Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Wayne on 28 February 2009, 18:02:56

Title: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 28 February 2009, 18:02:56
long time no chat guys, hope your all doing well  :)

my Omegas been running great the last 12 months, should do with all the dosh i spent on it!  >:(

i only use my car 2 days a week, last night drove from Oxford to Cannock in Staffordshire to do a gig with my band.... car drove lovely and started perfectly...
got up this morning and turned the key and it wont start, the battery is fine, so is the starter motor and alternator, all these things are new on it anyway...
called Recovery company out, they looked and said that all of the above is fine on it.......  they "think" it could be the crank sensor, though NOT 100% sure without running diagnostic equipment on it....
does that sound right to you? if you turn the key it does try to start but just dont want to turn over, there isnt a spark according to the green flag bloke....  i dont know why its suddenly started to play up all of a sudden....  is there a way of finding out exactly what it is WITHOUT running up a huge bill ?
obviously it wont start so i cant drive it anywhere.... anyone near me with one of them sooper dooper diagnostic computer thingys  ;)

i cant do anything without my car, Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: philhoward on 28 February 2009, 18:08:34
If its a 2.0, 2.5 or 3.0, then the super dooper diagnostic device needed is a paperclip....

Crank sensor is always a favourite though.  If the EML light flashes when you try and start it its the immobiliser.
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 28 February 2009, 18:15:25
sorry Phil, what does the EML look like on the dash, im a bit dumb so need help, lol

my car is an S Reg 1998  Omega 2.5V6 Estate
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: RobG on 28 February 2009, 18:20:38
Look here. http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189022687 :y
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: philhoward on 28 February 2009, 18:22:05
Quote
sorry Phil, what does the EML look like on the dash,
Orange one with a picture of an engine in it..
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Elite Pete on 28 February 2009, 18:27:02
Do the paperclip test and post the results up ;)
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 28 February 2009, 18:30:13
okay, will do the paperclip thingy in the morning, the EML doesnt flash so it cant be that then..
is a crank sensor expensive anyway? and can it be done by mr totally useless with cars like me?  i hear its at the back of the engine? thats me out straight away then!


Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: RobG on 28 February 2009, 18:32:13
£50 - £70 on TC. and it`s do-able in under an hour :y
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 28 February 2009, 18:47:08
what number on the fault codes list is the crank sensor exactly?
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: tunnie on 28 February 2009, 18:49:40
19
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 28 February 2009, 18:53:21
thats incorrect RPM Signal ? code number 19 ?
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: tunnie on 28 February 2009, 18:55:26
yes, thats crank sensor fault.
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: TheBoy on 28 February 2009, 19:08:53
19 - knackered crank sensor
31 - non conclusive if car won't start
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: bigdods on 28 February 2009, 20:31:18
You may get other codes as well, when the crank sensor is failing other things tend to get upset. I cant recall the codes but I got several others along with the 19 when mine failed . They all disappeared once the new crank sensor was fitted.
Title: Re: oh no, my car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 01 March 2009, 16:40:02
Just done the paperclip test chaps

the only code i got flashing up was firstly number 12 and then followed by number 31

does that mean im screwed?
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: bluespurr on 01 March 2009, 18:25:03
hi i'm new to this but i'm wondering if the paperclip job will help me i have changed the rocker covers today and now it wont start i get a knocking noise from number 4 cylinder. The eml light doesn't flash and i don't really want to strip it back down again lol
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: b16 b3n on 01 March 2009, 18:31:27
Quote
hi i'm new to this but i'm wondering if the paperclip job will help me i have changed the rocker covers today and now it wont start i get a knocking noise from number 4 cylinder. The eml light doesn't flash and i don't really want to strip it back down again lol



 :o a knocking noise? im intreeged. Let me know if youve found it, my mates got exactly th same problem and even i cant figure it out. Im striiping his back down tomorrow at work and see if hes done everything  correctly. :y
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: bluespurr on 01 March 2009, 18:38:34
i'll let you know i think the only thing it can be is it could be the codes been lost in the ecu as i disconnected it. But i just cant work it out it wont even idle it just splutters and knocks and thats about it do you know if the ecu losses the codes?
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: philhoward on 01 March 2009, 18:45:26
bluespurr - it's very bad etiquette jumping on the back of someone else post...mods/admins?

