Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 05 May 2009, 21:48:37
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Guys,
Today I finished putting the Elite top end back together. All 4 cams in, belt on etc -
Turned over fine by hand. Fired up first time - a few taps (as expected) while the lifters settled, then all seemed good.
I left the car running for an hour on the drive - still ticking over fine, could hardly hear it. Idle VERY slightly unsteady, but it was like that before - (suspect ICV).
Anyway - when cleaning up in the boot - I found - [size=12]a cam follwer [/size] :o
Now - I am certain I fitted 24, and, given how sweet it runs and revs - I can't see how one would be missing -
But on the other hand, I don't recall having any spares (unless it was in the package mutantcav sent me, with the 3.0 cams).
Simple answer. do I need to pop the camcovers back off and see if one is missing - or would it obviously run and sound like a bag of spanners if that was the case?
(I suspect the later, I'm probs paranoid, but would like opinions!) :y
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I think mate that it would sound like a bag full of mexicans having a shindig in there if you had left one out ,and pretty sure it would not run at all. ::)
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I think mate that it would sound like a bag full of mexicans having a shindig in there if you had left one out ,and pretty sure it would not run at all. ::)
My thoughts too - and it's sweet.
It MUST be a spare - I just want someone to agree with me ;D
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it certainly wouldnt run correctly!
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HA HA, dont take my word as gospel james mate, but i think you will be ok.
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I've never stripped one down far enough (or wanted to) althoug I've seen under various cam covers at meets when people have had cam covers done. I suspect that it would still idle OK with a follower missing, I wonder if the cam lobe would reach the top of the valve stem :-/ :-/
I think I'd have to remove the covers again .... just to look & make sure.
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I think mate that it would sound like a bag full of mexicans having a shindig in there if you had left one out ,and pretty sure it would not run at all. ::)
I'm not sure I'd agree. whether the follower is off an inlet or exhaust I reckon there's be enough fuel/exhaust flow through the 1 valve to make it run. There are plenty of 3 valve per pot cars around.
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I wonder if the cam lobe would reach the top of the valve stem :-/ :-/
I think I'd have to remove the covers again .... just to look & make sure.
That's what I'm wondering. If it misses the stem - I guess it would still run, on one valve for inlet/exhaust... :-/
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I wonder if the cam lobe would reach the top of the valve stem :-/ :-/
I think I'd have to remove the covers again .... just to look & make sure.
That's what I'm wondering. If it misses the stem - I guess it would still run, on one valve for inlet/exhaust... :-/
that's what I think. :-/
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you'd be running on 23 valves James i sure it would sound like a sack of spanners ::)
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you'd be running on 23 valves James i sure it would sound like a sack of spanners ::)
I'm not so sure - if the cam lobes misses the stem on the one with a missing follwer - it would still suck squeze bang blow in time - and hence Run OK
It's a question of whether or not the lobe would hit the stem or not
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you'd be running on 23 valves James i sure it would sound like a sack of spanners ::)
why? There's 200+ bhp ..... 1 valve wouldn't be that noticable on tick over ...... assuming that the cam lobe misses the valve stem. :-/
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I think mate that it would sound like a bag full of mexicans having a shindig in there if you had left one out ,and pretty sure it would not run at all. ::)
I'm not sure I'd agree. whether the follower is off an inlet or exhaust I reckon there's be enough fuel/exhaust flow through the 1 valve to make it run. There are plenty of 3 valve per pot cars around.
but they're designed to run as 3 valves per cylinder :P
missing inlet would leave it running very lean on one cylinder surely, and exhaust would be as bad as it wouldn't have enough pressure to fill :-?
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if it was missing a follower than it would either missfire due to lack of fuel in that cylinder or blow exhaust gas into the inlet manifold which i would have thought will bring up a code on the engine managment system.
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you'd be running on 23 valves James i sure it would sound like a sack of spanners ::)
I'm not so sure - if the cam lobes misses the stem on the one with a missing follwer - it would still suck squeze bang blow in time - and hence Run OK
It's a question of whether or not the lobe would hit the stem or not
where is Mark when you need him ::)
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It's a question of whether or not the lobe would hit the stem or not
Just going off Mr Haynes pictures, they certainly look like there's plenty of room. I reckon you'd have heard the expensive noises by now if they don't miss! ;) ;)
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I will not be a happy bunny if I have to strip a camshaft out again ;D
I could swear blind I fitted 24. How odd....
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it would run at idle but would lose power at high revs and you wouldnt hear any difference i would remove cam cover and check james :o :o
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Thinking about it ...... (derrr! :-?) the cam lobe will obviously clear the valve stem, otherwise the lifter would be compressed to almost nothing if they didn't clear each other.
