Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Kevin Wood on 02 November 2007, 11:13:12
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Hi All,
As discussed in other threads a few of us are considering LPG conversion, and with Jay W having gone for one of these kits, pleased with it and getting on nicely with the install by the sounds of it, let's see what firm interest we have.
This is the kit:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330170356040
I have spoken to the guy about the possibility of a discount for buying in bulk and something is on the cards. Probably not much and depending on numbers but there is at least the potential to save a little. We shouldn't need as much of his time by us not all buying individually and requiring support individually.
For the really keen here is the manual:
http://www.ac.com.pl/autogaz/programy/pliki/Instruction%20of%20Stag-200,%20Stag-300%20controller.pdf
If you have a 4 pot I don't doubt that he'll be able to supply a kit for that, so don't let that put you off.
In addition, an LPG party has been mooted. I'm not sure what format this would take. Having had a look over my car last night the install is going to be quite involved and I wonder if we could make that much progress on a number of cars over the course of a day / weekend, however, we could regard it as a day to share experiences of the wrong and right way to do things, we could ensure that cars are prepared with pipes run and holes drilled beforehand and regard it as a "finishing-off" session. Comments welcome.
So, let's see who's interested.
I think what we need to gather is the following:
Your name
Your location
Your engine
Front End required? - the bits under the bonnet (evaporator, injectors, ecu, sensors, wiring loom)
Back End Required? - the bits in the boot (Tank, straps, valves, filler)
Preferred tank type? - just out of interest (Cylinder, toroidal (Estate), vertical toroidal (saloon))
Interested in an LPG party?
So, I'll set the ball rolling:
Kevin Wood, Alton, 3.2 V6, Yes, Yes, Cylinder / V. toroid, Yes
Over to you....
Kevin
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If not far from Worcester I could attend, haven't got the room for more than two visiting cars unfortunately
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I might be intrested in this as i want to replace my mixer front end with a front end injection system.
Craig Rennie
Watford
2.0l 4 Pot
Yes
No
No
None
Yes
:y
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Something i'd definately be interested in, and i reckon that would include Jim as well.
So....
Kev, Glasgow, 3.0 V6, Yes, Yes, ???, Yes
With regard to the tank, is it possible to have it without having the filler on the outside of the car?
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The filler can go through the rear bumper.... :-?
No? Didn't think you'd like that one ;)
They can be mounted on a towbar so I would imagine it's acceptable to mount it on some kind of bracket just under the bumper. I think it needs to be 200mm off the ground.
Kevin
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If not far from Worcester I could attend, haven't got the room for more than two visiting cars unfortunately
Thanks, Martin. Input from those who've been there before and lived with an install for a while would be much appreciated.
Kevin
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I'm Definetly Intrested :y
Jim
Glasgow (London during the week)
30.v6 short plenum
YES
YES
Vertical or donut for spare wheel well
LPG Party Yes (willing to travel down south)
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I'm Definetly Intrested :y
Jim
Glasgow (London during the week)
30.v6 short plenum
YES
YES
Vertical or donut for spare wheel well
LPG Party Yes (willing to travel down south)
;D ;D ;D
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I'm Definetly Intrested :y
Jim
Glasgow (London during the week)
30.v6 short plenum
YES
YES
Vertical or donut for spare wheel well
LPG Party Yes (willing to travel down south)
;D ;D ;D
Just Thought I would Add That, In case it made any diffirence ;D ;D
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I would be interested too:
So here goes
Andrew Terry
Hayes in Middlesex (near Heathrow)
2.5 V6 (1998 mini facelift)
Yes (Front End)
Yes (Back End)
Tank type - I would prefer a cylinder as apparently these are larger capacity
LPG party - defiantly!
I would add that I am willing to travel to where ever
Andrew
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Interested, Price we are looking at? and time of year.
Ryan.
Ashford Middx (Near Heathrow)
3.0 V6 (1997)
Yes
Yes
Tank ?
Party, Yes.
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The filler can go through the rear bumper.... :-?
No? Didn't think you'd like that one ;)
They can be mounted on a towbar so I would imagine it's acceptable to mount it on some kind of bracket just under the bumper. I think it needs to be 200mm off the ground.
Kevin
Ideally i'd like it to be somewhere it can't be seen.
I take it having the filler inside the boot is a no no? :-?
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Batch production
OK you need to sort out batch production of brackets and stuff I think there are being made evaporator brackets.
For cylinder tanks it would be worth making a template and drilling all the cars at one go, also drilling the two floor holes at the same time.
ECU I suggest making a plate to mount it on as the drillable areas won't always match up with ECU holes.
I have a GRP/aluminium mesh plate in mine.
Need 3 layers to do in metal
Plate itself
spacer
lug to fit in body join
There are a couple of places to run wires out of that area, mainly around the scuttle to body bit, and the big cable connector on the front
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I take it having the filler inside the boot is a no no?
Unfortunately it appears so. Any gas connections must be isolated from the vehicle interior and vented to the underside so my interpretation is that you can't have a connection to the tank that is accessible from the boot.
