Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Proz on 21 October 2008, 20:00:48
-
Hi all ... had my engine light come on today and its reading P0420 Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold ....does this mean the cats gone . They said they replaced it before i bought it 5 months ago :-/
-
If you had 1000 more cc's I'd know the answer .. 'tis a common fault on the 3.2's ... but the 2.2 I believe is totally different ...
Hopefully someone who knows will enlighten us soon .. :y :y :y
-
Does the 2.2 have the same pre-cat arrangement and 2 lambdas; one before the pre-cat and one after?
Perhaps the code is related to the same issue, but it can only have it on the one "side" as it were?
-
Im a mechanical novice so i dont know how many and where anything is really :-[
-
It said the above code " bank 1 " if that makes any difference .
-
Sounds like the problem that Kevin is describing in his recent post on the Technical Info section.
www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1223977027
-
Sounds like the problem that Kevin is describing in his recent post on the Technical Info section.
www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1223977027
Thanks ...i'll have a wee look :y
-
Im a mechanical novice so i dont know how many and where anything is really :-[
Sorry the question was really aimed at the forum members generally. If the answer to my question above is yes, then I think I may have an explanation and a solution, but t is a bit of an undertaking.
If the answer is no, then I've nothing of much value to add as a novice myself.
-
Does the 2.2 have the same pre-cat arrangement and 2 lambdas; one before the pre-cat and one after?
Perhaps the code is related to the same issue, but it can only have it on the one "side" as it were?
yes exactly the same :y
-
Looks like the answr is "yes".
And Kevins Wood explains it incredibly well.
I have found and implemented a solution on my 3.2, but the principle is identical for your car. The latter part of this thread explains what I have done.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1214690650
I did this on a new stainless cat-back exhaust, but a new lambda boss could be added into a standard exhaust if you wanted to.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/2915893351_a12d3f44b9.jpg)
-
Does this mean that one of the lambdas is possibly acting up .... or is there something more going on here.... :-[
-
take your car out and give it a damn good thrashing bud should clear it !! :y :y
-
take your car out and give it a darn good thrashing bud should clear it !! :y :y
I like the sound of that ;D ;D :y
-
Does this mean that one of the lambdas is possibly acting up .... or is there something more going on here.... :-[
Kevin Woods words
"Another issue which is often grouped with fuel trim, although not necessarily related is the appearance of "cat efficiency" (0420 and 0430) codes on the newer Omegas with 2.2, 2.6 and 3.2 engines. Everything we have discussed above regarding fuel trim relates to the front "pre-cat" Lambda sensors. These engines have a second set of Lambda sensors after a small "pre-cat" in the exhaust elbow.
The only purpose of these "post-cat" Lambda sensors is to determine if the pre-cats are working effectively and to light the emissions light if there is a problem. They are not involved in fuel trim at all - for a very good reason. "
In simple terms your lambda sensors are fine. The 1st (pre) cat is a little tired when cold and the 2nd lambda sensor thinks that the air hasn't been "cleaned" enough in going through that 1st cat.
You can resolve the issue by "tricking" the 2nd lambda sensor and moving behind both cats. The air is then "cleaned" twice by both cats before getting as far as the 2nd sensor and the 2nd lambda sensor is "happy" and you lose the EML warning.
-
take your car out and give it a darn good thrashing bud should clear it !! :y :y
I like the sound of that ;D ;D :y
A lot has to be said of that, usually its diesels really, as they clog up with the clouds of smoke some of the older ones make. A damn good trashing does them good, maybe try a tank full of BP Ultimate and give it damn good spanking on the whole tank, and see if that clears it.
Have you replaced the plugs recently? got any oil in the cylinders? I did that ::)
Had clouds of blue smoke for about 30 seconds! ;D
-
take your car out and give it a darn good thrashing bud should clear it !! :y :y
I like the sound of that ;D ;D :y
A lot has to be said of that, usually its diesels really, as they clog up with the clouds of smoke some of the older ones make. A darn good trashing does them good, maybe try a tank full of BP Ultimate and give it darn good spanking on the whole tank, and see if that clears it.