Just guessing .... a compressed lifter is going to e around an inch tall, the lobe only needs a lift of 3/8" or so.
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some handy pics courtesy of MDTM but nothing conclusive i'm afraid :-/
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1236287115/150
have you got a stethoscope to posibly locate the trouble?
tend to agree with markey mark verdict i.e. more noticable at high revs rather than idle :-/
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it would run at idle but would lose power at high revs and you wouldnt hear any difference i would remove cam cover and check james :o :o
Agreed. It would idle quite happily on 3 valves per cylinder as the throttle is restricting the intake airflow to virtually nothing anyway.
Kevin
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it would run at idle but would lose power at high revs and you wouldnt hear any difference i would remove cam cover and check james :o :o
Agreed. It would idle quite happily on 3 valves per cylinder as the throttle is restricting the intake airflow to virtually nothing anyway.
Kevin
Kev - do you agree the cam lobe would also miss the valve stem? :y
(Me thinks covers coming back off, soon :-[ )
It'll be the first notable balls up I can recall making, if I really have left one out!!
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Kev - do you agree the cam lobe would also miss the valve stem? :y
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As I said earlier, they must do if you think if the effective height of even a compressed lifter relative to the lift of a cam.
He who never made a mistake ......... ;) ;) ;) You'll not do it again! :y :y
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Kev - do you agree the cam lobe would also miss the valve stem? :y
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As I said earlier, they must do if you think if the effective height of even a compressed lifter relative to the lift of a cam.
He who never made a mistake ......... ;) ;) ;) You'll not do it again! :y :y
Agreed - everyone is gonna slip up sometime ::) - but I'll only admit it when I pull the covers off and see one missing ;D ;D
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Kev - do you agree the cam lobe would also miss the valve stem? :y
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As I said earlier, they must do if you think if the effective height of even a compressed lifter relative to the lift of a cam.
He who never made a mistake ......... ;) ;) ;) You'll not do it again! :y :y
Agreed - everyone is gonna slip up sometime ::) - but I'll only admit it when I pull the covers off and see one missing ;D ;D
Unfortunately it won't be a 5 minute job fitting it if you have left it out :( as you well know.
I wouldn't admit it here even if I had left it out! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D
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Just seen this one...
I think, and it's only think, that Markey is right. At idle it wouldn't be particularly noticeable.
And yes, it would probably clear the stem.
Covers off I'm afraid James... Even if we all agreed that it would run like a bag of spanners I'd still have to have the covers off for peace of mind ::) ::)
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Just seen this one...
I think, and it's only think, that Markey is right. At idle it wouldn't be particularly noticeable.
And yes, it would probably clear the stem.
Covers off I'm afraid James... Even if we all agreed that it would run like a bag of spanners I'd still have to have the covers off for peace of mind ::) ::)
Yep, peace of mind - they are coming off tomorrow ;D :-[
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Yep, peace of mind - they are coming off tomorrow ;D :-[
I'll keep my fingers crossed that you find 23 24 of them in there! :y :y :y :y :y
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Heel of the cam would miss the valve stem and spring cap but I would have thought that the cam lobe would clout it, making lots of noise.
If you want another reason to take the covers off again then a missing follower would leave an open oil delivery hole with reduced pressure to the cam bearings and other followers as a result.
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As soon as my delivery arrives - I will go to the car and whip the covers off. I am 99% sure all followers are there - but I won't sleep at night until I do ;D
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Right.....if you had one missing you would not get any increased noise and it would not affect the idle!
The reason being.
1) With a follower missing then the cam would not touch the valve top and hence it would just spin in free space with no noise (the lift is 10.2mm and the follower is considerably thicker than this!)
2) One of the inlet or exhaust vales would not open but, its multivale so the engine would still run.
Your likely to loose top end power
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Right.....if you had one missing you would not get any increased noise and it would not affect the idle!
The reason being.
1) With a follower missing then the cam would not touch the valve top and hence it would just spin in free space with no noise (the lift is 10.2mm and the follower is considerably thicker than this!)
2) One of the inlet or exhaust vales would not open but, its multivale so the engine would still run.
Your likely to loose top end power
which is what we said yesterday ..... just put better! :y
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Heel of the cam would miss the valve stem and spring cap but I would have thought that the cam lobe would clout it, making lots of noise.
If you want another reason to take the covers off again then a missing follower would leave an open oil delivery hole with reduced pressure to the cam bearings and other followers as a result.
Didn't think about that :o it would starve the whole head of oil I'd have thought. If there's any possibility that a follower is missing I'd take the covers off and have a look before running under load.
Kevin