Kevin
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Indicentally, I mentioned vertical toroidal tanks as the only alternative to a cylinder tank for a saloon. They aren't cheap (circa 300 quid for the tank) and it remains to be seen how much capacity can be squeezed into the spare wheel well. I'm just not sure I'm ready to give up enough boot space for a cylinder. Fitting a toroidal is also going to be a headache because routing the LPG pipes away from the exhaust under the car presents some challenges.
Kevin
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Spare Wheel tanks are no good for saloon omegas as you cant get to the rear light cluster on that side its ok for estates like TD has as it gos on the rear floor
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the filler does have to be exterior mounted, however it can be colour coded if that would help hide it.
one other thing to point out, all the feedback I have have about vertical tanks is that they do give issues, are expensive and suppliers can be few and far between
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Spare Wheel tanks are no good for saloon omegas as you cant get to the rear light cluster on that side its ok for estates like TD has as it gos on the rear floor
I think you can just get to the rear cluster mounting nuts, and so if you need to replace the bulb, you could remove the whole assy and get to it that way. I think Sassenach had a tank in the spare tyre well, and how often do you need to change these bulbs?. If it causes a bit of agro every 3 years, its not a lot of trouble, and if the tank were connected with a flexible pipe, then the whole tank could be removed if there was a problem. Flexible unbraided pipes are used for connecting up Gas welding tanks, and Accetylene is a lot more dangerous than LPG.
Ken
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I am interested, as I have most of the bits to do it, but always seem to run out of time !. I got an OMVL 21C system, and one of these multi system programming kits.
OK, here's the data:
Ken Termie
Gomersal (can travel !)
2.2L auto.
need a programming dongle.
Need pipes (both dia's), pipe connectors, rear filler, and poss tank.
Vert Toroid. I use my boot a lot, so couldn't give up the space for a cylinder.
party, yes please !
I thought the LPG guidance notes said that a pipe within 10" of the exhaust needed heat shielding. So you stick a piece of something between the tank and pipe. Mind you in this situation the tank will prob be closer than 10" to the exhaust, and there is only a piece of tin between them.
Would it not be poss to use a hor toroid vertically, if you modified the filler cutoff to give the 80% when in that orientation. Might be as simple as rotating the filler/cutoff assy through 90deg. Would cost a lot less.
Ken
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Well, that's 8 of us interested, including JamesV6CDX who I know is up for it.
The supplier can get hold of 4 different sizes of vertical toroidal tank, so there's plenty of scope for finding the best fit, although working out how to route the pipes needs some thought. Whilst this won't give fantastic range on LPG I work a mile from an LPG garage so a regular fillup won't be too bad. I've lived with a Westfield that only does 165 to the tank for 7 years and it's not too much of a hardship.
One idea I had for the light cluster issue is that you can get replacement LED bulbs to fit in the socket of a normal filament bulb. These should, in theory, have a much longer life than filament bulbs so may be worth considering. They'll probably need some load resistors adding to keep the flasher unit / MID bulb failure sensing happy.
Anyway, looking good.
Any more interested?
Kevin
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i had the largest tank you can get in the spare wheel well with an actual capacity of 41 litres(ive since fitted a 100 litre tank across the rear seats)i routed the pipe around the rear of the car behind the bumper to avoid the exhaust altogether.as a ps you can now get flexible plastic lpg pipe instead of copper,makes it a lot easier to route the pipe to the front.
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I think it is easier to route up the right hand side
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Kevin,
Can the supplier supply the cylinder type tanks? I am not too concerned about boot space and range on LPG is more important to me as no stations near me stock LPG :(
Your idea about the LED replacement bulbs is a good one although, as you say, a series resistor will no doubt be required.
I am defiantly up for this and look forward more information.
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i had the largest tank you can get in the spare wheel well with an actual capacity of 41 litres(ive since fitted a 100 litre tank across the rear seats)i routed the pipe around the rear of the car behind the bumper to avoid the exhaust altogether.as a ps you can now get flexible plastic lpg pipe instead of copper,makes it a lot easier to route the pipe to the front.
I am guessing that the 100 litre tank fits behind the rear seats in the boot? Is the 100 litre capacity the total or usable capacity?
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IIRC you lose a percentage I think 20% but im sure someone will confirm :y
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i had the largest tank you can get in the spare wheel well with an actual capacity of 41 litres(ive since fitted a 100 litre tank across the rear seats)i routed the pipe around the rear of the car behind the bumper to avoid the exhaust altogether.as a ps you can now get flexible plastic lpg pipe instead of copper,makes it a lot easier to route the pipe to the front.
Thanks for the info. I was thinking across the back was probably going to be the best option for routing the pipe.
Sounds like range is going to be very limited with a toroidal tank. Cylinder tanks are also available no problem. I will find out what tanks he supplies and see if I can dig up a list of dimensions.
Kevin
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Yep Elite Pete is right you cant get a 100 litres in a 100 litre tank
I have a 75 litre tank and it holds roughly 60 litres it does depend on when i fill it also.
If you fill it on a really cold night you can get a little more in, But if you dont drives it far and its a warm day next day the tank will Vent some of your gas as a safety feature
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COUNT ME IN!!!!!
I want to do mine myself - no point in paying people for things you can do yourself.
Paul Fielding...
Staffs.