Have you replaced the plugs recently? got any oil in the cylinders? I did that ::)
Had clouds of blue smoke for about 30 seconds! ;D
It had a service at Vx maybe 5-6 weeks ago but they never mentioned oil in plug wells .... as for fuel would Tesco premium stuff be just as good , there are no BP's for miles around here .... i must admit ive never really given this car a thrashing ...was trying to be gentle with it after my last mig died probly through lack of attention :-[
-
Freeze frame data is
TROUB CODE P0420
FUEL SYS1 CL, using H02S
FUEL SYS2 N/A
CALC LOAD (%) 67
COOLANT (F) 183
ST FTRM1 (%) 2.3
LT FTRM1 (%) 11.7
ENGINE SPEED 2041 RPM
VEH SPEED 49 MPH
I/M status
Misfire monitor ok
Fuel system mon ok
Comp. Component ok
Catalyst mon ok
Evap system mon ok
Oxygen Sens ok
Oxygen Sens Htr ok
Dont know if this helps .... :y
-
pre cats prone to "collapse"(?) with age, as i understand it. :-/... but deff. age related. so if you have just had a new cat fitted, that would tend to imply another issue, perhaps??? maybe a lamda/o2 sensor needs changeing, or wireing too it.Or its the original cat and someone is telling porkies...Does the cat look newer?Difficult to tell without a comparison.
Data looks to suggest cat but i have no idea what all of that means and if "o2 sensor ok " means exactly that.... er, wheres Kevin?
-
When i bought it from the garage they mot'd it and said it failed on emissions and they had to replace the cat .... the downpipe certainly is new but ive not been underneath to look at cat tbh .
-
TROUB CODE P0420
Cat Efficiency, as mentioned
FUEL SYS1 CL, using H02S
Closed loop, Heated O2 Sensor
FUEL SYS2 N/A
1/3rd of the engine missing ;)
CALC LOAD (%) 67
Engine Load
COOLANT (F) 183
Coolant at 83 degrees C
ST FTRM1 (%) 2.3
Short term fuel trim
LT FTRM1 (%) 11.7
Long term fuel trim
ENGINE SPEED 2041 RPM
VEH SPEED 49 MPH
I/M status
Misfire monitor ok
Fuel system mon ok
Comp. Component ok
Catalyst mon ok
Evap system mon ok
Oxygen Sens ok
Oxygen Sens Htr ok
Nothing out of the ordinary there. :-/ Litle bit of long term fuel trim but obviously not excessive as it hasn't complained about that. Those look like about the same set of circumstances when mine normally comes on, low revs, accelerating moderately, just coming up to normal operating temperature. I guess that's the point where the ECU decides the cat really ought to be working.
Is the replacement cat an OEM one or pattern? Is there a distinct pre-cat and main cat with both O2 sensors before the main cat? Some cheap pattern parts try to get away with just a single cat which may not heat up fast enough.
At this stage I'd clear it and see if it comes back TBH.
Kevin
-
TROUB CODE P0420
Cat Efficiency, as mentioned
FUEL SYS1 CL, using H02S
Closed loop, Heated O2 Sensor
FUEL SYS2 N/A
1/3rd of the engine missing ;)
CALC LOAD (%) 67
Engine Load
COOLANT (F) 183
Coolant at 83 degrees C
ST FTRM1 (%) 2.3
Short term fuel trim
LT FTRM1 (%) 11.7
Long term fuel trim
ENGINE SPEED 2041 RPM
VEH SPEED 49 MPH
I/M status
Misfire monitor ok
Fuel system mon ok
Comp. Component ok
Catalyst mon ok
Evap system mon ok
Oxygen Sens ok
Oxygen Sens Htr ok
Nothing out of the ordinary there. :-/ Litle bit of long term fuel trim but obviously not excessive as it hasn't complained about that. Those look like about the same set of circumstances when mine normally comes on, low revs, accelerating moderately, just coming up to normal operating temperature. I guess that's the point where the ECU decides the cat really ought to be working.
Is the replacement cat an OEM one or pattern? Is there a distinct pre-cat and main cat with both O2 sensors before the main cat? Some cheap pattern parts try to get away with just a single cat which may not heat up fast enough.
At this stage I'd clear it and see if it comes back TBH.
