Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Jimbob on 16 March 2009, 12:08:30
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Ljay's 3.0 MV6 Manual....
Idle is fairly good, stays within 10rpm of 700 (does now after IAC clean anyway)
However there is a fair shudder, and a smell of petrol
Plugs were changed under a year ago, no evidence of a misfire.
Both manifold gaskets have been changed, however the passenger side is only held on with one stud, although there is no ticking when cold.
Here is the live data....
Measuring blocks information:
Identifier 1D
Battery Voltage 13.5 V
Immobiliser Signal Received
Immobiliser Active
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0.45 V
Simulated Idle Position Active
Simulated Full Load Switch Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor 0.71 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor 11 kg/h
Coolant Temperature 0.97 V
Coolant Temperature 91 °C
Intake Air Temperature 2.73 V
Intake Air Temperature 39 °C
Engine Type 6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding Manual Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch P - N 0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning) Active 12V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light) Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre) 10 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Spark
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load
Knock Signal Inactive
Knock Retard 0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation) Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) 0.76 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve 0%
O2 Sensor 1 215 mV
O2 Sensor 2 146 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1 Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2 Closed
Air/Fuel Ratio 1 Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2 Lean
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 144 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 137
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 219 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 189 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map) 130 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map) 121 Steps
Hall Sensor Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse Active
Engine Speed 693 RPM
Idle Air Control 149 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control) 122 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control) 152 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control) 124 Steps
Desired Idle Air 10 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 10 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed 700 RPM
Injection Pulse 3.3 ms
Engine Load Signal 0.9 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed 0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1 Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2 Inactive 12V
Torque Control Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning) Active 0V
Diagnostic Request Inactive 5V
Ill post the same from mine for comparison as well....
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leaky injector(s) on the fuel rail bag pipes?
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For comparison....
Value Ljay Jimbob
Identifier 1D 1D
Battery Voltage 13.5 V 14.1 V
Immobiliser Signal Received Not Received
Immobiliser Active Inactive
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0.45 V 0.51 V
Simulated Idle Position Active Active
Simulated Full Load Switch Inactive Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor 0.71 V 1.46 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor 11 kg/h 50 kg/h
Coolant Temperature 0.97 V 3.68 V
Coolant Temperature 91 °C 16 °C
Intake Air Temperature 2.73 V 3.66 V
Intake Air Temperature 39 °C 17 °C
Engine Type 6 Cylinder 6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding Manual Transmission Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch P - N 0V P - N 0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning) Active 12V Active 12V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light) Off 12V Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay Active 0V Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre) 10 °CA 2 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Load Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Spark Spark
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load Load
Knock Signal Inactive Inactive
Knock Retard 0 °CA 0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay Inactive 12V Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation) Inactive Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) 0.76 V 0.78 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve 0% 0%
O2 Sensor 1 215 mV 566 mV
O2 Sensor 2 146 mV 546 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1 Closed Open
O2 Sensor Loop 2 Closed Open
Air/Fuel Ratio 1 Lean Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2 Lean Rich
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 144 Steps 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 137 128
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 219 Steps 249 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 189 Steps 100 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map) 130 Steps 129 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map) 121 Steps 125 Steps
Hall Sensor Inactive Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse Active Inactive
Engine Speed 693 RPM 1.305 RPM
Idle Air Control 149 Steps 109 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control) 122 Steps 128 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control) 152 Steps 129 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control) 124 Steps 124 Steps
Desired Idle Air 10 kg/h 42 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 10 kg/h 42 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed 700 RPM 1.300 RPM
Injection Pulse 3.3 ms 6.0 ms
Engine Load Signal 0.9 ms 2.2 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0% 0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse Not Received 12V Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed 0 km/h 0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1 Inactive 12V Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2 Inactive 12V Inactive 12V
Torque Control Inactive Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning) Active 0V Active 0V
Diagnostic Request Inactive 5V Inactive 5V
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Edit, hers was hot, mine cold, will repost after a drive in mine later.
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HT related? :-/
eg DIS?
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HT related? :-/
eg DIS?
Does it at idle, no misfire I can detect :-/
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got a nice wack by touching the cap and plenum on a 2.5 yesterday. Wondered after if i should have used a meter. :-)
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My initial thoughts were DIS or HT leads.
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Cheers, Was my 1st thought, but wouldnt you need a misfire for that?
My warm live data coming up soon....
Ahh well, if i've gotta do one, may as well do dis, leads and new plugs to be on the sure side.
It does seem a little down on power as well :-/ bit slower through the whole rev range.
