Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: feeutfo on 09 April 2009, 19:52:07
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i can see the feed to vapourisor has to t off from the coolent bridge but before the hbv,got that.
Where does the return plumb in? Which of the 2 heater pipes at the bulk head is return?
hope youll save me some time in the morning figuring it out.
cheers
Chris :)
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Either T like that -
back in on the heater out pipe, or in series back into the HBV
Whoops - see below
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(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/martinimber/lpg-back-of-engine.jpg)
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Kevin and I have both binned the T pieces and run the coolant from the Bridge (before the HBV) through the Vap and back to HBV. Looks nice and neat and it doesn't have any adverse effects at all :y :y :y
Did the Manifold arrive in time?
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There are some photos of my coolant plumbing butchery here: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1216678718/0 although I didn't take enough of that bit!
In summary, as Lazydocker said, out of the coolant bridge, 90 degree elbow and round to the vapouriser, then return from the vapouriser goes to the single connection on one side of the HBV, where the pipe from the bridge used to attach (I cut this pipe as shown in the photo and used an inline connector to extend it round to the vapouriser).
T pieces would doubtless work just as well, but this way involves less surgery and not as much plumbing rammed in behind the engine.
If you need any plumbing bits I probably have a couple left over. Ditto the taps for the injector nozzles, etc. If you're short of anything give me a shout.
Kevin
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Here's the Bridge-to-HBV pipe before...
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP2003.jpg)
..And after...
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP2004.jpg)
I also ditched the supplementary coolant pump to make way for the vapouriser. Added a 90 degree elbow to achieve this. You can just about see it here...
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP2006.jpg)
Kevin
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ah ok, so Martin has t pieces ( which is all i have ) and his pic makes sense, with t's in mind, once you know where the return goes.( good work Martin, thankyou :y )
T's no good for the "mark II version" which does look sensable as it cuts out the hbv. But to clarify, the pipes from hbv to suplementary pump... basically go from hbv direct to bulk head pipe( which ever one of the two it is, cant visualise it wihout it front of me) when sup pump removed.... correct?
Great replys gents thankyou... :)
No manifold yet Paul but its fine on reserve, its going well.... so far :-X ;)
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Hi Chris,
Yes, the pump normally goes in the feed from HBV to bulkhead connector so I just cut it out of the loop and joined the two hose ends with a 90 degree, which happened to fit where I'd cut the pipes. It makes bo11ock all difference having removed it. Not surprised, as I tried to employ the old pump for a garden irrigation project and it can barely muster a trickle!
Keep meaning to get a hose from a model without the pump so I can do away with that hose join. Then again I changed my coolant 2 weeks ago so I guess it can stay like that.
Kevin
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Hi Chris,
Yes, the pump normally goes in the feed from HBV to bulkhead connector so I just cut it out of the loop and joined the two hose ends with a 90 degree, which happened to fit where I'd cut the pipes. It makes bo11ock all difference having removed it. Not surprised, as I tried to employ the old pump for a garden irrigation project and it can barely muster a trickle!
Keep meaning to get a hose from a model without the pump so I can do away with that hose join. Then again I changed my coolant 2 weeks ago so I guess it can stay like that.
Kevin
Yes, i played with the heater settings with a warm silent engine and i dont think ill miss it, much as i like to keep things as is, there seems to be nowhere else to sight the vap.isor.
on that subject, ive been eyeing the space between the air box and wing to site the ecu, did you look into that?
also where did you run the loom, esp to injectors?
thanks for pics Kev. and handy link :y
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Dont use T-pieces, you want max flow through the evaporator so plumb as per Kevins install.
It does NOT remove the bypass valve from the setup.
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I used T pieces on mine after being told some vapourisers can restrict the water flow (not the V-SGI that Jeremy usually supplies though) and result in a heater that's not quite as hot as it should be when you're using lots of gas.
Mine works fine and gets to 30 deg. after 1/2 a mile driving and I've never had it freeze up on me.
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I do not trust the flow rate on my evaporator to go in series.
I moved my aux pump back about 4 inches to make room for the evaporator
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I do not trust the flow rate on my evaporator to go in series.
I moved my aux pump back about 4 inches to make room for the evaporator
Which vap do you have Martin? Is it same as Kevins in his pictures link? As mine is? Ta.
Mark, thanks for input, can you explane re hbv?
I was thinking if the return is before the hbv then the hbv will not interfere with flow to vap?
Never thought the vap would alter flow to hbv? Didnt think of that.