3.0
Yes.
Yes.
Cylinder.
Most defo!!!!
next....
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I want to do mine but until I find out why it isn't running right theres no point :(
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Yup, as Kev knows, I'm definately up for gassing my car - time permitting!!
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Yep Elite Pete is right you cant get a 100 litres in a 100 litre tank
I have a 75 litre tank and it holds roughly 60 litres it does depend on when i fill it also.
If you fill it on a really cold night you can get a little more in, But if you dont drives it far and its a warm day next day the tank will Vent some of your gas as a safety feature
The lpg installer in Swindon can squeeze a 100L tank in an Omega saloon boot......thats about yer lot....width wise.....100L tank will hold 80L of LPG :y
Tho if you dont want a boot at all........bung two 100L tanks in the boot :y 160L of LPG.....that'll give a big range ;)
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Just popped out for a measure.. and found a nice list of some tank sizes here: http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/sizes.html
940mm available between rear suspension turrets so a 400x930 tank gives TDs 100L maximum.
Spare wheel area looks like it'll take up to 250mm depth and will probably take 630mm diameter, maybe more, so that's a 60l vertical tank.
Kevin
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Tank size seems to be a big issue here...
See what you think to this
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1194289732
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Tank size seems to be a big issue here...
See what you think to this
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1194289732
You can get a 100L in......it maybe different circumference to the one you have bunged in James :-/
The installers that did mine.....wanted to put a 100L tank in behind the back seats.....but i didnt want that as being an estate its useless .....so settled for a tank 1/2 the size under boot floor
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My tank was effectively free, so I'm not complaining ;)
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Yep Elite Pete is right you cant get a 100 litres in a 100 litre tank
I have a 75 litre tank and it holds roughly 60 litres it does depend on when i fill it also.
If you fill it on a really cold night you can get a little more in, But if you dont drives it far and its a warm day next day the tank will Vent some of your gas as a safety feature
The lpg installer in Swindon can squeeze a 100L tank in an Omega saloon boot......thats about yer lot....width wise.....100L tank will hold 80L of LPG :y
Tho if you dont want a boot at all........bung two 100L tanks in the boot :y 160L of LPG.....that'll give a big range ;)
DOn't fancy what will happen to the rear suspension
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Yep Elite Pete is right you cant get a 100 litres in a 100 litre tank
I have a 75 litre tank and it holds roughly 60 litres it does depend on when i fill it also.
If you fill it on a really cold night you can get a little more in, But if you dont drives it far and its a warm day next day the tank will Vent some of your gas as a safety feature
The lpg installer in Swindon can squeeze a 100L tank in an Omega saloon boot......thats about yer lot....width wise.....100L tank will hold 80L of LPG :y
Tho if you dont want a boot at all........bung two 100L tanks in the boot :y 160L of LPG.....that'll give a big range ;)
DOn't fancy what will happen to the rear suspension
Bit like throwing a kebab van on the back ;)
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Yep Elite Pete is right you cant get a 100 litres in a 100 litre tank
I have a 75 litre tank and it holds roughly 60 litres it does depend on when i fill it also.
If you fill it on a really cold night you can get a little more in, But if you dont drives it far and its a warm day next day the tank will Vent some of your gas as a safety feature
The lpg installer in Swindon can squeeze a 100L tank in an Omega saloon boot......thats about yer lot....width wise.....100L tank will hold 80L of LPG :y
Tho if you dont want a boot at all........bung two 100L tanks in the boot :y 160L of LPG.....that'll give a big range ;)
DOn't fancy what will happen to the rear suspension
Bit like throwing a kebab van on the back ;)
Thats why they have 75kg towball limits ;D
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Would be an impressive range. Full petrol tank gives 400 miles plus 800 out of the two LPG tanks?
As Martin says, I wouldn't want to try it with a car full of passengers though :o
Kevin
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Right, we have plenty of interest so I'll get back to the guy tomorrow and see what gives regarding a discount and how we can organise payment, delivery, etc.
There's quite a cluster of us in the South so I'm thinking I'll pick up those kits and distribute (possibly at an LPG party TBA).
Cheers,
Kevin
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Definately interested .. but wouldn't know where (or how) to start !! :(
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Definately interested .. but wouldn't know where (or how) to start !! :(
Well, neither would I have until I started to dig around a little. I'm hoping we will be able to get together for an LPG party somewhere, by which time a couple of us will have tackled the major issues so we'll be able to share a bit of knowledge around. Once a couple of cars have been tackled we'll know exactly where to drill the holes, route the pipes, etc. and it should be straightforward (as long as we don't all go for slightly different tank options, etc). I'm not sure we'll be able to get together and convert cars en-masse but we can certainly tackle the challengine parts of each install, make up any required bracketry in advance, etc. It remains to be seen how much time is required for each car but I'm sure there'll be plenty of advice available.
Kevin
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Just out of interest, there's a guy in Cannock breaking an Omega with LPG fitted. Cheap kit ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAXHALL-OMEGA-EST-BREAKING-FOR-SPARES_W0QQitemZ330181454961QQihZ014QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Ken
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Just out of interest, there's a guy in Cannock breaking an Omega with LPG fitted. Cheap kit ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAXHALL-OMEGA-EST-BREAKING-FOR-SPARES_W0QQitemZ330181454961QQihZ014QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Ken
New SGI kits are so cheap it's not worth messing with older stuff......
