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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 April 2009, 21:56:53

Title: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 April 2009, 21:56:53
We need to discuss your rear donut bushes and lively back end!
Title: Re: Hydraulic tappet noise
Post by: feeutfo on 02 April 2009, 03:14:21
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3.2s dont run well on locust juice.
 Mine does tap a little bit its mostly gone by the time its warm.

If its in time with engine revs when warm i wonder if a cam cap bolt is loose? But wait for a more experienced member to advise i dont want you pulling the calm covers off on my say so, i am a bit paranoid about these thing.

We need to discuss your rear donut bushes and lively back end!

We do? I hope your sitting comfortably. Maybe i should come visit, although Kevin has my fronts at the mo ? Do you still have the special tool?
Title: Re: Hydraulic tappet noise
Post by: feeutfo on 02 April 2009, 10:55:37
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3.2s dont run well on locust juice.
 Mine does tap a little bit its mostly gone by the time its warm.

If its in time with engine revs when warm i wonder if a cam cap bolt is loose? But wait for a more experienced member to advise i dont want you pulling the calm covers off on my say so, i am a bit paranoid about these thing.

We need to discuss your rear donut bushes and lively back end!

We do? I hope your sitting comfortably. Maybe i should come visit, although Kevin has my fronts at the mo ? Do you still have the special tool?
Mark?
Title: Re: Hydraulic tappet noise
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 10:57:20
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3.2s dont run well on locust juice.
 Mine does tap a little bit its mostly gone by the time its warm.

If its in time with engine revs when warm i wonder if a cam cap bolt is loose? But wait for a more experienced member to advise i dont want you pulling the calm covers off on my say so, i am a bit paranoid about these thing.

We need to discuss your rear donut bushes and lively back end!

We do? I hope your sitting comfortably. Maybe i should come visit, although Kevin has my fronts at the mo ? Do you still have the special tool?
Mark?


Yes, the special tool has been permanently 're-homed'

I have checked my re-bushes and they have worked out to and the back end is bloody awful.

So I am going to try some different install methods nad various lubes to see which is best.

I should add, you will Not get the rear rubber bushes in fully without lube.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 02 April 2009, 11:22:42
Ah i see, Thankyou for what is a timely intervention. I was about to spend 400 plus on a new set of tyres to help sort this out. I am certain Falken 912s are inclined to tram lining as i have Kevins Woods Dunlops on the front at the mo and the front is much better,  the back is still poor as you would expect. Although Kevin and others dont find then as bad it seems.

Must admit i havent checked the donuts recently but i havent noticed any worsening in handeling since i pushed then back in again. I will check again.

Wondered about evo stick applied and fitted wet. But unsure if it would allow enough time to install before it went off, and if it would then dry fully without contact to the air once installed and fully home. Removal would be a mare though....?
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 11:28:08
What I have found is that although the bush appears to be fully in, its not!. The top half is not fully in the cup and hence its this that pushes the bush back out again.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 02 April 2009, 11:50:35
maybe apply lube to the narrower upper part of the cup but not the lower wider portion. I noticed, as i am sure you have, the recess does not mirror the shape of the bush exactly, the last half or third of the depth is narrower hence the problem.... i guess?
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 11:57:58
Yes, and I suspect that as a result of it not being fully in, the top holf of the mount can move around in the metal housing.

Perhaps Matchless (currently reading this topic I see), can add commnt on how he lubed his bushes for install.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 02 April 2009, 12:36:57
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... Although Kevin and others dont find then as bad it seems

Indeed not. They were bl**dy terrible the first time I drove it but I suspect the tyres have "bedded-in" to my setup now (different camber perhaps?) and having played a little on the way to work I wouldn't be disappointed with the Falkens at all now. In fact, had Chrisgixxer shelled out that £400 I might have made him an offer ;).