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With the Voltran vaporiser plumbing it "in series" is the tried and tested method. I can think of at least half a dozen installations of this kit on an Omega that I've seen plumbed this way.
There is no noticeable reduction in the performance of the heater on my car. I suspect the removal of the coolant pump and pipework from the equation makes up for the addition of the vapouriser.
Using T pieces the majority of the water flow will take the path of least resistance so you may well end up with inadequate flow through either the heater or the vapouriser. Putting them "in series" means a little more restriction, but you have a powerful water pump on the engine and, during the critical warming up phase, the thermostat is closed so there is plenty of grunt available to get flow through the system. I can feel my vapouriser warming up probably only 20 or 30 seconds after a cold start.
In addition, as I said, it's easier to plumb too, IMHO.
Kevin
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thanks Kev, where do you get the Elbows/90degree joins?
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I got them from Vehicle Wiring products, IIRC. Should get them from a decent motor factors, though, if in a hurry.
Kevin
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cheers Kev. :-)
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cheers Kev. :-)
Just been rummaging in the garage and I have some left over if you have trouble finding any.
Seems I bought a few last time I was LPG'ing.
Kevin
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Romano kit and the bore is not that big
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cheers Kev. :-)
Just been rummaging in the garage and I have some left over if you have trouble finding any.
Seems I bought a few last time I was LPG'ing.
Kevin
Got some mate but thanks for looking. BnQ beleive it or not, 19mill polly. And a load of other tat that mite have done. But the 19 mill just about fitted with a fight. It had even stopped raining by the time i got back.
Went well in the end. Didnt even remove the hbv just cut the pipe with a knife and poked the elbow in. Vap mounted to wing, coolent pipes plumbed in and inlet manifolds back on.
Loom and fuel pipes to injectors in the morning...well, lunch time hopefully. :-)
Did you see my post re ecu sighting and loom root(roughly)? And will i def have to remove the injector loom cable tray ? Left it no for the min incase they get mixed up.
Cheers guys.
Chris :-)
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cheers Kev. :-)
Just been rummaging in the garage and I have some left over if you have trouble finding any.
Seems I bought a few last time I was LPG'ing.
Kevin
Got some mate but thanks for looking. BnQ beleive it or not, 19mill polly. And a load of other tat that mite have done. But the 19 mill just about fitted with a fight. It had even stopped raining by the time i got back.
Went well in the end. Didnt even remove the hbv just cut the pipe with a knife and poked the elbow in. Vap mounted to wing, coolent pipes plumbed in and inlet manifolds back on.
Loom and fuel pipes to injectors in the morning...well, lunch time hopefully. :-)
Did you see my post re ecu sighting and loom root(roughly)? And will i def have to remove the injector loom cable tray ? Left it no for the min incase they get mixed up.
Cheers guys.
Chris :-)
Makes Life easier if you remove the cable tray :y :y
I mounted my ECU behind the bumper with the S/L pump but it's tight on space and loom length ::) ::)
I routed the loom accross the front of the engine and into the V for injectors and accross behind the bumper for Engine ECU connectors
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ok ready for the plenum to go back on, except i cant bring myself to drill a hole in it (plenum) for the vac feed to vap is it? (brass cross piece in line with the fuel line)
Anyway, is there anywhere else i can run it from? i hate making ireversable changes to expensive bits of metal :'(
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ok ready for the plenum to go back on, except i cant bring myself to drill a hole in it (plenum) for the vac feed to vap is it? (brass cross piece in line with the fuel line)
Anyway, is there anywhere else i can run it from? i hate making ireversable changes to expensive bits of metal :'(
I take it that a no then? :-)
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ok ready for the plenum to go back on, except i cant bring myself to drill a hole in it (plenum) for the vac feed to vap is it? (brass cross piece in line with the fuel line)
Anyway, is there anywhere else i can run it from? i hate making ireversable changes to expensive bits of metal :'(
I take it that a no then? :-)
Sorry... Was busy earlier when I saw this!
I believe you can take it from any vac line as it is only a reference but... Drilling and tapping the plenum is a tried and tested location... You've already drilled and tapped the manifold so why worry about this one?
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ok ready for the plenum to go back on, except i cant bring myself to drill a hole in it (plenum) for the vac feed to vap is it? (brass cross piece in line with the fuel line)
Anyway, is there anywhere else i can run it from? i hate making ireversable changes to expensive bits of metal :'(
I take it that a no then? :-)
Sorry... Was busy earlier when I saw this!