Kevin
Yes a third of the engine is missing :y.... im not sure what was fitted to be honest .... it wasnt Vx so i'll assume its pattern .... i'll have a good look in the daylight and see what i can see .... cheers :y
-
Ok ....... i cleared the fault last night .... and so far after a drive to and from work its not come back yet :y
-
Mmmmm this code has showed up again today :(
-
That's about the same as mine. Goes away for a few days then it's back. Thing is, the pre-cat isn't required to meet MOT emissions so it seems stupid to invest in a new one, it's just a pain to put up with the damn light on.
Kevin
-
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Very much with you both there.
-
no receipts in the cars history you can look at and see if the new cat has a warranty...? Any idea which garage did the work? Its usually fairly easy to trace the previous owner via the log book, get the phone number for that address and see if they know who did the work or even better what make of cat you have ? Surely a cat should be warrantyed for a year al least? I'd be on the phone me...
-
The garage i bought it from replaced the cat 6 months ago ...so i would think it should still have a warranty .... if its the cat thats going i will be in touch with them but if its just one of the lambda's i would try to replace it myself ..... i dont want this light coming on every now and then ... i will add the latest freeze frame data shortly :y
-
Calc load 66.6%
Coolant temp 181 F
ST FTRM 7.8%
LT FTRM 11.7%
ENGINE RPM 2206
VEH SPEED 54
Im getting a little frustrated with this car now after all ive spent on it ...think i have a dodgy brake switch as well as the gear lever wont release sometimes on the brake light check :'( :'(
-
I would investigate the warranty on that cat. If it has failed this quickly there's either an underlying fault that wasn't properly investigated back then, or it was a poor quality cat.
There are separate trouble codes for the O2 sensors, so if one has failed the ECU would probably raise a different trouble code.
Kevin
-
I would investigate the warranty on that cat. If it has failed this quickly there's either an underlying fault that wasn't properly investigated back then, or it was a poor quality cat.
There are separate trouble codes for the O2 sensors, so if one has failed the ECU would probably raise a different trouble code.
Kevin
So this looks like its the cat thats going ? Maybe i should sell her on :-[
-
I have one of these Scotsure Warrantys on the car which is due to expire on the 21st of the month ..... it says the cat is covered :).... how much would i be looking at to have this done at VX as the claim limit is £500 .
-
Just off the phone to Vx .... goes in tomorrow to find out whats causing it :y
-
That's about the same as mine. Goes away for a few days then it's back. Thing is, the pre-cat isn't required to meet MOT emissions so it seems stupid to invest in a new one, it's just a pain to put up with the darn light on.
Kevin
Mine too. Came on a couple of days after you reset it Kevin.
I'm toying with Albatross's solution ie moving the sensors. BTW how is that holding up?
-
That's about the same as mine. Goes away for a few days then it's back. Thing is, the pre-cat isn't required to meet MOT emissions so it seems stupid to invest in a new one, it's just a pain to put up with the darn light on.
Kevin
Mine too. Came on a couple of days after you reset it Kevin.
I'm toying with Albatross's solution ie moving the sensors. BTW how is that holding up?
Popped in to see Albatross at the weekend and the cat efficiency problem has gone to be replaced by a fuel trim issue. Not sure at the moment if it's related to relocation of the Lambda sensors or not.
Apparently on some engine management systems the post-cat lambda sensors do play a role in adjusting the fuel, contrary to our previous assumptions that they just had a monitoring role. I'm wondering if this has been upset by adding another cat in the loop.
OTOH, it could be an unrelated fault. :-/
I wouldn't say it's a verified "fix" yet. :'(
Kevin
-
That's a pity. Did he just have the mod done on one bank or both? I wondered if the fuel trim issue had appeared on one or both banks..?
What did you make of his stainless exhaust? - I sense my need to address this is approaching rapidly ::)
-
That's a pity. Did he just have the mod done on one bank or both? I wondered if the fuel trim issue had appeared on one or both banks..?
What did you make of his stainless exhaust? - I sense my need to address this is approaching rapidly ::)
Both banks were behaving the same, and both had a repositioned Lambda.
