Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 12:26:12

Title: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 12:26:12
Hi all just fitted some new front brake pads.i took the brake fliuld cap off so when i pushed the piston/s in it wouldnt make to much pressure.Anyway after fitting them i started the car up and pumped the brake pedal it got hard but it went down to the floor.I then took out some brake fluild and the brakes got alot harder and better but still went to the floor.Do you think iv got some air in ther brakes
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: tunnie on 10 February 2009, 12:29:03
Quote
Hi all just fitted some new front brake pads.i took the brake fliuld cap off so when i pushed the piston/s in it wouldnt make to much pressure.Anyway after fitting them i started the car up and pumped the brake pedal it got hard but it went down to the floor.I then took out some brake fluild and the brakes got alot harder and better but still went to the floor.Do you think iv got some air in ther brakes

How much fluid was in the tank?

You did not need to open it really, just lift the caliper up, and push it in with a large G-Clamp or something, then pop the new pads in.
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 12:46:23
well it over filled thats why i took some fluilded out but like i said it did made the brakes alot better but pedal still goes to the floor so i think theres air in the brakes
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Seth on 10 February 2009, 12:54:38
I've not heard of this happening on an Omega, but have on Astras and Vectras ........

There's a possibility here that you've 'flipped' the seals in the master cylinder, when you retracted the brake caliper piston to fit the new pads. Caused by reversing the flow of the fluid against the seals, and will mean a new master cylinder!

However, try a good bleeding first and see what happens.
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 13:04:05
A new master cylinder :o i hope not.I`ll try with bleeding it first
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: VXL V6 on 10 February 2009, 13:23:22
Quote
Quote
Hi all just fitted some new front brake pads.i took the brake fliuld cap off so when i pushed the piston/s in it wouldnt make to much pressure.Anyway after fitting them i started the car up and pumped the brake pedal it got hard but it went down to the floor.I then took out some brake fluild and the brakes got alot harder and better but still went to the floor.Do you think iv got some air in ther brakes

How much fluid was in the tank?

You did not need to open it really just lift the caliper up, and push it in with a large G-Clamp or something, then pop the new pads in.

Disagree, by doing that you are forcing fluid backwards, I would open the bleed nipple, attach a pipe then push the piston back which would expel the old fluid in the caliper out rather than backwards.

Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 14:44:28
So do you think its just abit of air.the brakes are good and hard and stop the car quick like they did before just if i push the brake hard it slowly goes to the floor
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Iain on 10 February 2009, 14:53:12
Did you bleed them? if so make sure the nipples are tight is they are try bleeding them again mate
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 14:54:30
No i havent tryed to bleed them yet as im all by myself and no one to lend a hand.well take it to my mates in the next day or 2
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Kevin Wood on 10 February 2009, 14:57:16
Quote
So do you think its just abit of air.the brakes are good and hard and stop the car quick like they did before just if i push the brake hard it slowly goes to the floor

If the pedal is not spongy but gradually sinks to the floor under prolonged pressure the fluid is leaking past a seal somewhere. Check each of the calipers as you will see fluid leaking from these. If nothing evident it's probably the master cylinder.

I agree it's good practice to open the bleed nipple when retracting the cylinder. The fluid in the cylinder will be manky so may as well get rid of it. I normally flush a bit of fresh fluid through the system using a pressure bleeder whenever I've worked on the brakes both to bleed it and to effect a partial fluid change.

Kevin
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 15:06:17
If the pedal is not spongy but gradually sinks to the floor under prolonged pressure the fluid is leaking past a seal somewhere. Check each of the calipers as you will see fluid leaking from these. If nothing evident it's probably the master cylinder.


Thats how the brake pedal feels.Shall i still try giving it a bleed or just get a new master cylinder
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 10 February 2009, 15:12:43
Right....a litle trick from Astra/Corsa's.

Get a rubber mallet and press the brake pedal right to the floor.

Let go of the brake pedal and as you do, get somebody to wallop the end of the master cylinder with the mallet.

Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 15:15:49
 :-? what would that do
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 10 February 2009, 15:17:26
Quote
:-? what would that do

It corrects inverted seals!
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 15:20:59
Ohhh i see well i`ll give that a try thanks for that mate :y
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 16:50:33
So with me having the brake fluid cap off would that couse so air getting in
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Kevin Wood on 10 February 2009, 17:07:23
Quote
So with me having the brake fluid cap off would that couse so air getting in

Nope. The cap has a breather hole in it anyway to allow air in.  :y

Air will only get in if the level is allowed to get very low, or part of the system downstream of the reservoir is disconnected. Air results in a spongy pedal at all times so the fact that you have a hard pedal (albeit creeping a bit) rules out air in the system.

Kevin
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: jonathanh on 10 February 2009, 17:07:36
Quote
So with me having the brake fluid cap off would that couse so air getting in

no providing the fluid level was maintained in the resevoir
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 17:10:47
So it looks like i have a leak somewhere
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Kevin Wood on 10 February 2009, 17:16:50
Quote
So it looks like i have a leak somewhere

I would try Mark's master cylinder seal trick. :y Assuming there are no obvious fluid leaks.

Kevin
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Dazzler on 10 February 2009, 17:18:54
Bleed the brakes first matey....
Is the fluid clean or slightly black??

This can happen to the pedal sometimes on a pad change, it happened on mine, i changed the fluid and bled the system, then all was well again.
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 17:23:04
its does look abit old and blackish.I`ll try bleeding them first with new fluid and try what mark said but at the same time i`ll have a look at the brake hoses before i do anything
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 February 2009, 18:15:53
If it is the master cylinder do i have to replace the whole lot or just the black o-ring
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Andy B on 10 February 2009, 21:06:27
Quote
If it is the master cylinder do i have to replace the whole lot or just the black o-ring

'O' ring????? Never played with the Omega brakes but I'd change complete master cylinder. I have even read in the past, that it's best to change master cylinders complete with the servo, that way you're distubing as little as of the hydraulics as possible.  :-/  :y
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 11 February 2009, 13:41:52
Did Mark's master cylinder seal trick and it made the brake alot better but still not 100 per cent.Iv checked the brake hoses and there fine too so i think i might be looking at a new master cylinder or do you think i should still try bleeding them
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Loch View on 11 February 2009, 13:48:30
when you say alot better do you mean it still goes to the bottom but slower or does it just feel spongy now?
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 11 February 2009, 14:03:46
it doesnt go to the bottom now but still goes down more then it should

Oh and its not spongy
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Loch View on 11 February 2009, 14:05:35
Ok, then before you go off buying new parts I'd drive it (carefully) for a couple days. Chances are the pads just need bedding in and the pedal will probably return to normal after a few days
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 11 February 2009, 14:10:24
Ok mate i`ll give that ago :y lets hope it does sort its self out
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Loch View on 11 February 2009, 14:12:54
Fingers crossed  :y

I've had a similar problem in the past and it took about 60 - 70 miles before they returned back to normal.
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Kevin Wood on 11 February 2009, 14:45:26
It's normal for the pedal to feel a little "odd" when the brakes are still bedding in. At this stage I'd go with the "drive it carefully for a few days" advice as long as you feel it's safe to drive.

Kevin
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: blue_dream on 11 February 2009, 16:44:12
Hi guys
           Would it be a good idea to have the car running as to operate the abs pump when bleeding the brakes  :-?
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Loch View on 11 February 2009, 16:54:43
no, always bleed the brakes with engine off  :y
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 11 February 2009, 17:16:57
Quote
it doesnt go to the bottom now but still goes down more then it should

Oh and its not spongy

If its not going to the floor thn teh master cylinder is fine  :y

Replace the fluid and it should improve more
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Jukeboxnut on 11 February 2009, 17:38:11
I agree that it would be a very good idea to change the fuid, it should be changed every 2 years as part of the service schedule.

If you are on your own it is really worth investing in a Gunsons Easibleed kit, I have been using one for several years now and it is excellent, flushes all the old muck out in no time!
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Loch View on 15 February 2009, 09:44:30
Devonboy, any improvement yet?
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Miggy24 on 15 February 2009, 13:59:19
Hi there yes seems all fine now did a 400 mile trip on friday so all good now  :y
Title: Re: Just fitted new front brake pads but not very hapy
Post by: Loch View on 15 February 2009, 14:18:58
told ya  :y