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Edit, hers was hot, mine cold, will repost after a drive in mine later.
Desired Idle Air 10 kg/h 42 kg/h
I was going to say - take the brick off the accelerator!
Is the smell of fuel from the exhaust outlet or the oily thing at the other end?
I would say an ignition misfire too but if it's just running "fluffy" perhaps it's running rich. Lambda loops are closed and fuel trim is not that high though...
Does it misbehave straight from a cold start or only when up to temperature? Any misfire under load, etc or is it just odd when idling?
EGR valve OK? Worth cheaning / blanking it off for a check?
Kevin
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Edit, hers was hot, mine cold, will repost after a drive in mine later.
Desired Idle Air 10 kg/h 42 kg/h
I was going to say - take the brick off the accelerator!
Is the smell of fuel from the exhaust outlet or the oily thing at the other end?
I would say an ignition misfire too but if it's just running "fluffy" perhaps it's running rich. Lambda loops are closed and fuel trim is not that high though...
Does it misbehave straight from a cold start or only when up to temperature? Any misfire under load, etc or is it just odd when idling?
EGR valve OK? Worth cheaning / blanking it off for a check?
Kevin
Smell is in the car.
misbehaviour is constant, at idle, couldnt get a misfire, redlined in several gears to try.
EGR was leaking, is blanked.
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What state are the fuel lines that connect to the the tank in (under the metal plate in the boot)
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What state are the fuel lines that connect to the the tank in (under the metal plate in the boot)
I'll just go and check.....
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Warm - Warm live data....
Measuring blocks information:
Ljay Jimbob
Identifier 1D 1D
Battery Voltage 13.5 V 13.4 V
Immobiliser Signal Received Not Received
Immobiliser Active Inactive
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0.45 V 0.51 V
Simulated Idle Position Active Active
Simulated Full Load Switch Inactive Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor 0.71 V 0.77 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor 11 kg/h 14 kg/h
Coolant Temperature 0.97 V 0.94 V
Coolant Temperature 91 °C 93 °C
Intake Air Temperature 2.73 V 3.16 V
Intake Air Temperature 39 °C 29 °C
Engine Type 6 Cylinder 6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding Manual Transmission Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch P - N 0V P - N 0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning) Active 12V Active 12V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light) Off 12V Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay Active 0V Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre) 10 °CA 10 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Load Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Spark Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load Load
Knock Signal Inactive Inactive
Knock Retard 0 °CA 0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay Inactive 12V Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation) Inactive Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) 0.76 V 0.78 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve 0% 0%
O2 Sensor 1 215 mV 283 mV
O2 Sensor 2 146 mV 302 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1 Closed Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2 Closed Closed
Air/Fuel Ratio 1 Lean Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2 Lean Lean
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 144 Steps 152 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 137 135
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 219 Steps 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 189 Steps 128 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map) 130 Steps 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map) 121 Steps 128 Steps
Hall Sensor Inactive Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse Active Inactive
Engine Speed 693 RPM 693 RPM
Idle Air Control 149 Steps 135 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control) 122 Steps 124 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control) 152 Steps 160 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control) 124 Steps 127 Steps
Desired Idle Air 10 kg/h 12 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 10 kg/h 12 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed 700 RPM 700 RPM
Injection Pulse 3.3 ms 3.5 ms
Engine Load Signal 0.9 ms 1.1 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0% 0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse Not Received 12V Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed 0 km/h 0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1 Inactive 12V Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2 Inactive 12V Inactive 12V
Torque Control Inactive Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning) Active 0V Active 0V
Diagnostic Request Inactive 5V Inactive 5V
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fuel pipes :
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/littlejimmym/red%20mv6%20photos/IMG_0754s.jpg)
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Just thinking when i had the same kind of prob with mine last year turned out to be a VERY small cut in one of the fuel line under that plate .Also would only show up when under 1/2 tank as the hole was high up the line and was ok but when under 1/2 tank could then take in air giving Shuddering and the smell.
HTH
Steve
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Something slightly odd at idle there, the idle block learn valves look a little high.....which sudgests its something before the plenum or affecting both banks.
The rest looks fine, yours I would expect to have a slightly higher idle air useage as its driving a motability sponsored gearbox.
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Something slightly odd at idle there, the idle block learn valves look a little high.....which sudgests its something before the plenum or affecting both banks.
The rest looks fine, yours I would expect to have a slightly higher idle air useage as its driving a motability sponsored gearbox.
