Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: doz on 01 May 2009, 22:29:42
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Looks like I couldn't keep away from the call of the MIg I have just purchased a Omega elite 3lt auto estate. It's a 96 on a N. Overal it's pretty tidy. Had a VX replacment engine at 74k miles and now showing 135k. About 3k miles ago the cambelt tensoner let go and wrecked the heads. All rebuilt with new valves etc. Car was fine then it just started running like a right shed. It was stood up for 3 months before muggins here got involved. The car starts ok but it idles like a complete bag of nails pick the revs up to about 1600 rpm it runs on all six. I wasn't confident to drive it like this also the battery wouldn't hold a charge so if it stalled I'd be boned. One of the issues is the exhaust manifold or the down pipe joint on both sides is blowing bad. My problem is. Is it running like a turd because of the exhausts or do you think there's another fault some where. Anybody else have any experince of this? I've gonna plug it in to the old tech1 but where as my cartridge seems the cover it the socket on the car is tech2. Can you use some sort of converter lead? I've paid peanuts for this car so if it's terminal I'll just break it. It's got a wierd number plate which I had valued to day at 400 quid so I'll make some doh on that (I hope)
Yours wishing Vx had stuck the nice easy straight 6 in the Mig
Doz ;)
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with that engine you can use the paperclip test mate :y
no fault code reader needed
link is here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189022687
post the results on here and take it from there :y
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What kind of condition are the plug leads and spark plugs in? Duffed plugs or leads can cause mis-firing.
As can oil in the plug wells - which would mean cam-cover gaskets.
I think they'd be your first port of call :y
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SOunds like cam covers or DIS pack
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Hi. Thanks for the prompt replys. Plug wells are dry no sign of any leakage. Leads look ok but maybe the originals. Seems strange that once the revs pick up it revs ok. .
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one thing to note..apart from other things I can guarantee exhaust leak effects the engines working badly because of sensors..
even a small hole before the sensors change it ..experienced ..
and another common problem which breaks the idle is air leak from the gaskets under the plenum , the gaskets under the breather and from the idle valve..
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same sort of prob with my 3.0l, the egr was duff. blanked it off, runs fine now. :y
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If I were you I would check that your cambelt hasnt jumped a tooth or 4! A similar thing happened to mine recently, ( see my post 'sudden loss of power' ) that was caused by debris from the previous tensioner lurking unseen somwhere.
That also sounded a bit farty when it was running, due I think to blowback from the untimed valves :-[
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cheers guys. If it has jumped a tooth did it bend the valves?
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cheers guys. If it has jumped a tooth did it bend the valves?
Mine didnt but i was very lucky...
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Looks like I couldn't keep away from the call of the MIg I have just purchased a Omega elite 3lt auto estate. It's a 96 on a N. Overal it's pretty tidy. Had a VX replacment engine at 74k miles and now showing 135k. About 3k miles ago the cambelt tensoner let go and wrecked the heads. All rebuilt with new valves etc. Car was fine then it just started running like a right shed. It was stood up for 3 months before muggins here got involved. The car starts ok but it idles like a complete bag of nails pick the revs up to about 1600 rpm it runs on all six. I wasn't confident to drive it like this also the battery wouldn't hold a charge so if it stalled I'd be boned. One of the issues is the exhaust manifold or the down pipe joint on both sides is blowing bad. My problem is. Is it running like a turd because of the exhausts or do you think there's another fault some where. Anybody else have any experince of this? I've gonna plug it in to the old tech1 but where as my cartridge seems the cover it the socket on the car is tech2. Can you use some sort of converter lead? I've paid peanuts for this car so if it's terminal I'll just break it. It's got a wierd number plate which I had valued to day at 400 quid so I'll make some doh on that (I hope)
Yours wishing Vx had stuck the nice easy straight 6 in the Mig
Doz ;)
Try paper clip test as above. It reads engine fault codes. Which will help you diagnose the problem.
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Fault codes shouldn't be a problem. I've got a Tech1 and the Omega cartridge ;)
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ok I've got the fault codes.
It appears I have 4 issues
69 intake air voltage low
19 incorrect rpm signal
94 hall sensor voltage hi
49 battery voltage hi.
This is the order they came off the car. As these motors don't have a distributer I'm surprised the about th hall sensor can anybody explain that one? The battery hi could be down to us needing to jump start the car.
Can anybody shed some light on the issues and what to start checking?
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19 is crank sensor fault - I'd replace that first and then recheck to see if other codes still there. ;)
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silly question. where is it?
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Plug under scuttle rear right hand side (passenger) of plenum, sensor end on passenger side of engine just behind and below oil filter.
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The sensor is down near the oil filter on the side of the engine and held in by one small bolt. The cable then is routed up out of the way of oil and heat behind the exhaust and into the cable tray. I think for your engine there are two types. One with an oval connector to the loom and one with a square one. You need to know which one unless you are lucky enough to have a part number on the sensor itself.
El Varche
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Cheers guys. I'll try and find the plug to suss out which one I have
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Ok I've got the plug and it's the more square shaped one . Where's the best place to get one and are they a lot of dosh?
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The sensor is down near the oil filter on the side of the engine and held in by one small bolt. The cable then is routed up out of the way of oil and heat behind the exhaust and into the cable tray. I think for your engine there are two types. One with an oval connector to the loom and one with a square one. You need to know which one unless you are lucky enough to have a part number on the sensor itself.
El Varche
The new cable should be genuine Vaux and should be routed up out of the way of oil pipes and exhaust...Vaux in their infinite wisdom decided to run the original inbetween the oil cooler pipes!! Cut the ends off the old one leave the cable there if unable to remove...