Wayne - sorry I can't help here as i'm not a V6 owner (yet...)
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: slb on 01 March 2009, 18:46:18
how many times have you tryed to start it again :question
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: bluespurr on 01 March 2009, 19:01:07
quite a few but no luck, even tried bumping it
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: slb on 01 March 2009, 19:19:05
are the fuel pipes on ok and the injecters conected up at the back :question
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 01 March 2009, 19:33:21
is this an answer to my question... or somebody elses?


Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: TheBoy on 01 March 2009, 20:21:09
Wayne - have you got fuel at the fuel rail?
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 01 March 2009, 22:02:15
Hi mate

fuel at fuel rail?  dont know what that means, you know what im like, lol


Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 01 March 2009, 22:04:15
i take it that the error code 31 is the crank sensor, and it needs replacing then chaps?

Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: TheBoy on 01 March 2009, 22:08:12
Quote
i take it that the error code 31 is the crank sensor, and it needs replacing then chaps?

31 on a non running engine is non conclusive.
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 01 March 2009, 22:17:30
what does that mean mate?
it could be ANYTHING?
so i could be sat with a car that wont ever start again?

how much will that cost to fix, or is that a "how long is a piece of string question"  
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: TheBoy on 01 March 2009, 22:28:36
Quote
what does that mean mate?
it could be ANYTHING?
so i could be sat with a car that wont ever start again?

how much will that cost to fix, or is that a "how long is a piece of string question"  
It could well be the crank sensor, but we can't prove it.  But then it could also be a number of other things, including fuel pump/relay etc
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: philhoward on 01 March 2009, 22:29:39
Start from the top, Wayne - an engine needs 3 things to run - compression, fuel and a spark.

If the engine sounds fine turning over, then thats one ticked off.

Next question - do you have fuel at the fuel rail (slacken the unions off gently and it should come squirting out).
Third - spark.  Test the old fashioned way for now (old spark plug against something metallic and see if you have a spark.

From the last 2 tests, it at least gives a clue where to look..
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 01 March 2009, 22:38:03
the Green Flag bloke said there wasnt any spark, and he diagnosed crank sensor..... but he wasnt 100% sure like i said earlier in this post

why oh why -  cars been running great up until now


Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 01 March 2009, 22:41:13
got my mechanic friends mate coming round Tuesday, he`s an Auto Electrician bloke, got all the computer stuff in the back of his van...
hopefullly he can find out what the prob is,  said he only charging me £20 call out

none of you know me on here, but i really am CRAP with Cars  :-[
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Chris_H on 01 March 2009, 23:03:08
Quote
...but i really am CRAP with Cars...

Looks like you could be out of the woods but...

If you should do the fuel rail thing then the sparky test I suggest you leave a respectable time gap in a well-ventilated area between those two experiments!
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 02 March 2009, 17:36:11
Ouch    :'(

my cars being fixed this Thursday
total bill will be £154
its definitely the crank sensor,
the auto mechanic confirmed this with his fancy gadgetry
the above bill is for the callout, the new part and the labour to do it


oh well.... S**t happens
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: ians on 02 March 2009, 18:19:46
Remember this is a 25 grand car that is eleven years old.  You can't expect it to be fault free,  or the repairs to cost tuppence.. ;)

Hope its sorted anyway :y
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 02 March 2009, 18:39:19
i know mate, just remembering when i bought it, what a great day that was... now the thing has a bit of rust, the drivers side rear passenger door has its trim coming away for the 2nd time in a year!
spent a fortune on this car because i couldnt afford to buy another car.... and now its probably worth next to nothing...

i may have to get a brand new BMW from my stepdads work, though its a scheme where every 9 months you get a new car, so its never really yours....  starting costs are about £250 a month i think
but with that, at least everything is taken care of, tax, servicing, insurance etc

