Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: edmsecurity on 24 February 2009, 22:10:59
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Now I have a feeling someone is going to say it's my own fault for taking it there but here goes anyway.
Took the car to Mr Clutch to have a new clutch and thrust bearing fitted(Ex-Police so manual). 4 hours or so later and £525 from my wallet and I pick her up, so far so good.
I get around half miles down the road and the dreaded engine management light comes on and she starts misfiring pretty badly.
Plugged her in and faults say "Multiple Misfires and Misfires on Cylindres 1,3&5.
I have tried a new dis pack and Mr Clutch have taken gearbox off and on again and still car is running the same.
All hoses look connected and there appear to be no unconnected wires.
Car goes into limp mode if driven too long/hard.
My only real option seems to take it to local Vauxhall stealer and leave them with an open cheque.
Can anyone help???
Car is 02 plate 3.2 saloon with 60k on the clock,
Before it went in the engine was sweet.
Error codes. p0300 p0301 p0303 p0305
and have tried different ignition coil pack and no change
Thanks in advance
Robert
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Keep an eye on my post couple below yours exactly same problem
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Just a thought check the lambor sensor connection on that side
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Have a damn good look around the back of the engine, especially the injector plugs and other electrical connections ...
I reckon the muppets have either knocked something loose, or not connected back up correctly.
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I have changed the coil pack, Changed the Spark Plugs,
Can the lamba sensor cause that problem and also the injector wiring loom. is that the connector comming out of the back of the engine sort of center of the plenum.
They have also had it back for the best part of two days and i think its worse.
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Have a damn good look around the back of the engine, especially the injector plugs and other electrical connections ...
I reckon the muppets have either knocked something loose, or not connected back up correctly.
agreed ..electrical problem..reconnect the sockets.. and check if any electrical cable is squeezed or cut, and making earth..
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The loom for 1-3-5 runs back of the engine into the plastic cable run on the ns before heading to the ECU, the lambor sensor can send false into to the ECU and cause the air/fuel mixture to be wrong on one bank, this problem is a nightmare i have the same problem and if i find my cure i will let you know do the same pse.
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could the engine management unit next to the car battery cause these problems. i only ask because when i got the car back when they done the clutch the cover in that compartment was not put on correctly and the battery terminals where loose too.
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i have checked the lead from the coil pack which just seems to go behind the engine and into the main wiring loom to the right with no other connectors.
if the lamba sensor had an issue wouldnt a fault light come on and be flagged in the ecu
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go for a known professional and let him check the cam belt positions :y
ps: found a similiar case on the net..
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I cant see how they could of messed up the cam belt but that did cross my mind. i am trying to get them to pay for it to go to vauxhall as i would hope if anyone could find it it would be them.
I was hoping it would of been sorted by now.
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Whilst a Lambda sensor could easily have been dislodged, I wouldn't expect them to affect the running, at least not until the engine has warmed up a bit. If it misfires straight from cold I would suspect something else.
IIRC, if the coil primaries had been interrupted other codes would be raised. Might be worth checking the multiway connector that feeds the injectors, which is behind the passenger side cylinder head.
If you're close to one of us who has a Tech 2 it would be worth a session to see if something can be gleaned from the live data.
Kevin
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Just noticed that you're not a million miles away from me. Could possibly have a look at it if you like?
Kevin
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and me, in slough now! Earlys til 2pm.
Have you tried the pedal trick to confirm?
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I have a obdii lead and checked it with vauxcheck software and it just reports P0300, P0301, P0303 P0305
Which is a misfire on cylinders 1 3 5 8-)
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isnt that pedal trick only relevant to a automatic as trying taht in a manual will stall it.
You do both pedals when stationary and handbrake on.... ;)
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isnt that pedal trick only relevant to a automatic as trying taht in a manual will stall it.
You do both pedals when stationary and handbrake on.... ;)
..... and engine OFF - saves it getting revved to destruction..... :y
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see here for pedal trick,
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189022687
1,3,5 is drivers side. (well, you never know)
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I have listed the fault codes which are as follows:
P0300 Random/multiple cylinder misfire detected
P0301 Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0303 Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0305 Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected
No other faults are shown.
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So you have fitted a new coil pack to the 1-3-5 bank (drivers side?)
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I have tried a new coil pack and still the same.
If I drive the car stone cold it seems to drive fine for quarter of mile and then goes all lumpey as if it has got warmed up and then the warning light comes on flashing and then goes solid and then the car goes into limp mode.
Mr Clutch have taken it back today for one of there autoelectricians to have a look as they spent two days earlier this week and got know where.
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I have just picked my car back up which Mr Clutch has had all afternoon and claim there Auto-Electrician claims it must be the ecu.
They say sometimes when you disconnect the car battery ecu can forget all or some of there settings. i dont beleive that.
What is the Module that the engine wiring loom plugs into under the bonnet next to the car battery where a load of relays and fuses are.
Is there a way to check there theory.
I would of thought if the ecu was bad you would get some major messages
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ok..talked to a mechanic friend..
he said briefly :
* if the engine become worse after warm up either lambda sensor or ECU
* if it becomes better after warm up its definitely cam belt timing
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I have listed the fault codes which are as follows:
P0300 Random/multiple cylinder misfire detected
P0301 Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0303 Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0305 Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected
No other faults are shown.