I'm sure your not....but your not checking against the ones i just reset on mine are you ;D
There was a big difference, but always had been since my new exhaust, so noticed i could reset em, so did to see what happens ;D
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Something slightly odd at idle there, the idle block learn valves look a little high.....which sudgests its something before the plenum or affecting both banks.
The rest looks fine, yours I would expect to have a slightly higher idle air useage as its driving a motability sponsored gearbox.
I'm sure your not....but your not checking against the ones i just reset on mine are you ;D
There was a big difference, but always had been since my new exhaust, so noticed i could reset em, so did to see what happens ;D
So you destroyed the reference data :-[ :-/
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Something slightly odd at idle there, the idle block learn valves look a little high.....which sudgests its something before the plenum or affecting both banks.
The rest looks fine, yours I would expect to have a slightly higher idle air useage as its driving a motability sponsored gearbox.
I'm sure your not....but your not checking against the ones i just reset on mine are you ;D
There was a big difference, but always had been since my new exhaust, so noticed i could reset em, so did to see what happens ;D
So you destroyed the reference data :-[ :-/
Not falling for that....they are earlier in this thread and dont alter that fast ;D (do they :-[)
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Air intake looks a bit high on ljays - would that affect how much air the engine thinks its using? Not sure why it has air temp, as surely MAF should measure amount of air, regardless of its temp :-/
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Air intake looks a bit high on ljays - would that affect how much air the engine thinks its using? Not sure why it has air temp, as surely MAF should measure amount of air, regardless of its temp :-/
Air density changes due to temperature do have a small effect on the volume verus the mass of air, so there is a correction applied. Not the end of the world if it was a bit out though. It would easily be taken out by the Lambda loops.
Kevin
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Right, so all new electrics then.
Plugs
Leads
Dis
Plugs I know are vauxhall.
Leads, isnt it halfords vectra ones for this?
Dis - not sure, whats recommended? and which type am I likely to have - early MV6 - long plenum.
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Air intake looks a bit high on ljays - would that affect how much air the engine thinks its using? Not sure why it has air temp, as surely MAF should measure amount of air, regardless of its temp :-/
Air density changes due to temperature do have a small effect on the volume verus the mass of air, so there is a correction applied. Not the end of the world if it was a bit out though. It would easily be taken out by the Lambda loops.
Kevin
Actualy, most injection systems use the air temp to do nothing more than give an indication of fuel temp as air mass is the true value required for combustion calcs.
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Air intake looks a bit high on ljays - would that affect how much air the engine thinks its using? Not sure why it has air temp, as surely MAF should measure amount of air, regardless of its temp :-/
Air density changes due to temperature do have a small effect on the volume verus the mass of air, so there is a correction applied. Not the end of the world if it was a bit out though. It would easily be taken out by the Lambda loops.
Kevin
Actualy, most injection systems use the air temp to do nothing more than give an indication of fuel temp as air mass is the true value required for combustion calcs.
If your metering is recording air mass then that's true.
Kevin
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Right, so all new electrics then.
Plugs
Leads
Dis
Plugs I know are vauxhall.
Leads, isnt it halfords vectra ones for this?
Dis - not sure, whats recommended? and which type am I likely to have - early MV6 - long plenum.
Any advice on the above? anyone? I know people have had differing results with various leads :-?
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Right, gonna get the DIS from the dealer, not many on ebay at the mo, plus not sure on type.
The leads, been searching and I think its Bosch B162's I need, although there are references to B143's
Any advice or better solutions before I order em?
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The Bosch plug leads for the V6 are a bit hit and miss (and have been very dissapointed in them!)
These however, look to be genuine!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/vauxhall-omega-spark-plug-leads_W0QQitemZ140309016266QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item140309016266&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
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Pretty sure I have a new DIS in the garage that I could chuck in the post.
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Great spot, ordered those, DIS would be great if you think you have the right type, which do you think it is? Crank sensor was oval if it helps age?
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I think it oval.....and I have a new oval one.....if it does the job then just replace it at some point when a convenient one comes up on ebay
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Cool, will do :y
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Dis Pack
Leads
Plugs
All changed this morning (about 3 hours)
Running a lot nicer!
Cheers all
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Update, Its still not idleing very smoothly, but masses better when driving, so looks like something else.
Been so much talk on MAF's I thought I'd swap em over.
What a difference, car masses smoother on idle. It was warm, and couldnt take the car out, so awaiting further feedback, but looking promising.
weird one is mine is running fine with the other one too :-/
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Had confirmation is is running better!
Hopefully nailed it then :D