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Wondered about evo stick applied and fitted wet. But unsure if it would allow enough time to install before it went off, and if it would then dry fully without contact to the air once installed and fully home. Removal would be a mare though....?

How about silicone bathroom sealant or something? Slippery enough when wet, albeit unpleasant stuff to work with, and not impossible to remove again when set.

Kevin
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 02 April 2009, 12:58:51
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... Although Kevin and others dont find then as bad it seems

Indeed not. They were bl**dy terrible the first time I drove it but I suspect the tyres have "bedded-in" to my setup now (different camber perhaps?) and having played a little on the way to work I wouldn't be disappointed with the Falkens at all now. In fact, had Chrisgixxer shelled out that £400 I might have made him an offer ;).

Quote
Wondered about evo stick applied and fitted wet. But unsure if it would allow enough time to install before it went off, and if it would then dry fully without contact to the air once installed and fully home. Removal would be a mare though....?

How about silicone bathroom sealant or something? Slippery enough when wet, albeit unpleasant stuff to work with, and not impossible to remove again when set.

Kevin
if an offer was made i might splash out anyway, what did you have in mind?

 i find yours better except in noise and price, although the noise only seems worse at low 30-40 speeds, strange. :-/
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 12:59:39
I dont think we will need anything that sticks, we just need to ensure that the upper tapered section gets fully home!
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: TheBoy on 02 April 2009, 18:17:34
TB watching this thread with interest ::)
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Pitchfork on 02 April 2009, 19:08:37
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I dont think we will need anything that sticks, we just need to ensure that the upper tapered section gets fully home!
KY!!! :y
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: CBH on 02 April 2009, 19:10:59
I used to use KY on windscreen rubbers because it was water based and did not rot the rubber seal.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 02 April 2009, 19:15:48
just been out and checked, i havent removed the triangular plate but they dont appear to have moved since i last re seated them. The back edge, near the rear wheel, is about as far home/in as its likely to get but the front edge is showing a 2 or 3mil gap(also going by feel) from the under edge of the bush rim to the trailing arm. Strangley, almost exactly the same both sides.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Jimbob on 02 April 2009, 20:11:40
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TB watching this thread with interest ::)


And JB

Had my rear bearing not been a bastard, I too could be nursing a lively back end  ;D
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 02 April 2009, 20:23:48
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I dont think we will need anything that sticks, we just need to ensure that the upper tapered section gets fully home!
KY!!! :y

Used to use hair spray on the bar grips on me Bmw. Nice and slippery when installing and set like glue fairly quick to hold em in place. All fine til it rained and found myself sat in the middle of the road with one bar grip and no bike.   ;D
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Matchless on 02 April 2009, 21:31:30
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I dont think we will need anything that sticks, we just need to ensure that the upper tapered section gets fully home!
KY!!! :y

Used to use hair spray on the bar grips on me Bmw. Nice and slippery when installing and set like glue fairly quick to hold em in place. All fine til it rained and found myself sat in the middle of the road with one bar grip and no bike.   ;D

I heard from an accident investigator about a young lad in Cambridge who wrapped masking tape around 7/8" bars to make 1" sponge grips fit. All was OK until it rained one day and as he left college to go home he turned 90 left into a lampost, the masking tape had gone soggy and one grip slid off and was still in his (dead) hand.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Matchless on 02 April 2009, 21:40:44
I didnt have much sucess trying to press-in Carlton bushes, they just wanted to pop out again. I used old fashioned green Fairy soap applied to the housing and the leading edge of the bush. Pressing them in got then to seat OK but they popped out after an hour or so, I found that walloping them in with a 2Lb ball pein seemed to work. I guess the shock unstuck the rubber from the housing and let the bush take up its correct shape wheras pressing them in just tended to bend the rubber backwards so when it relaxed the bush slid out again.
I made the mistake of trying to do this job on ramps, as soon as I undid the bolts the axle moved nearly 2" and it took ratchet straps to get it back in line. Bruises lasted over a week.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: iainb on 02 April 2009, 21:53:19
Not sure if this will help in this case.
 But in manufacturing when we need to fix rubber to metal we use dilute screen wash as a lubricant as its bio degradeable and wont affect the rubber long term.
Iain
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 02 April 2009, 23:11:52
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Quote
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I dont think we will need anything that sticks, we just need to ensure that the upper tapered section gets fully home!
KY!!! :y

