Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 16:42:16

Title: Timing belt won't!
Post by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 16:42:16
I'm trying to set the timing after fitting a new belt kit. Before starting I line up the camshaft sprockets and fit the belt. Set the adjusters point up on the middle one and left on the right hand one. Set the tensioner and then rotate the engine through 720 degrees. When I check the timing marks, both banks have moved to the left by about just under half inch, and I just cannot bring bank 3/4 round any closer that about 4mm from the marks.

I had the same trouble for a while last year but got there in the end - can't remember how. Anyine know what I'm doing wrong?
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: VX1 on 18 February 2009, 16:58:47
Might be better if you use the cam locking tool for the cams, makes life easier.

Paul  :y
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 18 February 2009, 17:21:30
Quote
Might be better if you use the cam locking tool for the cams, makes life easier.

Paul  :y

Indeed Paul, and the experts on here will tell you that you cannot properly set the cams without the locking kit! ::) ::) ::) ::)

So to avoid engine damage Chris I suggest you obtain a locking kit before you go any further! ;)
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 17:27:02
Sorry, don't think I explained correctly. I am using the cam locking kit... no problem there... the problem happens when I remove the locks and rotate the engine - as you have to do - when I lock the crankshaft to check and ajust, the timing marks have moved - as expected, because you have to turn the pullies - with the 30mm crank spanner... i cannot bring the timing marks round to line up...

Not sure if I explained that any better either!
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: HGV mechanic on 18 February 2009, 17:30:44
to me it sounds like you have not taken enought slack out when tensioning,  realign and re tension, hth :)
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: ngrainqey on 18 February 2009, 18:17:39
are you talking about the timing marks on the actual pullies?
if you get the belt on so the slacks on mostly where the tensioner is and where the idlers are is as tight(as little slack as possible) as you can get it on then it should be within quarter of an inch when you turn the crank the 720 degrees :y
HTH
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 18:24:19
Thank for the advise. I've tried what HVG said but after rotating 720 degress banks 1&2 are almost spot on - banks 3&4 are about quaryet of an inch before the timing moarks. The only porblem is that turning the lower pulley does not advance the timing at all now... it just turns and does nothing.

I tried doing it the haynes way as oppsoed to the dvd way but that does not work for me either.

I get all of the slack out from the belt when fitting it but there are no marks on my belt to align with the scrokets - could I have it too tight? :-? Gonna start again doing it the dvd way :(
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 February 2009, 18:40:15
Right, the lower right pulley should be set to 3.00 and the upper to 12.00.........sounds like you are setting the lower right one WRONG and hence you have no adjustment available and the belt is going on a tooth out
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Chris_H on 18 February 2009, 19:30:29
As someone who just did his cambelt change 2 hrs ago (not fired it up yet!) I suspect the top tensioner needs dropping i.e. tightening.  That should pull 3 & 4 towards 1 & 2.
If it runs out of adjustment then you need to back it off fully, hop the belt back one tooth on the right bank and re-tension.
My 0.02GBP
Technical or what?
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 19:42:54
I've just set it up again and here are some photos of the current state so you can tell if I'm doing something wrong. I'm gonna have something to eat and then rotate the crank, after which, they will be about half inch out and I won't be able to  get any closer that a quarter inch... Moving the belt sounds good though... might just try that :)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo46/debelc/P1000121.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo46/debelc/P1000122.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo46/debelc/P1000123.jpg)
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Chris_H on 18 February 2009, 19:46:54
Your top adjuster looks to be on minimum.  Have you set it?

If you pull it down 1/8 inch it should bring the right bank in by 1/4 inch.
You will have to re-set the spring-loaded tensioner though.
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 19:48:46
Quote
Your top adjuster looks to be on minimum.  Have you set it?

Yes, I set it as Mark DTM said - top one at 12 o'clock, lower one to 3 o'clock...
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 February 2009, 19:49:25
The crank lock should be fitted for a start!

We dont know if the crank is at TDC!
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 19:52:56
Quote
The crank lock should be fitted for a start!

We dont know if the crank is at TDC!