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Just out of interest, there's a guy in Cannock breaking an Omega with LPG fitted. Cheap kit ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAXHALL-OMEGA-EST-BREAKING-FOR-SPARES_W0QQitemZ330181454961QQihZ014QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Ken
New SGI kits are so cheap it's not worth messing with older stuff......
Agreed. Doesn't say what kit it's got on it. Probably a mixer though. Might be worth it for the tank but they're not huge money in comparison to the total cost anyway :-/
Kevin
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It may have been useful to me as I live 10 mins from Cannock, but it is a 2.0 :(
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It occurred to me that if we are going to have an LPG party (which hopefully will be the case :)) perhaps those interested ought to list their areas of concern / parts they do not feel that confident about so that we can do the necessary research prior to the event? I do not want to tread on anyone's toes, cause offence etc.
My concerns are as follows:
1. Fitting the injectors - specifically drilling the inlet manifold and making the necessary threads
2. The wiring of the LPG ecu and interfacing with the existing ecu
3. Fitting the LPG filler in the bodywork
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Well, I can help with drilling/tapping/mounting of fillers etc. I'm a Mechanical Design Engineer.
I'll be at the party (so long as it isn't a million miles away).
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I'm not too shabby at electronics so I have no real worries about that area. Have also played around with fuel injection systems a bit, and mapped a few of these systems so I know what makes them tick. Principles are the same for SGI.
I have done my fair share of drilling and tapping, making holes in bodywork, etc. in the past. I prefer it if it's my own bodywork, tbh, but I'm happy to loan people hole saws, taps, dies, drills, etc and stand back. ;D
A good idea to mention the areas where we have concerns and the areas where we may be able to help each other out :y
Kevin
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I think my main concern is getting the system running properly before something gets damaged.
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Kevin,
Can the supplier supply the cylinder type tanks? I am not too concerned about boot space and range on LPG is more important to me as no stations near me stock LPG :(
Your idea about the LED replacement bulbs is a good one although, as you say, a series resistor will no doubt be required.
I am defiantly up for this and look forward more information.
Well, apparently this lot do:
Shell - Pinner
Shell - Sunbury
BP - Ashford Connect
BP - Perivale S/Stn
BP - Hatton Cross Connect
BP - Heston Services Eastbound
BP - Heston Services Westbound
BP - Victoria Road Filling Station
BP - Bessborough Connect
BP - Yeading Connect
Jet - Herds Filling Station
Pace - Southall
Texaco Harlington
And for anyone else who is interested, you can find your local LPG station here (http://www.getlpg.org.uk/).
Hope this helps. :y
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Looking at this, I'd be interested in doing my 2.2. Travel not a problem but I really wouldn't know where to start with the install. I can understand that it may be impractical to do several cars in a day so what would be the options? And, where would the facilities be available to do the work?
Perhaps this would be a job better suited to the summer when there is plenty of light?
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I think my main concern is getting the system running properly before something gets damaged.
You have to try hard to damage an engine. As long as you get the mixture right under light load / idling conditions before you start giving it large it will be fine.
Most LPG installers probably don't do much more than run the self-adjustment procedure on the SGI system. This is Ok to determine the mixture at idle but they probably end up with no idea what's happening at wide open throttle and high revs as this requires a rolling road and / or a wideband Lambda sensor. The dangerous scenario is that the SGI system can't deliver enough gas and the mixture goes lean just when it needs to be quite rich to prevent knock and keep temperatures under control.
If we want to get really involved I have a wideband Lambda sensor which I would rig up to plug into an Omega. It will take some doing (just accessing the sensor is not that easy on a V6) but I'm sure we can do just as good a job setting it up as a "professional" would. In any case, we need to get the systems commissioned / certified so we could entrust the setting-up to whoever does that.
Kevin
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Looking at this, I'd be interested in doing my 2.2. Travel not a problem but I really wouldn't know where to start with the install. I can understand that it may be impractical to do several cars in a day so what would be the options? And, where would the facilities be available to do the work?
Perhaps this would be a job better suited to the summer when there is plenty of light?
Don't you dare suggest I do it while on holiday ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Looking at this, I'd be interested in doing my 2.2. Travel not a problem but I really wouldn't know where to start with the install. I can understand that it may be impractical to do several cars in a day so what would be the options? And, where would the facilities be available to do the work?
Perhaps this would be a job better suited to the summer when there is plenty of light?
Don't you dare suggest I do it while on holiday ;D ;D ;D ;D
Now, there's a thought. ::) ::) ::)
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So what's the word on the street? Is this a goer?
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Kevin,
Can the supplier supply the cylinder type tanks? I am not too concerned about boot space and range on LPG is more important to me as no stations near me stock LPG :(
Your idea about the LED replacement bulbs is a good one although, as you say, a series resistor will no doubt be required.
I am defiantly up for this and look forward more information.