Used to use hair spray on the bar grips on me Bmx(Edited, ment Bmx not Bmw   :-[  ) . Nice and slippery when installing and set like glue fairly quick to hold em in place. All fine til it rained and found myself sat in the middle of the road with one bar grip and no bike.   ;D

I heard from an accident investigator about a young lad in Cambridge who wrapped masking tape around 7/8" bars to make 1" sponge grips fit. All was OK until it rained one day and as he left college to go home he turned 90 left into a lampost, the masking tape had gone soggy and one grip slid off and was still in his (dead) hand.
Edited, ment Bmx not Bmw   :-[  
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 02 April 2009, 23:17:54
anyone know what the vx dealer workshop software says about installing these? Tis is it?


scratch that, im sure you would have checked, its obviously of no use. :(
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 12 April 2009, 00:55:37
Had a chance yet Mark....?   ;)  Bit late in the day, but ill forget again if i leave it.... ::)
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 April 2009, 07:48:11
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Had a chance yet Mark....?   ;)  Bit late in the day, but ill forget again if i leave it.... ::)


nope, maybe one night this week.

The TIS info is shite..
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 12 April 2009, 11:20:35
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Had a chance yet Mark....?   ;)  Bit late in the day, but ill forget again if i leave it.... ::)


nope, maybe one night this week.

The TIS info is shite..

It is in deed, managed to have a peak at tis, special tool for fitting and removal, not sure how the removal tool works with the rubber still in the bush cup.(mine had come free so made removal easier with the rubber removed) if you push through to the chasis with a puller it just pulls the arm away from the body.

Any thoughts? Koz if i am to reseat mine i will have to get them out intact first. They are well in bar the last couple of mill.

Anyway, dont want to pester, i know you busy.  
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: TheBoy on 12 April 2009, 13:22:22
Mrs TheBoy's dad made a tool for pulling bushes and reinserting them into the swing arms on the back of his Audi - simple affair with threaded rods etc.

If he's still got it (he'd probably stripped it down and reused parts!), I could possibly get a picture so you can see how to make one.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 12 April 2009, 19:22:11
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Mrs TheBoy's dad made a tool for pulling bushes and reinserting them into the swing arms on the back of his Audi - simple affair with threaded rods etc.

If he's still got it (he'd probably stripped it down and reused parts!), I could possibly get a picture so you can see how to make one.

Worth a look J,if you have time and he still has it... I have a puller as i say, and used it to pull the cup out. But it wont work with the rubber in. Have thought of bridgeing across the face of the bush so the puller centre bolt has something to push on. But ill need much bigger pullers for that to work and a big U shaped something or other to span the bush and still allow it to come out.

 Could try the claw hammer method first i suppose but i bent my metal shafted claw hammer getting the last ones out, beleive it or not.

But would be interesting either way.  :y
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: 000jonboy on 12 April 2009, 22:06:38
how about trying some silicone grease haven't tried it on bushes before but works well on drain pipes ! :)
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 12 April 2009, 22:49:12
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how about trying some silicone grease haven't tried it on bushes before but works well on drain pipes ! :)

tried that (after a fight with them dry and wouldnt go in) they squidged out quicker than a bar of soap.... :o
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: stevief on 14 April 2009, 13:12:33
Tuppence worth only, has anyone tried soaking the bushes in hot water for a bit before installing to soften the rubber enough to allow it to relax as it goes into the seat.

Had to do this with elastomer seals at work although you had to be pretty quick to get them in before they cooled right down.