got some deciding to do
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: blue_dream on 02 March 2009, 20:45:02
Hi
   Code 12, just the start of the test leave this, but code 31 i believe is the mass air flow sencer, voltage to high,( please correct me guys)
  I believe i had this code, car would turn over, popping through exhurst but not fire, I change crank sencer 10 minutes, use a piece of string to do this which i first thought was the problem no good, contacted the form, was told to disconnect the main air flow sencer connection, the one on the side, then start the car, if it runs ok turn off then reconnect if the problem exist, theirs your problem, i stole my air flow meter of my dads car to confirm as well, i've been using his for the past two weeks, i had a phone call today WHERES MY AIR FLOW SENCER!!, has anyone got one spare  :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: TheBoy on 02 March 2009, 21:58:54
Quote
Hi
   Code 12, just the start of the test leave this, but code 31 i believe is the mass air flow sencer, voltage to high,( please correct me guys)
  I believe i had this code, car would turn over, popping through exhurst but not fire, I change crank sencer 10 minutes, use a piece of string to do this which i first thought was the problem no good, contacted the form, was told to disconnect the main air flow sencer connection, the one on the side, then start the car, if it runs ok turn off then reconnect if the problem exist, theirs your problem, i stole my air flow meter of my dads car to confirm as well, i've been using his for the past two weeks, i had a phone call today WHERES MY AIR FLOW SENCER!!, has anyone got one spare  :-[ :-[ :-[
31 is not MAF. MAF is 73/74.  31 is no RPM signal
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Welung666 on 02 March 2009, 21:59:12
31 = no RPM signal (I.E. not runnng) :y
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: TheBoy on 02 March 2009, 22:01:53
Quote
i know mate, just remembering when i bought it, what a great day that was... now the thing has a bit of rust, the drivers side rear passenger door has its trim coming away for the 2nd time in a year!
spent a fortune on this car because i couldnt afford to buy another car.... and now its probably worth next to nothing...

i may have to get a brand new BMW from my stepdads work, though its a scheme where every 9 months you get a new car, so its never really yours....  starting costs are about £250 a month i think
but with that, at least everything is taken care of, tax, servicing, insurance etc

got some deciding to do
If thats for a proper BMW, probably not too bad. If its for Mini (I guess it is, seeing as they are round the corner).

When Mrs TheBoy worked at Cowley (initially in Austen Rover, then laterly Rover days), we had the those schemes. Used to be around £150 though for R7 type 200s, 400s, then Focus (piece of shit) once Ford took over parts of the company.
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 08 March 2009, 23:23:08
cars been fixed, had new crank sensor fitted, took the mobile mechanic bloke 35 minutes......£174 !!!!  Grrrrrr
he did me a favour and moved the new crank sensor to somewhere more accessible (as advised by The Boy...thanks mate)

now starts first time everytime! lol

am i getting the placebo effect, or would my car perform better now?
it seems a bit nippier and a bit pokier.... or am i imagining it?


Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Elite Pete on 08 March 2009, 23:39:49
Quote
cars been fixed, had new crank sensor fitted, took the mobile mechanic bloke 35 minutes...... £174 !!!!  Grrrrrr
he did me a favour and moved the new crank sensor to somewhere more accessible (as advised by The Boy...thanks mate)

now starts first time everytime! lol

am i getting the placebo effect, or would my car perform better now?
it seems a bit nippier and a bit pokier.... or am i imagining it?


:o £50 for the part and £124 for fitting :'(
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Wayne on 08 March 2009, 23:42:19
in the end, it was a standard £40 call out, £78 for the part and £56 for fitting it....  :'(
i saw the receipts for the part, so he didnt do me, or maybe they did him   ;D


oh.....and Pete,  would a new part give me an improvement in "nippiness" ??    lol
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: tmx on 08 March 2009, 23:58:39
Quote
Ouch    :'(

my cars being fixed this Thursday
total bill will be £154
its definitely the crank sensor,
the auto mechanic confirmed this with his fancy gadgetry
the above bill is for the callout, the new part and the labour to do it


oh well.... S**t happens

£150 pheww a genuine VX sensor is £50! £100 to sit under a car for five mins im in the wrong job!

yes rerouting the sensor should solve the problem of the sensor failing usually the get damaged by the exhaust manifold

Yes the sensor will improve things with the cars general running it is one of the most important sensors in the engine so if its giving dud info performance will be affected
Title: Re: oh no! my damn car wont start, advice needed chaps
Post by: Tawfield on 09 March 2009, 00:29:29
Thanks for the feed back Wayne,was goiing to buy a crankshaft sensor just in case,and was given the price for two differant parts £70 something for one £50 for the second,was told that to ensure I get the right one remove the one fitted, waiting for my nipper to to check it out for me.