I liked the exhaust. Doesn't look anything out of the ordinary, just 2 plain pipes exiting the rear, which suits me. Sounds a little louder than the OEM exhaust but in a nice burbly way not a Kwik-Fit raspy type of way so I think I could live with it. Looks beautifully made. I'm very tempted myself. MOT in december and mine won't make it that long. :'(
Kevin
-
Well just back from Vx ... they are saying its the cat and price is £850....cheapest they can do would be £780 :'( ....... but if a new one was allegedly fitted by a non Vx garage 6 months ago i assume i should be getting back in touch with them ? .... My 6 month warranty runs out on the 20th of this month and covers up to £500 in a single claim . But i also have mot insurance which states if i take it back to be tested at said garage when its due it should be covered as well up to £500 .... or are these warranties not worth the paper they are written on :'( :'( :'( :'(
-
I would ask them if they did an MOT emissions test on it. If it fails an MOT emissions test it sounds like you have a claim. If you bought it with warranty after the cat was replaced then your claim is with the garage who sold it to you IMHO. They might want to chase up any warranty on the cat though.
If you do end up replacing it yourself:
If it doesn't fail an MOT test, don't bother and live with it. It's only the pre-cat.
If it does fail the MOT, a second hand genuine cat would probably be the best solution.
Kevin
-
The post cat snsors dont do anything for mixture control on this setup and is a proven fix (mainly in europe)
I plan to do the re-postioning on Mick Dundees car when it arrives for its extended stay
-
The post cat snsors dont do anything for mixture control on this setup and is a proven fix (mainly in europe)
I plan to do the re-postioning on Mick Dundees car when it arrives for its extended stay
It's good to know that's confirmed. :y
It didn't really add up because I have a data log that shows the front Lambdas still toggling away so that doesn't tally with an extra 24% long term fuel trim due to the post-cats. I guess Albatross' issue is unrelated.
Kevin
-
The post cat snsors dont do anything for mixture control on this setup and is a proven fix (mainly in europe)
I plan to do the re-postioning on Mick Dundees car when it arrives for its extended stay
Please do not be too sure just yet. I am moving my sensors back to their original position this morning to establish root cause. I'll be clearing tthe codes and will be able to confirm whether my current 0170 & 0173 problem is then replaced by 0420 & 0430 again in the next few days.
If this is the case then what Kevin Wood has found out would appear to be true and I would take the Europeans "proof" with a pinch of salt if I were you.
it would be good if you do go ahead and reposition his sensors from my perspective becasue if he does get the same behavious then I am even more convinced that I am on the right track, if not then I need to look elsewhere. Please keep me posted.
I am building up quite a case of evidence on sorting this 0420 pre-cat isue and I WILL FIX IT, but the movement of the secondary O2 sensors has co-incided perfectly with no further 0420 codes and the start of the 0170 codes so I am not convinced just yet.
Watch this space for details:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1219699194
-
Well thats the car been in today and got a shiney new cat curtousy of the warranty so i'll see if this problem code goes away or comes back :y
-
The post cat snsors dont do anything for mixture control on this setup and is a proven fix (mainly in europe)
I plan to do the re-postioning on Mick Dundees car when it arrives for its extended stay
Please do not be too sure just yet. I am moving my sensors back to their original position this morning to establish root cause. I'll be clearing tthe codes and will be able to confirm whether my current 0170 & 0173 problem is then replaced by 0420 & 0430 again in the next few days.
If this is the case then what Kevin Wood has found out would appear to be true and I would take the Europeans "proof" with a pinch of salt if I were you.
it would be good if you do go ahead and reposition his sensors from my perspective becasue if he does get the same behavious then I am even more convinced that I am on the right track, if not then I need to look elsewhere. Please keep me posted.
I am building up quite a case of evidence on sorting this 0420 pre-cat isue and I WILL FIX IT, but the movement of the secondary O2 sensors has co-incided perfectly with no further 0420 codes and the start of the 0170 codes so I am not convinced just yet.
Watch this space for details:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1219699194
I am basing none of my statement on your current install as you currently have two many unknowns (like non standard exhaust etc) in the equation. :y
The statement is based on the findings of two contacts of mine one of which has modifed 2 cars in the Uk and a further contact who has done 12 in Germany.....all of these were succesful.