I believe you can take it from any vac line as it is only a reference but... Drilling and tapping the plenum is a tried and tested location... You've already drilled and tapped the manifold so why worry about this one?
im a big girly poof is why.... ;D got to cut into the wires by ecu yet, im dredding it :-/
so should bo ok if i pinch a bit off vac from the cars existing vac system....somehow....bit of pipe for joins and a tee off maybe :-?
got the manifold this morning by the way. :y :y :y :y
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ok ready for the plenum to go back on, except i cant bring myself to drill a hole in it (plenum) for the vac feed to vap is it? (brass cross piece in line with the fuel line)
Anyway, is there anywhere else i can run it from? i hate making ireversable changes to expensive bits of metal :'(
I take it that a no then? :-)
Sorry... Was busy earlier when I saw this!
I believe you can take it from any vac line as it is only a reference but... Drilling and tapping the plenum is a tried and tested location... You've already drilled and tapped the manifold so why worry about this one?
im a big girly poof is why.... ;D got to cut into the wires by ecu yet, im dredding it :-/
so should bo ok if i pinch a bit off vac from the cars existing vac system....somehow....bit of pipe for joins and a tee off maybe :-?
got the manifold this morning by the way. :y :y :y :y
IIRCC there's a cople of plastic T's for vac pipes in the kit but TBH I'd take it from the plenum... That way it can't interfere with anything and nothing can interfere with it :y :y :y
Don't be such a poof... It's easier than drilling/tapping the manifold for injectors :y :y :y
As for the ECU wires... If you have enough slack in the loom then solder straight to the back of the pins... I didn't quite have enough so I just stripped the insulation back and soldered the wire onto it... Then re insulated... Job done :y :y :y
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The vac pipes already there give an accurate vac reading. T off those.
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The vac pipes already there give an accurate vac reading. T off those.
Cheers mark, was thinking to try it and see. If no good then can tap the plenum later. :y
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The vac pipes already there give an accurate vac reading. T off those.
Cheers mark, was thinking to try it and see. If no good then can tap the plenum later. :y
Make sure you don't put the tee downstream of a reservoir though, or it will not be happy. Take it straight from the tee in the brake servo hose.
Kevin
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The vac pipes already there give an accurate vac reading. T off those.
Cheers mark, was thinking to try it and see. If no good then can tap the plenum later. :y
Make sure you don't put the tee downstream of a reservoir though, or it will not be happy. Take it straight from the tee in the brake servo hose.
Kevin
Exactly what i had in mind. ;)
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right, wiring then.
all the return wires, lambda to ecu are brown black, as tis confirms, if i read it correctly.
I guess the only way to make sure of getting rear lambda bank 1or 2 is to bell it out with a meter? unless any one has the pin numbers to hand... ::)....? should meter out anyway i know.
lpg brown wire to ignition coil...im thinking any black wire 'from' the ecu to coil?....... ::).... i hate electrics.
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IIRC, it's the blue and white Lambda wires that you need. The colour codes for all 4 Lambdas are the same in this respect so the best policy is to trace the wire back from the pin on the ECU connector IMHO.
Don't wire the RPM signal to the coil. Use the light green wire from the ECU to the tachometer. Again, trace the pin number from the ECU connector.
For switched 12v the easiest solution is to use the black wire from the cooling system diagnostic connector in the ECU / relay box.
Kevin
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IIRC, it's the blue and white Lambda wires that you need. The colour codes for all 4 Lambdas are the same in this respect so the best policy is to trace the wire back from the pin on the ECU connector IMHO.
Don't wire the RPM signal to the coil. Use the light green wire from the ECU to the tachometer. Again, trace the pin number from the ECU connector.
For switched 12v the easiest solution is to use the black wire from the cooling system diagnostic connector in the ECU / relay box.
Kevin
Aw. I was with you until the last paragraph. I dont suppose your around tomorrow? Well today now. :-)
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Not sure what the plan is tomorrow but probably around. If the weather is still sh1te I'll be bored. I'll at least take some photos and sort out the ECU pin numbers though.
Kevin
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Not sure what the plan is tomorrow but probably around. If the weather is still sh1te I'll be bored. I'll at least take some photos and sort out the ECU pin numbers though.
Kevin
Thanks Kev.
I have some jobs to do before i can drive the car, like make brackets for the ecu, refit the wheel arch liner and fill the coolent. So could be with you by lunch time say? Still have the rear end to sort out though so its not urgent if you have something on.