Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: omega trev on 17 April 2009, 20:20:17
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hi all
im having a few issues with the old girl, ive only had her a month and am trying to do some preventative maintanence i.e. new wishbones, oil and filters all changed. the things ive noticed are the temp goes to about 97ish in traffic or at slow speeds the fan comes on and the temp never goes above 100, the hoses get quite pressurised when the car is at that temp although if i go on a run at 70ish for a few miles the temp comes back to about 95 and the hoses are easy to squeeze again and the final thing is the heaters are starting to only blow luke warm even at hi setting. i have tried burping the system but no result. there are no signs of coolant leak or coolant loss at all and no oil in water or vice versa.
any ideas? any help would be really appraciated as im a bit worried :(
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Have you check all vac pipe's around engine bay?
Maybe one might have warn a whole it where they touch engine and body parts of car, i found this in one of the omega's
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i havnt mate to be honest im not much of an engine man so i wouldnt know where to start
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The very small black vac pipe's that come from back of engine to the front, they are cliped onto the top of wire loom over near side head, just check all pushed on and no splits on rubber bends etc very easy to follow! two also go to the air filter. Top right in engine bay under plastic cover
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ill have a look at them then mate thanks for that i am a bit concerned about the head gaskets to be honest
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That wouldn't be your head gasket, if that was gone it would blow up the coolent system with psi and blow a pipe or over heat the engine.
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well thats a bit of a relief the previous owner has had the head gaskets done back in november last year but you never know i had a renualt 19 16v back in the day and the head gasket went twice in 12 months >:(
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ok ive checked the vac pipes and all is well so im not sure what to do next, could it be a sticky thermostat?
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hi again
i went out in the old brut last night and noticed that the blowers were warm when the engine had first started but as the temp gauge went up the blowers went cold :( could anyone shed any light as i dont know where to start
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the heating/cooling system is quite complex andit is possible that the HG replacement was done because they confused a failed HG for something else and didn't fix the original problem.
first check is to make sure you have heat flowing into the cabin & trough the matrix. There is a valve on the bakc of the engine that is known as a heater bypass valve that diverts heat from the matrix when the tem settings are on cold.
so, run the car up to temperature with heating settings full on. feel the pipes going through the bulkhead just to the right under the servo: should both be really hot. Inside the car, feel around above the pedals for the alu pipes that go to the heater matrix: are these both hot?
If they are then the problem is related to the air distrubtion system inside the car: if one or both are not scalding hot then we have a problem under the bonnet
post up what you find and we'll lead you through
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thanx jonathanh ill have a look at it and post the results asap
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ok ive just been under the dash on the left of the pedals and the top alloy pipe is to hot to touch for more than a second but the bottom one is nowhere near as hot i can hold it for as long as i want without it burning me fingers if that is any help to you ;)
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yes that is helpful: it tells us that you do not have a good flow of hot water through the heater matrix.
this could be due to a blocked matrix or (possibly) the heater bypass valve not being fitted properly or working properly.
so, next two steps are
1) trace the vac hose from the bulk head to the top of the heater bypass valve - this vac hose runs to a valve: looks like a 2 inch round blac circle with the vac hose connection in the top. disconnect the vac hose and check whether you now get hot flow through your matrix (both pipes hot). If no then
2) trace the pipework from the HBV: there are three hoses that go in different directions. (at the moment I cannot remember which go where but this post may help
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1193594464
it is possible that when they did the HG change they did not get the HBV installation correct.
I think the top left(driver side) goes to the bulkhead (possibly via a small water pump under the header tank), the bottom left does not, and the right hand side is the hot feed from the engine.
If the HBV is connected correctly and without vac applied you are not getting hot flow then I would suspect the heater matrix
Next step will be to flush the matrix by removing the pipes at the bulkhead and connecting a hose up to one: again someone on here has done this before so there is a thread somewhere.
methodical diagnosis is the important thing here: chances are that there is a fix that will not cost anything
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thats great and thanx for your help i will start the diagnosis process and let you know the outcome :)
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ok
ive taken the vac pipe off from the top of the hbv and this resulted in the blowers going totally cold, when i replaced it the blowers went quite warm again, warmer than before i took the pipe off so i took it off again and left for a minute or two and then replaced, the blowers then went nice and warm although i wouldnt say they were as hot as they should be, felt the two alloy pipes under the dash- both red hot, so did the process again, vac pipe off then back on this time only luke warm blowers again >:( so does this point to breaked hbv or heater matrix probs? oh and when i took the vac pipe off i put my thumb over it and it was sucking away nicely.