Well, apparently this lot do:
Shell - Pinner
Shell - Sunbury
BP - Ashford Connect
BP - Perivale S/Stn
BP - Hatton Cross Connect
BP - Heston Services Eastbound
BP - Heston Services Westbound
BP - Victoria Road Filling Station
BP - Bessborough Connect
BP - Yeading Connect
Jet - Herds Filling Station
Pace - Southall
Texaco Harlington
And for anyone else who is interested, you can find your local LPG station here (http://www.getlpg.org.uk/).
Hope this helps. :y
Cheers for the list ;) I know that the BP Yeading connect do LPG but they are expensive compared to other stations. I will use my usual filling point in Watford. I still think a long range tank is better as I hate having to keep worrying about filling up.
That link is very useful though - particularly when travelling to another area.
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So what's the word on the street? Is this a goer?
Hopefully in the not too distant future, it will be a goer!
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best place to start is by getting hold of an inlet manifold and get it drilled/tapped for the nozzels
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ok...WANTED - Inlet Manifold for 3.0 ;) PM me.
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best place to start is by getting hold of an inlet manifold and get it drilled/tapped for the nozzels
Good idea. Does anyone know:
a. the size of hole to be drilled
b. the size of thread required
c. where is best to place said holes on the manifold - near to the injectors I guess?
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a 5.1mm
b m6
c i put mine right next to the original injectors pointing to the same spot on the inlet valve( it can be done!!)
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I think my main concern is getting the system running properly before something gets damaged.
You have to try hard to damageThis is Ok to determine the mixture at idle but they probably end up with no idea what's happening at wide open throttle and high revs as this requires a rolling road an engine. As long as you get the mixture right under light load / idling conditions before you start giving it large it will be fine.
Most LPG installers probably don't do much more than run the self-adjustment procedure on the SGI system. and / or a wideband Lambda sensor. The dangerous scenario is that the SGI system can't deliver enough gas and the mixture goes lean just when it needs to be quite rich to prevent knock and keep temperatures under control.
If we want to get really involved I have a wideband Lambda sensor which I would rig up to plug into an Omega. It will take some doing (just accessing the sensor is not that easy on a V6) but I'm sure we can do just as good a job setting it up as a "professional" would. In any case, we need to get the systems commissioned / certified so we could entrust the setting-up to whoever does that.
Kevin
Once they have got the mixture at idle correct......most places (i know my local installer does) will take the car for a spin with laptop sitting on passenger seat so they can see whats happening over different throttle positions. Something you could consider doing :y
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Looking at this, I'd be interested in doing my 2.2. Travel not a problem but I really wouldn't know where to start with the install. I can understand that it may be impractical to do several cars in a day so what would be the options? And, where would the facilities be available to do the work?
Perhaps this would be a job better suited to the summer when there is plenty of light?
Dont forget there is a slight power loss.....A 2.2 on lpg towing a caravan might struggle a bit......altho I guess you could switch to petrol if it was too much of a problem, and just use the lpg for cruising or when caravanless.
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Once they have got the mixture at idle correct......most places (i know my local installer does) will take the car for a spin with laptop sitting on passenger seat so they can see whats happening over different throttle positions. Something you could consider doing
True, but you haven't got anything to measure the mixture. A narrow band lambda sensor will tell you if you're rich or lean of a stoichiometric mixture (14.7:1 on petrol) but you want a richer mixture than this at full load (around 12.8-13:1 on petrol). All they can do is watch the Lambda sensor output and make sure it indicates "rich" on hard acceleration.
Kevin
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a 5.1mm
b m6
c i put mine right next to the original injectors pointing to the same spot on the inlet valve( it can be done!!)
Thanks for that - if I get the time I may pop along to the scrap yard this weekend and see if I can get a manifold to practise with if nothing else!
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best place to start is by getting hold of an inlet manifold and get it drilled/tapped for the nozzels
Good idea. Does anyone know:
a. the size of hole to be drilled
b. the size of thread required
c. where is best to place said holes on the manifold - near to the injectors I guess?
Here is a photo from Gas Car Co showing inlet manifold. They have converted several Omegas, and have a good selection of pics
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lapbits/aaq.jpg)
http://www.gascarco.com/gallery/album38/aaq
Ken
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a 5.1mm
b m6
c i put mine right next to the original injectors pointing to the same spot on the inlet valve( it can be done!!)
Thanks for that - if I get the time I may pop along to the scrap yard this weekend and see if I can get a manifold to practise with if nothing else!
Strictly speaking, the drill should be a 5.0mm for an M6x1 thread.
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Once they have got the mixture at idle correct......most places (i know my local installer does) will take the car for a spin with laptop sitting on passenger seat so they can see whats happening over different throttle positions. Something you could consider doing
True, but you haven't got anything to measure the mixture. A narrow band lambda sensor will tell you if you're rich or lean of a stoichiometric mixture (14.7:1 on petrol) but you want a richer mixture than this at full load (around 12.8-13:1 on petrol). All they can do is watch the Lambda sensor output and make sure it indicates "rich" on hard acceleration.
Kevin
Sorry, dont know what they look at......just seen the laptop showing various graphs.... :-/
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I have just spoken to a bloke called Andrew who supplies and fits LPG kits for a living and he says he could supply and fit a 4 pot with the same kit as the one listed on here for £1000, thats with a 2 year guarantee and certification, the 6 pots would be £1100. He is based in Cardiff and says his team do one a day but might be able to do two and he says he would train someone to use the set up kit.