-
Ok so the shiney new cats been on for a fortnight or so and guess what ...... this code has come back today ..... where do i go from here , ....... yes i can reset it every now and then but its still very annoying ..... should i change the downstream lambda .... had a few small niggling problems with this car lately and she is starting to test my patience >:(
-
I can confirm that the issues I was having after moving the O2 sensors behind the main cat were unrelated (in fact I had a faulty MAF that was causing me a large long term fuel trim error: codes 0170 & 0173).
In answer to your question; moving the O2 sensors back has done the trick and is a sustained solution. I can fully recommend it from direct experience.
I had mine done by adding additional bosses behind the main cat on the stainless cat-back system when it was made, but any friendly and capable garage could drill a hole in the side of your existing middle section and weld you a nut on of the appropriate thread as a new O2 sensor boss.
Plugs for the old (existing) hole are fairly standard fare (even a short bolt that matched the aforementioned nut would do the job). I suspect if you gave long-life a call they'd send you one in the post for very little as I saw boxes of them lying around when I was there.
The O2 sensor cable is plenty long enough to need no modification to reach to behind the main cat. It certainly is on my 3.2 and on the 2.6, so I reckon you'd be safe there.
It is actually a very low investment and simple fix.
Go for it; what have you got to lose?
At worst you put it back again by undoing the O2 sensor and short bolt and swapping them back.
-
Fault back again ...... in the diagram above i dont seem to have a pre cat where the pipes join ..... looks to me like the pipes just join together there :-[
-
Called Vx and cause it was only in a fortnight ago for the same problem when they replaced the cat they are going to check it for free ... when i quizzed about what it could be he said could be the ecu as well as other things ..... just have to wait and see :'(
-
Called Vx and cause it was only in a fortnight ago for the same problem when they replaced the cat they are going to check it for free ... when i quizzed about what it could be he said could be the ecu as well as other things ..... just have to wait and see :'(
Any other symptoms?
Does it always start first turn of the key?
When the engine is hot and ticking over, does it seem to almost stall when you put it in drive?
Have you taken the Eco strip off and had a look at the plug wells?
-
Called Vx and cause it was only in a fortnight ago for the same problem when they replaced the cat they are going to check it for free ... when i quizzed about what it could be he said could be the ecu as well as other things ..... just have to wait and see :'(
Any other symptoms?
Does it always start first turn of the key?
When the engine is hot and ticking over, does it seem to almost stall when you put it in drive?
Have you taken the Eco strip off and had a look at the plug wells?
Car starts fine first time every time hot or cold and even with the warning light on it feels fine ie no loss of power etc..... there are no symptoms at all ..... just driving along nice and gentle and on pops this light with the same code every now and then ...thought the new cat fixed it as that was 2-3 weeks ago but obviously not :(... no stalling when put into drive hot or cold .... ive not checked the wells for 2 weeks or so but will check again tommorrow in the daylight ... last time they were clear though ..... i know i can reset this code every now and then but i would prefer a fix ....:'(.
-
Oh look, vx blaming the ecu again. I'd be trying to get the car to a tech2 with an operator who knows how to use it. So not vauxhall.
-
Well thats the car back in the Vx garage today to see if they can find out whats making this fault keep coming back :-/
-
Mmmm second new cat fitted on the 10th and yes the old code has showed up again P0420 in 6 days >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(..... wtf can i do now :'( :'( :'(
-
Mmmm second new cat fitted on the 10th and yes the old code has showed up again P0420 in 6 days >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(..... wtf can i do now :'( :'( :'(
As I have tried to tell you before; stop wasting money on garages and new cats and move the secondary O2 sensor to behind the main cat.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/2915893351_a12d3f44b9.jpg)
-
Yes i did see your solution for this but since the car was under warranty it wasnt costing anything but now the warranty has expired i will need to see if i can find a garage that can do your fix for me .... thanks :y :y :y :y
-
Yes i did see your solution for this but since the car was under warranty it wasnt costing anything but now the warranty has expired i will need to see if i can find a garage that can do your fix for me .... thanks :y :y :y :y
Some tips:
Be prepared to have replace you lambda sensor. If it has not been out for a long time then the threads can sometimes strip when removing.