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Hmm confusing.
Getting both pipes hot seems to suggest that the matrix is getting hot flow.
What bothers me is that you are getting vac when your heaters are set to 'on' The system is set up so that when vac is applied the HBV diverts from the matrix.
If you have climate control, try resetting the servos - somewhere in the manual tells you how to do this.
Also, can you trace the plumbing of the HBV - which pipes go where?
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ok folks
ive had the wipers and scuttle drain off and had a look at the plumbing on the hbv so as follows - the pipe from the back of the engine goes into the inlet of the valve - the top pipe from the outlet of the valve goes down to a tee - the bottom pipe from the outlet goes int the top part of the bulkhead and the bottom pipe from the bulkhead goes into the same tee as the top pipe off the valve :-X :-X
hope that makes sense! i dont have a hand book for the car so i dont know how to reset the climate servos if anyone can help me on that
cheers ian
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ok folks
ive had the wipers and scuttle drain off and had a look at the plumbing on the hbv so as follows - the pipe from the back of the engine goes into the inlet of the valve - the top pipe from the outlet of the valve goes down to a tee - the bottom pipe from the outlet goes int the top part of the bulkhead and the bottom pipe from the bulkhead goes into the same tee as the top pipe off the valve :-X :-X
hope that makes sense! i dont have a hand book for the car so i dont know how to reset the climate servos if anyone can help me on that
cheers ian
You press and hold the Auto and Off buttons for about 5 to 10 seconds and you should here the servos working :y
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great stuff mate thanks a lot
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right ive tried the reset trick and no difference does the plumbing i described for the hbv sound correct?
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ok folks
ive had the wipers and scuttle drain off and had a look at the plumbing on the hbv so as follows - the pipe from the back of the engine goes into the inlet of the valve - the top pipe from the outlet of the valve goes down to a tee - the bottom pipe from the outlet goes int the top part of the bulkhead and the bottom pipe from the bulkhead goes into the same tee as the top pipe off the valve :-X :-X
hope that makes sense! i dont have a hand book for the car so i dont know how to reset the climate servos if anyone can help me on that
cheers ian
muppets! Top of HBV goes to top bulkhead - at least on mine. Swap em over and see
I'm also not convinced that you vac pipes are right. the vac feed to the HBV should be on when the valve diverts - when the climate system is set to full chill. no vac should be applied when it is calling for heat.
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unreal, what a set of jokers! ill swap em over and see what happens. would swapping them cure the fact the temp going quit high and a fair bit of pressure? also the vac pipes are a f)^&*ng maze how would i sort them out if they were incorrect? :o :o :o
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there's a piping diagram on here somewhere MarkDTM I think posted it some time back.
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nice one ill have a look for it. im still a little concerned about the pressure though it does get quite high although no hoses blown or blow off at the expansion bottle cap so maybe im worrying over nowt?
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the cooling system is pressurised on the omega - nothing wrong with it if you are getting pressure when hot. the cap acts as the pressure relief valve.
try here! http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152565204
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ok mate thanks for the reassurance im gonna swap the hoses over at the weekend and see what happens so ill post the results i might well give it a flush through while im at it it wont hurt
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ok folks here we go
i have today done a complete overhaul on the plumbing of the heater pipes and vac pipes to and from the hbv so here goes. the vac pipes were totally wrong, the pipe coming from the vac pump went directly to the hbv and the vac pipe coming back from the bulkhead wasnt connected to anything at all so i have put the pipe from the pump to the ingoing on the bulkhead and connected the pipe coming from the bulkhead to the hbv so i now hav vacuum when the cooling is set and no vac at all when set to hi. also water pipes from the hbv were also incorrect bottom of valve going to top of bulkhead top of valve going to tee peice so ive changed them to. then i did a flush and filled with fresh coolant. the problem im having now is when i start the car with the heaters set on hi the blowers get warm no probs, then i set the climate on lo and get aircon (cold air), then i set back to hi and they stay cold. if i take the vac pipe of the hbv and then replace it the blowers the return to warm again :-? :-? :-? could this mean a knackered or sticky hbv?