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That is interesting. Makes it look like it's hardly worth the bother of fitting it yourself. Once you've bought the kit and paid for someone to certify it.... :-/
But then the main attraction of doing it myself is that I know it's been done well. I'm not happy to let people hack holes in the bodyshell, etc. because I know they will scrimp on rustproofing them. Had it before when I've had towbars fitted.
Kevin
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Hi did suggest having one done (ie mine) at £1150 and if everyone was happy have the rest done :y
I know what you are saying but buying the kit and certification would cost almost £800 then theres the fitting a good couple of weekends, skinned knuckles ect all to save £300. I like the idea of the two year guarantee and I intend to stand and watch the fitting :y
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This is his ebay auction
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330185369765&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014
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It's very tempting. Much as I would like to do the job myself, in some ways, looking at it like like that it doesn't make a lot of sense. :-/
Kevin
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I've just had a look at the auction and would agree with Kevin that in many ways it does not make sense to DIY.
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Hi did suggest having one done (ie mine) at £1150 and if everyone was happy have the rest done :y
I know what you are saying but buying the kit and certification would cost almost £800 then theres the fitting a good couple of weekends, skinned knuckles ect all to save £300. I like the idea of the two year guarantee and I intend to stand and watch the fitting :y
Are you going ahead with this then? I will be most interested to hear how you get on.
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Hi did suggest having one done (ie mine) at £1150 and if everyone was happy have the rest done :y
I know what you are saying but buying the kit and certification would cost almost £800 then theres the fitting a good couple of weekends, skinned knuckles ect all to save £300. I like the idea of the two year guarantee and I intend to stand and watch the fitting :y
Are you going ahead with this then? I will be most interested to hear how you get on.
I will be, but I need to get my car running properly first :y
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Good luck with that - nothing too serious is the matter I hope!
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Good luck with that - nothing too serious is the matter I hope!
Haven't you seen it then. Take a look CLICK (http://www.exchangeandmart.co.uk/iad/motors/cars_for_sale/vauxhall/omega/object?emcode=8623309&sid=xz3c7pzEyo0471767). :o
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Good luck with that - nothing too serious is the matter I hope!
Nothing to bad just down on power, slight miss fire around 3000rpm and using loads of petrol :'(
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Certification less than £50 with bernard
Do it in a day? Only if you rush...
I'd rather take my time, we also have the added advantage of extensive Omega knowledge
Plus - I could buy a lot of gas for £300 ! ;D
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Certification less than £50 with bernard
Do it in a day? Only if you rush...
I'd rather take my time, we also have the added advantage of extensive Omega knowledge
Plus - I could buy a lot of gas for £300 ! ;D
I agree but I could earn a lot of money over a couple of weekends ;)
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Certification less than £50 with bernard
Do it in a day? Only if you rush...
I'd rather take my time, we also have the added advantage of extensive Omega knowledge
Plus - I could buy a lot of gas for £300 ! ;D
I agree but I could earn a lot of money over a couple of weekends ;)
That's a fair comment - but I don't work 7 days a week, and on my days off I like engine therapy, so everyone's a winner in my situation :y
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Ive just spoken to my local LPG supplier and its 40p a LTR. Time to get it converted I think :y
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Where have you spoken to Pete?
Think there is an installer between Saltney & Broughton (at Bretton)
May be worth speaking to him.
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Ive just spoken to my local LPG supplier and its 40p a LTR. Time to get it converted I think
OK. this is the other thing that has been confusing me. LPG around my way is 55p per litre or more at the couple of places I am aware of who do it. Still better than nothing but 40p will make a conversion pay back much more quickly. Who sells LPG for 40p?
Kevin
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In Watford the Normal petrol stations sell it for 44 p a litre and up in my home town in the north east is 39p a litre or was last time i was home
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Ive just spoken to my local LPG supplier and its 40p a LTR. Time to get it converted I think
OK. this is the other thing that has been confusing me. LPG around my way is 55p per litre or more at the couple of places I am aware of who do it. Still better than nothing but 40p will make a conversion pay back much more quickly. Who sells LPG for 40p?
Kevin
Between 39p and 45p everywhere I go... except Brackley >:(
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Ive just spoken to my local LPG supplier and its 40p a LTR. Time to get it converted I think
OK. this is the other thing that has been confusing me. LPG around my way is 55p per litre or more at the couple of places I am aware of who do it. Still better than nothing but 40p will make a conversion pay back much more quickly. Who sells LPG for 40p?
Kevin
Its a place local to me called Harris Gas. They normally charge 44p but if you pay them £100 up front you get it for 40p and you go and fill up until your £100 has run out. Then start again :y
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I have worked out why their kit is cheap - they buy it from Poland
New OMVL kit in Poland is cheaper than refurbished OMVL kit in the UK.
Good luck to them
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The LPG Omega I had was an Estate which had a small tordial tank in the spare wheel well. Is it possible to have the small tank in the wheel well and a removable cylinder tank behind the seats?