Steve
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 April 2009, 14:27:36
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Mrs TheBoy's dad made a tool for pulling bushes and reinserting them into the swing arms on the back of his Audi - simple affair with threaded rods etc.

If he's still got it (he'd probably stripped it down and reused parts!), I could possibly get a picture so you can see how to make one.


Will make no odds, I have the genuine tool and it wont insert them either
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Dazzler on 14 April 2009, 16:44:48
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Mrs TheBoy's dad made a tool for pulling bushes and reinserting them into the swing arms on the back of his Audi - simple affair with threaded rods etc.

If he's still got it (he'd probably stripped it down and reused parts!), I could possibly get a picture so you can see how to make one.


Will make no odds, I have the genuine tool and it wont insert them either
Then what chance do we have of doing this job :(

I think mine may need doing soon to :'(
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 14 April 2009, 18:26:46
what does tis say re removal? I dont have it in front of me. I ask for 2 reasons,
1 i need to get mine out to re fit as said.
2 if a method or tool could be found to remove if they where glued in, we could then glue them and leave to set over night or what ever. A wet glue would allow them to slide in and set holding them fast. How ever this would be useless if they could not be removed later. I did suspect that mine may have had a contact style adhesive holding them in, but on inspection the hole in the arm had no sign, it was spotlessly clean.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 April 2009, 18:30:46
As said, its not a problem with removal or insertion....the problem is they are not being inserted fully home and so they slowly work out.

The method I plan to try is to remove the plast and upper rubber. Then place some small bits of wood between the mount and the body work, re-insert the centre bolt and tighten it up.

I will then use a dead blow hammer to shock the rubber whilst tightening the bolt to get it fully home
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Dazzler on 14 April 2009, 18:42:33
Watching with much interest ;)
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: eddie on 14 April 2009, 22:44:13
Mmmmmmmm! Donuts!   I,ve been watching this one with interest,as I think mine are not too clever.

I remember having a similar job done on a Scorpio (Hatch Granada),it involved using two trolley jacks,one under the car and one under a partly inserted bush lubed with 'fairy'. The jack supporting the car was released and the weight of the car on the bush did the rest.

I was also just wondering if leaving the Bush in the Freezer for 24hrs might help by shrinking it a bit?

eddie.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 15 April 2009, 00:48:40
trouble is they need to compress to fit in, which they cant do when frozen. I had a trolly jack under the bush and jacked it up hoping it would go in at one stage. Little did i know, it just lifted the car up in the air, still didnt go in more than half way iirc.

Problem is (as i see it anyway) is the donut is not the same shape as the hole in the arm. The bush (basically) has parallel sides top to bottom. The hole in the arm has parallel sides to about half depth, at which point it tapers in by about 7 mill (at a guess) so, as you press the bush in its fairly easy until it gets half way in, but gets harder as it has to compress its width by a total of 14 mill(or whatever it is) to overcome the taper  in order to seat fully home.

 From Marks description, whats happening is the rubber is gripping/deforming in the tapered part of the hole and not compressing/sliding to the full depth. So when you release the clamp/pressure it forces itself partly out again, sometimes over a period of a couple days, sometimes, if you use silicon grease it squidges out quicker than you can get the clamp (or whatever method) back on again.

I cleaned off the silicon and re fitted, a couple of days later the car felt crap at the back. I checked and forced them in again. They are now in bar a couple of mill or so on the forward facing edge.

Thats how I see it anyway.

My original thread, http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1227822287/13
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: VX1 on 15 April 2009, 13:53:46
Well I am hoping to do this when at the York meet so I can do a comprehensive guide on how to do these bushes with photo's.

Paul :y
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 April 2009, 13:57:10
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Well I am hoping to do this when at the York meet so I can do a comprehensive guide on how to do these bushes with photo's.