Ok, could you directly answer 2 questions.
1. Can you confirm it is the drivers side coil pac that has been changed?
2. Can you confirm the codes listed via the pedal trick only please?
Code readers can be fussy about what info they give out in my experience. The pedal trick is more direct. Only tech2 is more accurate for the engine ecu imho.
0
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1. I have changed the drivers side coil and no change.
2. Yes i have done the pedal test which has the same results as my software.
0300
0301
0303
0305
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Ok, can you check the wires connected to the coil pak for damage....particularly the black wire.
The black wire should also have 12V to it with the engine running/ignition on
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Hi Mark
I have checked the Brown wire which i have found to be Ground
I have checked the Black Wire which has permanent feed.
and the wires seem ok.
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Did you have a mass flywheel fitted too? I'm thinking not for that price. anyway if you did, when they removed bolts from mass flywheel they might have turned engine backwards therefore could have jumped one or two teeth on timing? tensioner cam belt pulley becomes slack when crank is turned wrong way, might be worth checking timing before a nice bill for a new ecu or refurb ect...
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They told me that the mass flywheel did not need replacing.
Thank god as they wanted £420 for that.
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Now, thinking about it, they had to remove the pressure plate and its 6 bolts so they could have turned the engine backwards..
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But would this cause a problem with just one side of the engine?
Surely this would affect the entire engine!
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not necessarily, i`ve had timing belt tensioners break up but holding in there, and bottom crank was 90degree out from set timing but only one side`s valves bent plus EML was on dash. I`m just saying, it might pay off to check your timing marks.
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any other clues :-/
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well, depends on the true meaning of the codes i guess. Does a missfire code mean there is no spark at all, or just that the cylinder is not firing correctly.
If the latter then that could mean all sorts from blocked exhaust to no fuel. What would stop that bank firing but not give a specific code as there are no other codes? May mean coil pack was not needed/the cause.
If your happy the wiring is giving 12 volts then i guess you need to look else where. Wiring to that bank of injectors? And as Rob says, timing? Gulp.
But why would it run ok until warm?
Maybe Mark will be along in the morning. Sorry cant be of more help.
Just a thought but are the coil pacs bank specific? No that would be too much of a coincidence for the original to fail as well?
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If it really does run fine while warming up I would suggest they might have dislodged the coolant temperature sensor wire from the back of the engine? If the ECU thinks the engine is always stone cold, it will go to pot when it warms up.
Failing that Lambda sensors but I would expect a specific code for this.
Do you have access to a reader that will do live data? just wondering if you can check the coolant temperature is reading sensible?
Turning the engine backwards is a possibility and likely to mess up the timing but if it runs OK when cold I'd say it's less likely.
ECU faulire is not likely at all IMHO (unless they've abused it in some way!).
I will try and get over to you with a Tech 2. PM sent, BTW. :y
Kevin
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Hi All
When i first start the car in the morning it does not seem to misfire at all and almost takes off as you would expect.
Then i get a couple hundred yards down the road and it starts to misfire, then the warning lights starts to flash then go solid and then limits you to about 30 mile an hour which is quite embarassing i can tell you.
I have played around with the cables at the back of the engine. And it did go a couple of miles with no problem, then i stopped at the cash till and it started to flash again and misfire. I cant see any broken wires.
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Mr Clutch has now left it as they dont know what they have done. :'(
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Sorry to say but it might be a trip to your local Vauxhall Stealer to sort out mate, (ouch)
It's bound to be something silly to fix once the problem is actually located.
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i think Kevins offer with tech2 is a far better idea.
Dealers will charge 50 to 80 a go just to tell you they dont know whats wrong, sorry, scratch that.
Rather than be honest and tell you they dont know whats wrong, they will most likely tell you it needs a new ecu, or whatever the most expensive relevant part is and blindly change it and expect the bill paid, even though the car is no better.
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I have made a complaint to mr clutches head office. i seem to here nothing but bad stories.
I will contact kevin later to see if he can have a look this weekend. :-[
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Hi All.
I have finally got it fixed. :D
It was the ECU beleive it or not. Changed it and the little black box under the steering and she is fine apart from one lamber sensor playing up. Well its dead.
It seems mr clutch may of reversed the positive and negative when the removed my battery as the battery clamp was missing and i do remember when i collected it that the battery clamps where not done up correctly and some of the covers in that area where loose.
Good old Mr Clutch and i am still waiting for there head office to sort it ::)
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ok..talked to a mechanic friend..
he said briefly :
* if the engine become worse after warm up either lambda sensor or ECU
* if it becomes better after warm up its definitely cam belt timing
I'm sure they damage the ECU..
and now at least your problem is sorted, good news :y
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good news. Glad your back on the road. :-)
Gold star to cem.
Whats the black box under stearing wheel?
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Not often an ECU fails, so makes me wonder how they managed it. :o
Was the new ECU also from a manual? It might be mis-configured if not. Not a big deal but it might be throwing fault codes about not being able to talk to autobox ECU.
What codes is the lambda sensor causing?
Kevin
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good news. Glad your back on the road. :-)
Gold star to cem.
Whats the black box under stearing wheel?
Thanks..Actually mechanic friends deserve the goldstar :y