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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: chartz on 23 May 2009, 22:00:05

Title: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: chartz on 23 May 2009, 22:00:05
Hi everyone,

Well the title says it all: I get this awful noise, which came suddenly; it's definitely the noise produced by the turbo, but it sounds as if it were 10 times louder than it used to—should—be. It really is ear-piercing. I've checked on the different pipes, air and exhaust, but I can't find anything wrong really. Apart from that, the car works really well, with no power loss.
Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: TheBoy on 23 May 2009, 22:08:18
assuming no air leaks, it could be the bearings, in which case that turbo is not long of this world....
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: chartz on 23 May 2009, 22:12:52
Okay then... Is it normal that the sound is amplified and louder underneath the car, somewhere between the engine and the catalysor? It is virtually not audible over the engine, but very much so outside the car.
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Omegatoy on 23 May 2009, 22:22:23
Hmm you sure the viscous isnt locked on? not doubting you but stranger things have been known to happen, turbo are usually very reliable in my experience? and it will be louder under the car, as thats where it is!!
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: chartz on 23 May 2009, 22:25:16
Thanks.
Viscous in the boot you know! :D Ready for the next sale!!
Off to bed now. I shall be glad to read your comments tomorrow...
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Seth on 23 May 2009, 22:37:46
Without actually hearing this noise, it's obviously difficult to diagnose.

However, a 'whistling' from the turbo is normal on 2.5TDs especially when accelerating.

A few checks you can do with the engine cold:
* Remove the inlet hose, and feel the spindle for movement by gripping the smallish centre nut between the thumb and fore-finger - there should be no discernable movement apparent in any direction.
* Now, look into the inlet - if you can see metallic deposits, then the bearing's definately failing, as the blades are fouling the casing.
* If your happy so far, ensure that the inlet hose is correctly and securely seated to the turbo when refitting.

When the turbo is failing, a 'whooshing' sound is often apparent - let us know how you get on.
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Omegatoy on 23 May 2009, 22:41:37
hmm boost leak is a possibility, woulg give similar syptoms, have you checked pipes intercooler etc? this would make the turbo whistle due to working hard!!!
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Seth on 23 May 2009, 22:45:48
Quote
hmm boost leak is a possibility, woulg give similar syptoms, have you checked pipes intercooler etc? this would make the turbo whistle due to working hard!!!

Good man 'OT' - I forgot to mention these obvious points.
Gotta be worth looking at!

Also, what's the condition of the air filter?
And is the filter-box lid securely clipped in position?
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Turk on 24 May 2009, 04:00:14
I have just got back from changing my sensor injector. That all went to plan. Injector came out with easy. That's the second one now. Silkopen must be good stuff, too much of a coincidence for the second one to have come out with ease and just be down to luck.
Anyhoo, re-assembled everything, started it up and let it idle for a while. Gave it a few revs and as I gave a hefty rev I thought I heard an whistling sound. Did it again and yep, there is a distinct whistle above 4000rpm. Took it for a run and when driving the whistle starts just under 2000rpm and is quite loud.
Methinks me turbo is about to go A.W.O.L  :'(

Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Turk on 24 May 2009, 04:17:33
Chartz, if it is your Turbo that's failing I found this on Fleabay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-2-5TD-TURBO-UNIT_W0QQitemZ390008880336QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5ace573cd0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

There are others on there too.

I have a spare 2.5td that was running sweetly when in regular use, so if mine is throwing a wobbly, I'll use the turbo off that hopefully.

Can the Turbo be changed from above, as it's gonna be difficult to get under my spares car ? 

Code 64 (Injector Pump) and 82 (Sensor Injector) have cleared but 96 (EGR) has re-appeared and after re-fitting the chip I still have the judder just after 1500rpm.

Would the EGR fault be linked to the turbo failing ?
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: chartz on 24 May 2009, 08:53:26
Thank you all.
The sound I get is this (courtesy of Fazeman):

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=817618569573188912&q=bmw+525tds+engine+sound&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

There is no aspiration noise. I will try to do what Sethmate suggests before going any further. I understand that if there is no play, then the turbo is okay. Am I correct?
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Turk on 24 May 2009, 13:03:50
The one in the video sounds ok to me, certainly sounds healthier than mine  ::)
My whistling sound is much more noticable than that. It's loud enough to draw peoples attention if I accellerate.
More of a wheezey whistle that starts from just under 2,000rpm and gets louder as the revs increase but the pitch doesn't change or match in with the revs, it just hits a peak and gets louder with a volume ratio that outweighs the exhaust and engine sound combined.
The whistling sound wouldn't be out of place on a runway just before takeoff.  :o

If it is the turbo, does the whole unit have to be changed or is it just the silver coloured "snail shell" shaped unit that I recognise as a turbo, and is removal from my spares car possible from above only ?
 