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Between 39p and 45p everywhere I go... except Brackley
I'll have another look, but pretty sure I'm going to be sh@fted round here.
Is it possible to have the small tank in the wheel well and a removable cylinder tank behind the seats?
I don't think there's any provision for a tank to be removable in the LPGA regs. You can have 2 tanks with valves to ensure they don't crossfeed but It looks like no one's crossed that particular bridge yet.
Incidentally, can you remember how much capacity you had in you spare wheel tank and what range it got you?
Cheers,
Kevin
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Between 39p and 45p everywhere I go... except Brackley
I'll have another look, but pretty sure I'm going to be sh@fted round here.
Is it possible to have the small tank in the wheel well and a removable cylinder tank behind the seats?
I don't think there's any provision for a tank to be removable in the LPGA regs. You can have 2 tanks with valves to ensure they don't crossfeed but It looks like no one's crossed that particular bridge yet.
Incidentally, can you remember how much capacity you had in you spare wheel tank and what range it got you?
Cheers,
Kevin
Hi Kevin
It was quite a while ago but I think it was a 50ltr tank and I got about 38ltrs in the tank which gave me approx 250miles in a 2.5 V6 Manual. But ive slept since then so I could be wrong. Oh yeah it was a single point system as well :y
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I have just spoken to a bloke called Andrew who supplies and fits LPG kits for a living and he says he could supply and fit a 4 pot with the same kit as the one listed on here for £1000, thats with a 2 year guarantee and certification, the 6 pots would be £1100. He is based in Cardiff and says his team do one a day but might be able to do two and he says he would train someone to use the set up kit.
Hi did suggest having one done (ie mine) at £1150 and if everyone was happy have the rest done
EP .. I'm very interested in this ( as I do NOT have JamesV6CDX's technical expertise !!) but don't see why your "trial" install is MORE expensive than a normal one ??? :-/
If forum members will get a "special" and he's doing yours to encourage more .. it should be cheaper.. or am I mising something ??
:(
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I think he is doing that just incase I am trying it on with the " I have a few mates that might be interested" line. So he said first one is £1150 everyone after is £1100. Oh and thats the V6 the 4 pot is £1000 :y
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Ive just spoken to my local LPG supplier and its 40p a LTR. Time to get it converted I think
OK. this is the other thing that has been confusing me. LPG around my way is 55p per litre or more at the couple of places I am aware of who do it. Still better than nothing but 40p will make a conversion pay back much more quickly. Who sells LPG for 40p?
Kevin
I just did a search for the nearest countrywide store selling LPG to you, Kevin
It came up with a place called Liphook GU30 7DR.....about 10 miles away.....i get lpg from them for 43ppl on account.....but their price varies.....so have a word if interested.....i pay 43ppl no matter where i fill up at countrywide sites.....but i know they do charge different amounts on different accounts ::)
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Can someone who knows more than me ... (form an orderly queue !!) check these maths .......
Presently I average 25 mpg over all types of driving, When towing the shed its around 18-20mpg... research says (?) a 15% loss of performance using LPG, so I should get around 20mpg on LPG, 15mpg when towing, and using 4.54 ltrs = 1 gall
Type cost/ltr cost/gal p/mile
LPG .43p £1.9522 9.761p @20mpg
Petrol £1.00 £4.54 18.16 @25mpg
saving = 8.399p/mile.... conversion @ £1100 would take 13096 miles to recover costs
LPG .45p £2.043 10.215p @20mpg
Petrol £1.05 £4.767 19.068p @25mpg
saving= 8.853p/mile .... conversion @£1100 would take 12425 miles to recover costs
When towing
LPG .45 £2.043 13.62p @ 15mpg
Petrol £1.05 £4.767 23.835 @ 20mpg
saving = 10.215p/mile so when towing the savings are 15% higher !!!!
As I do around 12000 miles a year it pays for itself in about 12-13 months. I will probably keep the car for at least another 5 years.
Any one see any major flaws ?? Greatly appreciate any comments
Regards
Entwood
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No mate your about spot on, I did a similar excercise on the back of a fag packet today, (actually it was a Golden Viginia pouch).
I spend about £30 per week on fuel at £1.00 per litre so 35 litres of LPG per week at 45p per litre is £15.75. If the cost of the conversion is £1000 then payback is 70 weeks. If I do it myself, and it costs £600, payback is 42 weeks. And, there are weeks when I spend much more than £30 so I reckon that the real payback would be closer to 6 months.
I am planning on doing this early in the new year. I have a genius at work who has spanners for fingers and his ears double as an ammeter so I am feeling quite confident that this can be done. :y
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i worked out that i have saved over 15000 miles in the year about 1140 quid running on LPG working out my car does about 30 mpg on petrol mixed driving.
15000 / by 30 = 500 gallons used
500 * 4.55 = 2275 litres used
2275 litres = at todays prices about £2275
LPG is less than half but you used more MPG so roughly just half 2275 = 1140 ish saved
I wonder how wrong i am lol
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Thanks for those views ....makes me even more interested in EP's contact ... unless anyone knows problems with that install ??
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Thanks for those views ....makes me even more interested in EP's contact ... unless anyone knows problems with that install ??