Any exhaust place will be able to sell you a lambda sensor "bung" which is a bolt specifically designed to bung / block off the threaded hole where a lambda sensor goes.
Once you have a bung, find / buy a nut that will thread onto it.
Then take the bung and the nut to any decent welder. Ask him to drill a suitably sized hole (10p peice-ish in diameter) in the exhaust just behind the main cat (make sure it isn't so far back that the lambda sensor lead can't reach).
Then he/she can weld the nut you bought over the hole. Hey presto! a new lambda sensor threaded hole.
Then move the sensor back and block off the original hole with the bung.
If you ever find it not to your satisfaction it is simply a case of switching the bung and the sensor around, which is a 5 minute job.
-
Ok thanks .... will see if there is any place around here that can do that for me :y :y
-
.. and I haven't looked at the Omega's sensors but Lambda sensors are generally M18x1.5 threads, IIRC.
Kevin
-
.. and I haven't looked at the Omega's sensors but Lambda sensors are generally M18x1.5 threads, IIRC.
Kevin
Ok thanks for that :y :y
-
Got the Engine Management light on on Friday and dropped into a Vx dealer who said there were a number of codes including a Lambda sensor error and a cat problem. They cleared the faults and they stayed clear all weekend until today when it came on again at about 60mph. I've checked the code (now I know how :)) and its a 0420. I'll have a look at the wiring to the Pax side 1st sensor but how do I clear the code? Is it possible that a faulty sensor can give a 0420 but not a sensor code?
-
Mmmm second new cat fitted on the 10th and yes the old code has showed up again P0420 in 6 days >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(..... wtf can i do now :'( :'( :'(
As I have tried to tell you before; stop wasting money on garages and new cats and move the secondary O2 sensor to behind the main cat.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/2915893351_a12d3f44b9.jpg)
Ive got this code back again so after three cats... and now my warranty is finished surely three cats all fail so its got to be an O2 sensor ... anyway i looked at the locations of my O2 sensors and the second one is behind the main cat as in the picture above ....there is nothing ahead of the first O2 sensor unlike the picture ie the pre-cat bulge , the pipes just join together .... so if i change the first O2 sensor where does the wire actually connect .... seems to disappear behind the engine somewhere .
Cheers
-
Having exactly the same issues as you with this p0420 code!
I've changed both pre and post lambda's to no avail, ............the pre cat lambda plugs in just behind the top left of the cam cover at the back of the engine, but I believe its the lambda after the cat that causes the emission light to go on.
-
just to add, the previous owner had the downpipe replaced and there's only 1 cat on mine, so one sensor befor and after, I beginning to believe it just the cat isn't heating up quick enough, if I drive in town for a while and the cars warmed up the light won't come on if I go onto motorways etc, but if I go straight out on fast roads etc from cold, usually guaranteed the light will come in around 8-10 mins, I changed the MAF, plugs, coil pack, temp sensor, fuel filter, air filter etc to no avail! Had the emission checked as not due a mot for a while and all was fine, had the car over to H21 for updates last week and after speaking to him, I'm trying a few tanks of shell V power to see if the light stays off................the lights beginning to get annoying!
-
just to add, the previous owner had the downpipe replaced and there's only 1 cat on mine, so one sensor befor and after, I beginning to believe it just the cat isn't heating up quick enough, if I drive in town for a while and the cars warmed up the light won't come on if I go onto motorways etc, but if I go straight out on fast roads etc from cold, usually guaranteed the light will come in around 8-10 mins, I changed the MAF, plugs, coil pack, temp sensor, fuel filter, air filter etc to no avail! Had the emission checked as not due a mot for a while and all was fine, had the car over to H21 for updates last week and after speaking to him, I'm trying a few tanks of shell V power to see if the light stays off................the lights beginning to get annoying!
I understand your hatred of this light :y .... your discription of when yours comes on is exactly like mine , id never really paid attention that way but now it does sound like mine aswell .... i tried the bp ultimate stuff but sure enough it came on again >:( >:( ..... so is the only option a new genuine Cat at £800 odds .. i can reset my light when ever it comes on but its still a pain in the a**e :y
-
.. i can reset my light when ever it comes on but its still a pain in the a**e :y
How do you reset it?