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Seth on 24 May 2009, 14:22:00
Quote
The one in the video sounds ok to me, certainly sounds healthier than mine  ::)
My whistling sound is much more noticable than that. It's loud enough to draw peoples attention if I accellerate.
More of a wheezey whistle that starts from just under 2,000rpm and gets louder as the revs increase but the pitch doesn't change or match in with the revs, it just hits a peak and gets louder with a volume ratio that outweighs the exhaust and engine sound combined.
The whistling sound wouldn't be out of place on a runway just before takeoff.  :o

If it is the turbo, does the whole unit have to be changed or is it just the silver coloured "snail shell" shaped unit that I recognise as a turbo, and is removal from my spares car possible from above only ?
 

Are you sure that you haven't disturbed anything on or around the induction system whilst changing that No4 injector?

If the turbo's giving up on you, it must be changed as a complete unit, as in the Ebay photo. We're talking precision engineering here! It's pretty well impossible to access satisfactorily from above only.
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: chartz on 24 May 2009, 15:35:56
"My whistling sound is much more noticable than that. It's loud enough to draw peoples attention if I accelerate."

Me too actually. Of course no video can do it justice (?) :-?
Seriously, listen from 1:50 on for the whistle.
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Turk on 24 May 2009, 18:48:46
Quote
Quote
The one in the video sounds ok to me, certainly sounds healthier than mine  ::)
My whistling sound is much more noticable than that. It's loud enough to draw peoples attention if I accellerate.
More of a wheezey whistle that starts from just under 2,000rpm and gets louder as the revs increase but the pitch doesn't change or match in with the revs, it just hits a peak and gets louder with a volume ratio that outweighs the exhaust and engine sound combined.
The whistling sound wouldn't be out of place on a runway just before takeoff.  :o

If it is the turbo, does the whole unit have to be changed or is it just the silver coloured "snail shell" shaped unit that I recognise as a turbo, and is removal from my spares car possible from above only ?
 

Are you sure that you haven't disturbed anything on or around the induction system whilst changing that No4 injector?

If the turbo's giving up on you, it must be changed as a complete unit, as in the Ebay photo. We're talking precision engineering here! It's pretty well impossible to access satisfactorily from above only.

My whistle from about 2000rpm is better described as a "Wheeeee" that intensifies and gets louder as the revs increase.  It doesn't rise and fall with the engine speed like the one in the video. It stops as soon I decelerating or hold at a neutral throttle position.

All I removed yesterday was the inlet manifold and related pipes etc to change the injector.
As soon as I started it up and raised the revs there was the "Wheeee".
It was fine when I drove over to do the job :-? 
Can't think what it could be on the inlet side of things.  What's the torque setting for No. 4 Injector ?
   
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Omegatoy on 24 May 2009, 18:51:05
sounds liike a boost leak to me!!! did you use new inlet gaskets? cos boost escaping from inlet sounds like the high pitched squeql you have described!!
dont ask me how i know!! >:(
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Turk on 24 May 2009, 19:18:42
When stationary and revving, the sound starts at around 4000rpm.
When driving it starts at just below 2000rpm, "WHEEEEE" [size=8](Ahh, shut up !)[/size] and, er...no, I didn't use new gaskets[size=8]. (Well the originals looked alright to me ::))
[/size]
I did use the manifold from my spare engine as I had cleaned out all the gunge.
Thinking about it, it did sound different, like it wasn't quite tight, when I was giving it a few firm thumps to make sure it was seating right before final tightening of the nuts.  Maybe the manifold has slightly deformed to fit it's original engine. It has done 225k miles.
Think I'll clean out the original manifold and re-fit that tomorrow.
64 and 82 have cleared but 96 (EGR) is back  :-?
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Seth on 24 May 2009, 19:38:56
Quote
sounds liike a boost leak to me!!! did you use new inlet gaskets? cos boost escaping from inlet sounds like the high pitched squeql you have described!!
dont ask me how i know!! >:(

That's right 'OT' - it's on the 'blow', rather than the 'suck' side.

Saying that, have you checked/looked into the turbo inlet yet?
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Turk on 24 May 2009, 22:20:19
Just taken it for a run and I'm quietly optimistic (but extremely hopefull) that it may be down to using the inlet manifold off my other engine. The "wheee" sound seems to hit a peak and stay there, yet the speed & rpm continue to increase.
 