yours in frustration
ian
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ok folks here we go
i have today done a complete overhaul on the plumbing of the heater pipes and vac pipes to and from the hbv so here goes. the vac pipes were totally wrong, the pipe coming from the vac pump went directly to the hbv and the vac pipe coming back from the bulkhead wasnt connected to anything at all so i have put the pipe from the pump to the ingoing on the bulkhead and connected the pipe coming from the bulkhead to the hbv so i now hav vacuum when the cooling is set and no vac at all when set to hi. also water pipes from the hbv were also incorrect bottom of valve going to top of bulkhead top of valve going to tee peice so ive changed them to. then i did a flush and filled with fresh coolant. the problem im having now is when i start the car with the heaters set on hi the blowers get warm no probs, then i set the climate on lo and get aircon (cold air), then i set back to hi and they stay cold. if i take the vac pipe of the hbv and then replace it the blowers the return to warm again :-? :-? :-? could this mean a knackered or sticky hbv?
yours in frustration
ian
Sounds like you need a trip to Rufforth next weekend where you'd be able to get advise & be able to compare under bonnets with yours (oooer! )
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i know mate this would be a massive help but sadly im away and cant make it although i would like someone who really knows what they are doing to have a ganders at the old beast as i dont trust anyone at all other than the top legends on here :y :y :y
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so what do any of you think then does the things ive mentioned point to dodgy hbv or is it something to do with the vac pipe not releasing when i switch back to hi, as i said as soon as take the pipe of and then replace it the heaters go warm again
any ideas
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ok is your vac tothe HBV switching on and off as it should?
If so then it is either a duff HBV (wouldn't be the first) or the heater dist unit is playing up.
I'd remove the vac from the HBV, select cold then if your cabin blowers go cool and return to hot when you select heat, that confirms the air dist unit is working. In this case, new HBV
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right ill give that a go, i know that when i select cold the vac comes on and when i select hot it goes off but if i set to hi the air is warm then set to lo air is cold then set back to hi air stays cold, i then take the vac pipe off valve and replace immediatly and air goes warm again :-? :-? :-? :-?
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I'm trying to work out whether it is a sticky HBV or somewhere in the air dist unit. when you try the above, block the vac feed to the HBV as well.
sounds like you're almost fixed: now the downside is that if the previous expert managed to mess up the heater plumbing: what else did they get wrong?
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i know mate this a concern of mine aswell seeing as they did the head gaskets! not sure wether it might be better to sell it and get one from someone on here who knows what they are doing! i love the car itself and it drives great but im just hoping there arnt any more serious problems down there, as i said earlier in the thread it runs at about 97-98 around town but never goes to 100 and the water pipes do get quite pressurised although nothing has blown yet and i can still squeeze them slightly they arnt rock hard, is this normal for the 3ltr v6 lump?
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i know mate this a concern of mine aswell seeing as they did the head gaskets! not sure wether it might be better to sell it and get one from someone on here who knows what they are doing! i love the car itself and it drives great but im just hoping there arnt any more serious problems down there, as i said earlier in the thread it runs at about 97-98 around town but never goes to 100 and the water pipes do get quite pressurised although nothing has blown yet and i can still squeeze them slightly they arnt rock hard, is this normal for the 3ltr v6 lump?
I think so - been a couple of weekssince I started mine up!!! Will check at the weekend. Look like you are nearly fixed
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I know earlier V6's run very hot, mine always has done, but touch wood, have experienced no problems
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thanks mate thats reassuring mine is a 99 t reg and i think its prefacelift so thats good to hear ;D ;D ;D
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ive just had my hand up behind the dash and ive noticed that the heater matrix isnt actually fastened to anything could this be part of my problem? it does move around a bit.
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no idea but it doesn't sound the best to me!!!
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me niether mate but its a rather dash out job to get to the bloody thing nitemare >:( just had a look at a freinds mig its a 2.5 v6 cdx and his plumbing is the same as yours jonathanh, (from the hbv) so changing that back cant have been a bad thing, just need to get some consistancy now but im feeling more and more like hbv is knackered.
dont these things leak when they go wrong tho or is that not in all cases?