I'll soon let you know, my kit should arrive today...
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Thanks for those views ....makes me even more interested in EP's contact ... unless anyone knows problems with that install ??
I'll soon let you know, my kit should arrive today...
Has it arrived yet??? Has it arrived yet???
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Thanks for those views ....makes me even more interested in EP's contact ... unless anyone knows problems with that install ??
I'll soon let you know, my kit should arrive today...
Has it arrived yet??? Has it arrived yet???
Er, no, but your you know what has ;)
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Ohhh yessss...cheers buddy.
Has the LPG kit arrived now???? How about now then?
Now??????
Is it there yet???????????? ;D
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Certification less than £50 with bernard
Do it in a day? Only if you rush...
I'd rather take my time, we also have the added advantage of extensive Omega knowledge
Plus - I could buy a lot of gas for £300 ! ;D
I agree but I could earn a lot of money over a couple of weekends ;)
That's a fair comment - but I don't work 7 days a week, and on my days off I like engine therapy, so everyone's a winner in my situation :y
Feel free to fit on in my car then....
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Certification less than £50 with bernard
Do it in a day? Only if you rush...
I'd rather take my time, we also have the added advantage of extensive Omega knowledge
Plus - I could buy a lot of gas for £300 ! ;D
So ... when you've got yours working ... how much will you be charging to fit ?? :) If you can beat £1100 all in I'll be first in the queue !!! (or will EP become our resident LPG conversion "booking agent" .. :)
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£1099.00 it is then ;) ;D
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"Book me Danno" ....and I'll even give you a .99p tip :)
(but I am also serious ... would/will you be offering to do this ?? :) )
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"Book me Danno" ....and I'll even give you a .99p tip :)
(but I am also serious ... would/will you be offering to do this ?? :) )
I'll see how my own goes first ;)
I'm considering going on a course....
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Well I'm serious about this .. its either you if you want the job .. or EP's contact ...if EP goes ahead ....
I'll sit back and wait until you feel ready to make a decision .. :)
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the installer in Plymouth charges £1200 and keeps the car for 4 days, i was weighing up the pros and cons, the kit was £705 and even if i had to pay £100 i am still £400 up and that is for a total of 5 days work......
To me it was a no brainer, but then i also understand that time with family or getting extra work in is important to others.
I would say in a rush a kit could be fitted in 3 days, but that would be going some and i could imagine there would be corners cut or things maybe not done as well as they could have been
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the installer in Plymouth charges £1200 and keeps the car for 4 days, i was weighing up the pros and cons, the kit was £705 and even if i had to pay £100 i am still £400 up and that is for a total of 5 days work......
To me it was a no brainer, but then i also understand that time with family or getting extra work in is important to others.
I would say in a rush a kit could be fitted in 3 days, but that would be going some and i could imagine there would be corners cut or things maybe not done as well as they could have been
With the exception of the tank, I plan to do it over one weekend, cambelt permitting!
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the installer in Plymouth charges £1200 and keeps the car for 4 days, i was weighing up the pros and cons, the kit was £705 and even if i had to pay £100 i am still £400 up and that is for a total of 5 days work......
To me it was a no brainer, but then i also understand that time with family or getting extra work in is important to others.
I would say in a rush a kit could be fitted in 3 days, but that would be going some and i could imagine there would be corners cut or things maybe not done as well as they could have been
What took all the time then Jay? I was hoping that it could all be done in a weekend. The guys in S Wales reckon that they can do it in a day.
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the installer in Plymouth charges £1200 and keeps the car for 4 days, i was weighing up the pros and cons, the kit was £705 and even if i had to pay £100 i am still £400 up and that is for a total of 5 days work......
To me it was a no brainer, but then i also understand that time with family or getting extra work in is important to others.
I would say in a rush a kit could be fitted in 3 days, but that would be going some and i could imagine there would be corners cut or things maybe not done as well as they could have been
What took all the time then Jay? I was hoping that it could all be done in a weekend. The guys in S Wales reckon that they can do it in a day.
Markie and I Recon one (long) summers day would see it done. This time of year, prob closer to two, unless you can work inside.
It's worth taking your time over your first install.
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Well I'm serious about this .. its either you if you want the job .. or EP's contact ...if EP goes ahead ....
I'll sit back and wait until you feel ready to make a decision .. :)
I want to get mine done before Christmas but it depends on how much time off the DIY I get from the wife ::)
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are you going for the tradition tank, or the spare well well and a false floor?
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I will go for the spare wheel well tank :y
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Will be very interested to see the results from this :y
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Will be very interested to see the results from this :y
The same as per the one (still) sat on my drive.....no need for a false floor unless you go for a big tank.
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Will be very interested to see the results from this :y
The same as per the one (still) sat on my drive.....no need for a false floor unless you go for a big tank.
Haven't you sold that thing yet? :o
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Mrs DTM must be furious by now!
Anything left to do on it?
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Mrs DTM must be furious by now!
Anything left to do on it?
A good clean (its already had one so wont take much) and a large firework up the bum of the person whos going to be selling it!
Yes, Mrs DTM is far from pleased......
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Get it in the for sale section, someone will want that!
How much you starting it at?