Oh...and now code 64 is back again, along with 96. Yeah, Whatever !!

Chartz, have you examined your turbo spindle and inlet yet ?
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: chartz on 25 May 2009, 05:40:07
Seems fine. Maybe a micro-leak somewhere along the exhaust. I'm stuck here.
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Seth on 25 May 2009, 14:50:26
Quote
Quote
Quote
The one in the video sounds ok to me, certainly sounds healthier than mine  ::)
My whistling sound is much more noticable than that. It's loud enough to draw peoples attention if I accellerate.
More of a wheezey whistle that starts from just under 2,000rpm and gets louder as the revs increase but the pitch doesn't change or match in with the revs, it just hits a peak and gets louder with a volume ratio that outweighs the exhaust and engine sound combined.
The whistling sound wouldn't be out of place on a runway just before takeoff.  :o

If it is the turbo, does the whole unit have to be changed or is it just the silver coloured "snail shell" shaped unit that I recognise as a turbo, and is removal from my spares car possible from above only ?
 

Are you sure that you haven't disturbed anything on or around the induction system whilst changing that No4 injector?

If the turbo's giving up on you, it must be changed as a complete unit, as in the Ebay photo. We're talking precision engineering here! It's pretty well impossible to access satisfactorily from above only.

My whistle from about 2000rpm is better described as a "Wheeeee" that intensifies and gets louder as the revs increase.  It doesn't rise and fall with the engine speed like the one in the video. It stops as soon I decelerating or hold at a neutral throttle position.

All I removed yesterday was the inlet manifold and related pipes etc to change the injector.
As soon as I started it up and raised the revs there was the "Wheeee".
It was fine when I drove over to do the job :-? 
Can't think what it could be on the inlet side of things.  What's the torque setting for No. 4 Injector ?
   

Torque setting:
Injector to cylinder-head is 65Nm.
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Turk on 25 May 2009, 22:56:05
Found the cause of my "Wheee" sound.
http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv327/Turkpix/DSC00835.jpg
So, er...yes, this may have caused a teeny weeny boost leak. Omegatoy does it again :y
Cleaned out original manifold, re-fitted and all is hunkydory at Turksville Tractor Centre.
Well, apart from all codes now clear...except 64...but that's for another thread.
Sethsmate, thanks for the torque setting :y 
Chartz, any joy with tracing the leak ?
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Omegatoy on 25 May 2009, 23:08:37
Aw shucks :-[

fresh break tho, didnt you hear it snap? or crack? never mind its sorted now!! :y
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Turk on 25 May 2009, 23:29:31
Didn't hear anything at all. Must have done the job 10-15 times over the 8 odd years I've had Migs and the only thing different this time was that it didn't sound seated properly as I lightly thumped it down to check it was seating properly before tightening it up.
Anyhoo, all sorted my side.
Not sure how Chartz is getting on, so don't go far !  ;D 
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: p j morgan on 26 May 2009, 00:01:49
well done turk another good job done :y
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Turk on 26 May 2009, 00:05:28
Quote
well done turk another good job done :y

As long as someone points me in the right direction,  I'm usually ok  ;D
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: chartz on 27 May 2009, 13:32:16
Hi,

Well this morning no more whistling...
The car works as it should, with only the usual—and normal—discrete bit of whistling noise from the turbo.
If something is indeed broken à la Turk, it fixed itself up! Anyway, Turk's noise must have been very different from mine.
Conclusion: help!
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Turk on 27 May 2009, 22:22:58
I had more of a wheezing "Wheee" sound and didn't rise and fall with the engine speed. Bleedin' loud tho :D

If it's gone, thank the fairies, and give it an oil and filter change, unless it's been done very recently. Having said that, it would do no harm to give it a change even if it was done recently, a couple of short sharp oil changes will only flush out any baddies lurking around. 
4.5k miles absolute maximum between changes to keep 'em sweet.  :y   
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: chartz on 28 May 2009, 17:49:56
Hello to all,

Problem solved!
The culprit was the exhaust manifold gasket (the one with the heat shield) which was cracked. Cost: £50.

See http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HA01&mospid=47379&btnr=11_1201&hg=11&fg=50&lang=en part n°2

Thanks for your support!
Title: Re: Turbo high-pitched whining noise [2.5 TD]
Post by: Seth on 28 May 2009, 17:52:12
Quote
Hello to all,

Problem solved!
The culprit was the exhaust manifold gasket (the one with the heat shield) which was cracked. Cost: £50.

See http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HA01&mospid=47379&btnr=11_1201&hg=11&fg=50&lang=en part n°2

Thanks for your support!

No probs buddy!