Oh, sorry, I had just removed it. I had it 60 btdc while I was setting the cams in place, then I put it on and locked it on tdc, and then removed it after I torqued the bolts - 40nm for the rollers and 20 for the tensioner nut. Incidently, the tensioner has always moved a long way out after turning the crank, even though tightened to 20nm...
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Chris_H on 18 February 2009, 19:53:52
Quote
top one at 12 o'clock, lower one to 3 o'clock...
There's no point in an adjuster if you set it like that. :D
Put the locks back in and set it to take out the slack.
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 19:55:31
Quote
Quote
top one at 12 o'clock, lower one to 3 o'clock...
There's no point in an adjuster if you set it like that. :D

Ahh.... tell me more!  ;D
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 18 February 2009, 19:57:07
Quote
Quote
Your top adjuster looks to be on minimum.  Have you set it?

Yes, I set it as Mark DTM said - top one at 12 o'clock, lower one to 3 o'clock...

I think people get a bit confused with the 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock setting. This is to start off with. You then adjust accordingly.

As Mark has said the crank is not locked in position to hold in the TDC position, in which case you could be wrong altogether.
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 February 2009, 19:58:38
Quote
Quote
top one at 12 o'clock, lower one to 3 o'clock...
There's no point in an adjuster if you set it like that. :D
Put the locks back in and set it to take out the slack.


Ah, somebody who has not grasped the details of the timing setup.

You set them to that as this is the minimal adjustment resulting in the shortest belt run.

You then move them anti-clockwise to set the timing.

Can you set the tensioner much tighter for the first setting...
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 19:59:02
Quote
Quote
Quote
Your top adjuster looks to be on minimum.  Have you set it?

Yes, I set it as Mark DTM said - top one at 12 o'clock, lower one to 3 o'clock...

I think people get a bit confused with the 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock setting. This is to start off with. You then adjust accordingly.

As Mark has said the crank is not locked in position to hold in the TDC position, in which case you could be wrong altogether.

But it was locked... I only just removed it because I'm at the point now where I need to turn the crank over  :)
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 February 2009, 20:00:11
Ok, so set the tensioner much tighter, a good 15mm past the mark for the first setup
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 18 February 2009, 20:01:30
Quote
Quote
The crank lock should be fitted for a start!

We dont know if the crank is at TDC!

Oh, sorry, I had just removed it. I had it 60 btdc while I was setting the cams in place, then I put it on and locked it on tdc, and then removed it after I torqued the bolts - 40nm for the rollers and 20 for the tensioner nut. Incidently, the tensioner has always moved a long way out after turning the crank, even though tightened to 20nm...

So did you when the old cambelt was on, turn the crank until the cams were nearly in place, then put on the crank locking tool, turn the crank a little more to lock it to the water pump? then look if the cams were lined up properly? if they were then put in the cam locks? If not line up the cams first?
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 February 2009, 20:03:31
The initial cam alignment looks fine.

Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 21:04:38
Quote
Ok, so set the tensioner much tighter, a good 15mm past the mark for the first setup

YIPEE !! Setting the tensioner much higher seems to have done the trick. The timing did not move too far out after the first 720 and I was able to adjust it after fe few more rotations till it's now spot on.

I'm scared to reset the tension though - it's all the way to the left most stop. Will it throw things out if I set it back to the 4mm mark?
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 February 2009, 21:06:53
Quote
Quote
Ok, so set the tensioner much tighter, a good 15mm past the mark for the first setup

YIPEE !! Setting the tensioner much higher seems to have done the trick. The timing did not move too far out after the first 720 and I was able to adjust it after fe few more rotations till it's now spot on.

I'm scared to reset the tension though - it's all the way to the left most stop. Will it throw things out if I set it back to the 4mm mark?

Nope, the trick is to set the tension high for the first adjustment so it can take up the belt slack.....having set the cams and rotated the engine, the tension can then be reset properly without any affect on the timing
Title: Re: Timing belt won't!
Post by: chrisdb on 18 February 2009, 21:09:08
Quote
Quote
Quote
Ok, so set the tensioner much tighter, a good 15mm past the mark for the first setup

YIPEE !! Setting the tensioner much higher seems to have done the trick. The timing did not move too far out after the first 720 and I was able to adjust it after fe few more rotations till it's now spot on.

I'm scared to reset the tension though - it's all the way to the left most stop. Will it throw things out if I set it back to the 4mm mark?

Nope, the trick is to set the tension high for the first adjustment so it can take up the belt slack.....having set the cams and rotated the engine, the tension can then be reset properly without any affect on the timing

Cheers, thank you very much - I might even get finished in time for work tomorrow  ;D