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Ok time for a update. I have replaced the crank sensor for a genuine part and it made no improvement. So I've done compression test and they are to say the least brillant. Next to no difference and all nice and high. So I've stripped the plugs (look old),leads (look older!!) and the dis pack out. I plan on replacing all 3 items. The fault codes remain the same. One thing I did try was unplugging the camshaft sensor while it was running. This didn't make any difference to running. So If after I've done the dispack etc it dosen't run right I'm well and truely stumped :-/
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Have you checked the valve timing yet?
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Valve timming is correct and as I said the compression is excellent. I would of also thought the compression would be all over the place if the timming is out.
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'dangle berries'!! This has gone tits up big style. I have replaced the crank sensor without improvement. So I replaced the dis pack,leads and plugs without improvement. While I had the plenum off and had access to all the plug holes I carried out a compression test. All cylinders were excellent. I should of really disconnected the ecu to do this but instead I unplugged the injectors. Well when I put it back together I now have 11 fault codes!!! and I can't clear any of them. I don't believe for a second everything which was unplugged has now gone wrong. Think I'm gonna need some help with this one.
69 intake air voltage low
19 incorrect rpm signal
94 hall sensor voltage hi
49 battery voltage hi.
144 immob no signal ( still starts???)
57 idle air control valve volt low
21 TPS volt high
129 EGR feed back volts low
133 intake manifold valve2 volts low
71 intake air high volts
73 maas air flow sensor low
:-/ :-/
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While I've been working on this I came across a pipe and a electrical connection not doing anything under the airbox. The pipe goes through the inner wing while the wire dissappears back to the front of the bumper. I also had a look at the state of the wiring under the inside the ecu box and there appears to be lots of wires joined together I'm not sure if this was done by vauxhall or a bodgeitandscarper
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/dcwo/Photo-0003.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/dcwo/Photo-0005.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/dcwo/Photo-0004.jpg)
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By the look of it I'd say bodgeitandscarper rather than Vauxhall..
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Ok time for another update. I have now replaced the loom and ecu. It looks like the ecu was at fault as most of the fault codes have cleared. The 4 fault codes I have are
144 immobiliser no signal
145 immobiliser wrong signal.
74 mass air high voltage
69 intake air low voltage.
Also the car won't idle less than 2k. I guess I could have air leak but I was wondering if with the EML light on would that raise the idle that high. Oh and bloody ignition switch fell to bits on me :-[
Anybody got any ideas?
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.....
Anybody got any ideas?
Box of matches & a gallon of 4 star! :-? :-? ;D
Use your Carltons!!! :y :y :y
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:( Whilst still struggling,Doz, are you atleas fising on 6 now all the time?
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I meant to say... those wiring pictures looked a disgrace. I'm sure Ive got that "loose wire" connected and if not mistaken somewhere on the multi-ram. That mar solve a couple of your fault codes. I try to have a look at mine and update as soon as pos but dont rely on me too heavily for that as work may not allow for WEEKS unless I get a chance tomorrow.
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Cheers. I'm gonna need all the help I can get with this one. ::)
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Right time to bring you all up to speed on this. I have got to the bottom of the really bad running.
Cambelt was 2 teeth out on two cams, 3 teeth out on 1 and the last one was 4 teeth out!!! how it ran at all I'll never know. All reset now and re-did the compression test and all is fine. PHEW!!!.
However I still have a couple of issues. I still have two fault codes
MAF and Air intake sensor. I've got to pick my new MAF sensor up on Monday but I have replaced the air temp and it's still there. :'(
I'll wait for the MAF before I start chasing wires could the MAF cause the ecu to flag the Air temp as faulty?
The other problem is the car still wants to idle at 2k rpm. I have traced this down to ICV valve being 100% open all the time. I swopped it for another one but it did the same. If you squeeze the ICV hose the idle starts to drop and you can get it all the way down to 600 rpm. So it's not air leak related, for some reason the ECU is telling the ICV to open right up. Now could this be because of the MAF or do you think something else has now gone to poo?
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I am sure if your timing was 3-4 teeth out you would have bent valves :o
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Nope. All 24 still standing straight to attention :y
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Can't see it being 3 or 4 teeth out then :y
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Well it was and it's fine.
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Can't see it being 3 or 4 teeth out then :y
I can, And did. ;) I can vouch for the fact that the 3 litre can run when 4 teeth out at the cam sprockets without bending valves :y The symptoms this car was displaying were very similar to my own experience.
Have you found out WHY it jumped?
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Yea. I found a ball bearing in one of the camshaft wheels. As I have removed and checked all the tensioners and they are ok it could of only come from the previous belt failure. It was doing it's best impression of a hamster in a wheel bless it [smiley=laugh.gif]. I'm just hoping the ECU I have fitted isn't duff now and causing the idle problem :-[ :-[ :-[ but I won't be beat on this one underneath all the grime there's a good car which doesn't deserve to be scrapped or set fire or shoot or driven into a lake ( I have thought of all these options to sort out my problems)
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Yea. I found a ball bearing in one of the camshaft wheels. As I have removed and checked all the tensioners and they are ok it could of only come from the previous belt failure. It was doing it's best impression of a hamster in a wheel bless it [smiley=laugh.gif]. I'm just hoping the ECU I have fitted isn't duff now and causing the idle problem :-[ :-[ :-[ but I won't be beat on this one underneath all the grime there's a good car which doesn't deserve to be scrapped or set fire or shoot or driven into a lake ( I have thought of all these options to sort out my problems)
Thats exactly what happened to mine! And I thought it was a one in a million chance :o
Let both cases be a warning to anyone reparing a v6 after tensioner disintergration to make sure you find ALL the bits :y