-
At the moment I putting it down to the cat not heating up quick enough up enough, I'm no expert on this at all, but as the car orginally would have had pre cat with lambda before and after this and then then main cat with no sensor after that, I would presume that the purpose of the main cat is to clean what the pre cat doesn't.
seen this on ebay for the 2.2 - item 260257204166
From reading many posts the post cat sensor should read rich as their should be no oxygen left, this will only be the case when the cat is up to temperature, the ecu presumes the car should be up to temp after a certain period with sensor inputs etc and if it isn't the emissions light comes on if oxygen is still detected ie the post cat sensor is not reading rich. If, like mine, there's only 1 cat which will heat up slower as it further away from the engine, it will take longer for the cat work properly. I'm taking this to be same reason for omegas that have the light coming on but still with orginal 2 cat set up still pass emissions tests as the 2nd cat will do the rest.
Question I've always had is, if the your pre cat is okay and the emissions light is off with the post lambda running rich as there's no o2, whats the 2nd cat doing?
-
.. i can reset my light when ever it comes on but its still a pain in the a**e :y
How do you reset it?
I have a code reader and reset it everytime it comes on which is almost daily :-/
-
At the moment I putting it down to the cat not heating up quick enough up enough, I'm no expert on this at all, but as the car orginally would have had pre cat with lambda before and after this and then then main cat with no sensor after that, I would presume that the purpose of the main cat is to clean what the pre cat doesn't.
seen this on ebay for the 2.2 - item 260257204166
From reading many posts the post cat sensor should read rich as their should be no oxygen left, this will only be the case when the cat is up to temperature, the ecu presumes the car should be up to temp after a certain period with sensor inputs etc and if it isn't the emissions light comes on if oxygen is still detected ie the post cat sensor is not reading rich. If, like mine, there's only 1 cat which will heat up slower as it further away from the engine, it will take longer for the cat work properly. I'm taking this to be same reason for omegas that have the light coming on but still with orginal 2 cat set up still pass emissions tests as the 2nd cat will do the rest.
Question I've always had is, if the your pre cat is okay and the emissions light is off with the post lambda running rich as there's no o2, whats the 2nd cat doing?
Im actually watching the same item at the moment but cant decide wether to bother if it might or might not work or make any difference :-/
-
I know what you mean, other option I suppose could be to remove the warning bulb as a last resort, we've still got the ECU/EML light to report all other faults, not something I would normally do but it might come to that, don't see the point in changing any more parts if its passing MOt emissions test, and many cars don't have this light, I think I'll only change the downpipe/cats if it fails the test.
-
It would be my last resort ... if i was to change the cat i would get new O2 sensors as well .... if that didnt work it would get a gallon of fuel and a match ::)
-
I know what you mean, other option I suppose could be to remove the warning bulb as a last resort
Does it not go into some kind of default / back up fuel map mode if the light is eluminated :-/ .
-
I know what you mean, other option I suppose could be to remove the warning bulb as a last resort
Does it not go into some kind of default / back up fuel map mode if the light is eluminated :-/ .
As far as I can see post cat sensor that cause that light to go on has no effect on the fueling etc at all, I'm not seeing any difference to fuel economy, performance when it does come on. It would only go into limp mode if it was running and the ECU/EML light was on if dependign on the code.
Just to let you know though if the emissions light comes on and I reset it, it will stay off for the rest of the day normally.
-
I know what you mean, other option I suppose could be to remove the warning bulb as a last resort
Does it not go into some kind of default / back up fuel map mode if the light is eluminated :-/ .
As far as I can see post cat sensor that cause that light to go on has no effect on the fueling etc at all, I not seeing any difference to fuel economy, performance when it does come on.
