning off the petrol injectors does it also turn off the petrol pump?
My LPG system was on the car when I bought it so don't know much about it.
This may be a red herring - all I know is the petrol pump is not being turned on so the car won't start.
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it sounds like there is no power to the pump, but have you checked the pump is working by applying power direct to its terminals?
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You are right there is no power at the pump. There are 4 connections at the pump so not sure which would be the power. I have checked at the fuse and it never gets power so perhaps I can apply 12v at the fuse to see if the pump runs?
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I'm not sure which side of the relay the fuse is, you need someone who can decipher wiring diagrams for that .... (Kevin Wood .. where are you !!!!!!!!!! :) ) ... the fuel pump relay is one of the pink ones in the triangular box by the battery ... see here ..
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1176560725
I'm wondering if the relay, or wiring to the relay box, is FUBAR ??
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I have tried changing over the injectors and pump relays (10 & 20) as they are the same type. I haven't checked the relay wiring ie. is it getting power and the signal to switch on the pump.
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So the realay is giving an output .. but the pump is not recieving an input .... .. I'd be inclined to follow the wiring checking for continuity .... :(
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No I don't know if the relay is giving an output - all I did was swop the 2 relays thinking they wouldn't both fail at the same time.
My suspicion is that whatever tells the pump to turn on isn't doing so and I don't know why. Hence I wondered if the LPG disables it or if there is a fuel cut off that may have been activated.
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Just checked the wiring at the relay (Relay 20).
The power side has a solid red wire one side and a red/blue wire the other. Neither has any voltage with the ignition off. When on the red is at 0.3v the red/blue at 1.7v
I expected one (RED) to have 12v which would be switched to the other when the relay is activated. So does anyone know where the red wire comes from and is there another fuse somewhere on this path that I have overlooked?
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Just bought the Haynes manual for the older Omega as they don't have one for the facelift. £20!!
On the circuit diagram the red wire mentioned above should be at 12v as it goes to the battery via connector FV3. How do I locate where the connector is? Doesn't seem obvious from the manual.
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Have you replaced the fuse or just put the old one back in? I know it's not blown but I had a problem once before that something didn't work on the car checked the fuse and it was ok, swapped it for a new one then it worked again. I think it was the fuse for the dash lights, radio and sunroof, it was some time ago and it was on an Omega as well. Give it a try and see what happens it's only a quick 10 second job worth a try.
Paul :y
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Seems strange it's only happened since a filter change :-/
Just wondering if it's a fuel pressure switch issue, pipe clogged somewhere making it think that it's over pressured, therefore it's cut out until pressure is lower.
A funny one this, I'll be watching this thread, hope you can sort it soon :y
DC
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Seems strange it's only happened since a filter change :-/
Just wondering if it's a fuel pressure switch issue, pipe clogged somewhere making it think that it's over pressured, therefore it's cut out until pressure is lower.
A funny one this, I'll be watching this thread, hope you can sort it soon :y
DC
Is it worth removing the filter again and getting someone quickly to turn on the ignition - I think that should result in fuel being pumped out of the tank side hose..?
You've not nipped a fuel pipe with jack/stands when you were doing the w/bones ?
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I tried removing the filter again and cranked over the engine - no fuel came out the pipe.
I'm also dubious why it happened after the filter change that's why I wondered if there is a fuel cut off that's been triggered - or a fuel pressure sensor if there is one.
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You should have 12v at the red wire into the fuel pump relay at all times. This is fed from the 30A fusible link in the little box above the battery positive terminal.
Note both the purple relays (fuel pump relay and main relay) have red feed and red and blue output wires. The fuel pump will have a smaller blue and red wire IIRC.
If you bridge the red and blue and red wires at the relay base (the two broader spade pins on the relay) The fuel pump should run.
If you don't have 12v at the fuel pump relay, suspect the 30a fusible link. If you do, and bridging the contacts doesn't run the fuel pump suspect fuse 18 in the dashboard fuse box. This sits between the relay and the pump.
Note the engine management will only activate the pump via the relay when it has detected cranking.
Kevin
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You should have 12v at the red wire into the fuel pump relay at all times. This is fed from the 30A fusible link in the little box above the battery positive terminal.
Note both the purple relays (fuel pump relay and main relay) have red feed and red and blue output wires. The fuel pump will have a smaller blue and red wire IIRC.
If you bridge the red and blue and red wires at the relay base (the two broader spade pins on the relay) The fuel pump should run.
If you don't have 12v at the fuel pump relay, suspect the 30a fusible link. If you do, and bridging the contacts doesn't run the fuel pump suspect fuse 18 in the dashboard fuse box. This sits between the relay and the pump.
Note the engine management will only activate the pump via the relay when it has detected cranking.
Kevin
Coincidental, but, paperclip test for a code 19, maybe a crank sensor issue??????????? :-/
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Coincidental, but, paperclip test for a code 19, maybe a crank sensor issue??????????? :-/
Could well be. :y It hinges on whether the pump can be persuaded to run by bridging the relay contacts.
Keivn
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Well Done Kevin Wood!!
No 12v at the relay so checked the 30A fuse and sure enough it was blown. Put some 30A fusewire across to check it and the car fired up straight away.
Not sure how I blew it - maybe when removing fuse 18 to depressurise the system?
Thanks for all the help guys.
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Good Stuff ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Clever bloke that Mr Woods .. :y :y :y :y
Glad to hear its fixed :)