Just to let you know though if the emissions light comes on and I reset it, it will stay off for the rest of the day normally. I only use the car usually at the weekend though
Yes i must admit mine isnt quite daily :-[ ... although it does seem to becoming more and more frequent .... 3 or 4 trips to work ( 20 mile round trip ) and she lights up again >:(
-
I have a 3.2 and its not a matter of IF then light comes on for a 0420/0430 .. but WHEn the light comes on ... :(
Due to the info from the forum I purchased the restting tools ... but have only had the light on twice in a year .... I do however run on LPG which is somewhat cleaner ..... and might make a difference ..:)
-
I should probly just put up with it coming on but i find it very annoying .... i would buy the ebay item and new O2 sensors IF it would cure the problem ... heard others who have done that and still comes on :'(
-
Sounds good, the emissions will be that low with the lpg that the cats won't even need to up to normal operating temp to working to be doing enough to keep the light off!
Had a 3.0 elite around 5 years ago with lpg, never has any problems with emission.........it didn't have the annoying emissions light though!
-
I have a 3.2 and its not a matter of IF then light comes on for a 0420/0430 .. but WHEn the light comes on ... :(
Due to the info from the forum I purchased the restting tools ... but have only had the light on twice in a year .... I do however run on LPG which is somewhat cleaner ..... and might make a difference ..:)
Out of interest what re-setter/reader do you use? The seem to be a vast assortment (and price) on FleaBay. I guess for a '52 3.2 an OBD2/OBDII compatible one, and USB would be the most future proof/versatile given a lot of notebooks don't have a serial port.
-
Any generic code reader will read and reset the codes I believe, I was only interested in reading a reseting and i want to have it a ready use without the need for a laptop I got this -
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=10001&catalogId=1500001501&langId=-1&searchTerms=code+rader
It was only 30 when I bought it, I was 500 miles from home when the light come on for the first time and in panic bought it but it's a good unit, does what it says, only engine codes though I think, but there's plenty on ebay that will do the same...do search there's plenty of recommended on here
-
I have a 3.2 and its not a matter of IF then light comes on for a 0420/0430 .. but WHEn the light comes on ... :(
Due to the info from the forum I purchased the restting tools ... but have only had the light on twice in a year .... I do however run on LPG which is somewhat cleaner ..... and might make a difference ..:)
Out of interest what re-setter/reader do you use? The seem to be a vast assortment (and price) on FleaBay. I guess for a '52 3.2 an OBD2/OBDII compatible one, and USB would be the most future proof/versatile given a lot of notebooks don't have a serial port.
I started with the ELM327 .. but found it awkward and tedious through having to have a laptop running with it, and I was NOT impressed with the software .. although it did the job and sorted out the first occurence (which was whilst on holiday in the mountains to the south of France!! - if I hadn't been pre-warned and pre-armed the holiday would have been drasticaly altered .... thanks to OOF ... 15 minutes and sorted :y :y)
As the forum indicates the problem can recur ... I decided to get the maxscan GS500 .. it is stand-alone, very easy to use, and lives in the boot .. :)
-
I have the stand alone rac one .... got it on ebay new for 35 quid .... only does engine and gearbox though :y
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/catalogId/1500001501/partNumber/7402759.htm
-
I have a 3.2 and its not a matter of IF then light comes on for a 0420/0430 .. but WHEn the light comes on ... :(
Due to the info from the forum I purchased the restting tools ... but have only had the light on twice in a year .... I do however run on LPG which is somewhat cleaner ..... and might make a difference ..:)
Out of interest what re-setter/reader do you use? The seem to be a vast assortment (and price) on FleaBay. I guess for a '52 3.2 an OBD2/OBDII compatible one, and USB would be the most future proof/versatile given a lot of notebooks don't have a serial port.
I started with the ELM327 .. but found it awkward and tedious through having to have a laptop running with it, and I was NOT impressed with the software .. although it did the job and sorted out the first occurence (which was whilst on holiday in the mountains to the south of France!! - if I hadn't been pre-warned and pre-armed the holiday would have been drasticaly altered .... thanks to OOF ... 15 minutes and sorted :y :y)
As the forum indicates the problem can recur ... I decided to get the maxscan GS500 .. it is stand-alone, very easy to use, and lives in the boot .. :)
I agree with this.......
-
Thanks for the advice. Got the Maxscan GS500 delivered today and had a fascinating 30 min in the car looking at the ECU doing it's thing!
I cleared the MIL so will see what happens when I take it up the motorway on Friday - I'll fill it with V-Power or Ultimate to see if that makes any difference to the ASDA tankful it's had when the light came on this time.