Paul :y
Do I need to bring 'the tool' then?
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Tonka. on 18 April 2009, 08:23:06
Just an idea! What about the white gunk tyre fitters use?
Nice and slippy and dries afterwards  ;) :y
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 18 April 2009, 13:07:31
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Just an idea! What about the white gunk tyre fitters use?
Nice and slippy and dries afterwards  ;) :y

like your thinking.. :y..not sure on drying time, would have to be dry before releasing the clamp.

But i think Marks going to force it back in rather than remove and refit.

tyre soap may be worth a try if fitting from scratch. I'm thinking "paint" it on the inner tapered section of the cup only???? then insert the bush as is, then leave over night....maybe :-/

ps anyone know the torque settings for the 4 bolts, esp the centre bolt?  ::)
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Tonka. on 18 April 2009, 15:20:54
Thats it! Tyre soap. Couldn't think of its name for the life of me  ::)
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 April 2009, 17:27:47
These ideas all have one floor....the fundamental thing we have not managed yet is to get the bushes fully inserted!
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Matchless on 18 April 2009, 20:42:31
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These ideas all have one floor....the fundamental thing we have not managed yet is to get the bushes fully inserted!

I did. Dont know what all the fuss is about.
I do remember lots of bruises and a large persuader though.
And old fashioned solid Fairy.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Tonka. on 18 April 2009, 21:15:04
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These ideas all have one floor....

Like a bungalow.............

Sorry, couldn't help myself  :-X
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 18 April 2009, 22:40:31
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These ideas all have one floor....the fundamental thing we have not managed yet is to get the bushes fully inserted!

I did. Dont know what all the fuss is about.
I do remember lots of bruises and a large persuader though.
And old fashioned solid Fairy.

So what ever method to get them in so far, plus fairy and a big bat?
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 09 May 2009, 16:38:22
right, going to have a look at this today/tommorow.

Did any body have any luck(Mark)? York meet was mentioned.... :-/
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: doz on 10 May 2009, 06:08:06
I've not done the donut bushes on the back of a mig before but I've done plenty on Carltons and understand they are the same. A little trick you can use to help the bush in is turn the triangle shaped plate upside down and use it to push the bush in. Also as mentioned before. Use a hammer to "shock" the bush in by hitting all round the edge of the bush helps. I have never had one work it's way out. As for lube. If I was really stuck (no pun intended) I would use proper rubber grease.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 10 May 2009, 17:09:45
right. Mark, your method/theory does not work, not on mine anyway. Closest i got was to bolt the bush in minus the plate and with 20 mill spaces behind the arm, and stick a jack on it. The the bush was fully home, until i released the jack, and it just returned to its origingal position. You can belt 7 shades out of it if you like but it wont go in any more, not and stay there anyway.

I have now removed the bush and lubed with talk, nfg, wont go in, soapy water no good either.

Beginning to wonder if its the bush, they are from first line. Looks like the rubber is rucking up as its forced in....ffs. :-(



Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 11 May 2009, 08:10:22
tire soap next i reckon.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Jimbob on 11 May 2009, 08:15:28
The thought occurs.....


These are Carlton Bushes cos they are better and 'the same size'

What if they were changed for a reason, and these will never fit properly?

Has anyone done a proper side to side comparrison?
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 11 May 2009, 08:38:58
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The thought occurs.....


These are Carlton Bushes cos they are better and 'the same size'

What if they were changed for a reason, and these will never fit properly?

Has anyone done a proper side to side comparrison?

Only visually, i had a pair of each, and fitted the carlton ones as they looked the same bar the void holes. Didnt measure i must admit. Also i presume Mark is fitting omega bushes, i think, and still having a problem.

However, having driven Kevin Woods mv6 which has stock and original rear bushes and after market £50 wishbones its clearly not necessary to fit firmer bushes, just better suspension and different tires, his car drove far better/straighter. I am in the process of fitting mv6 suspension.

 So if its not necessary and being a pain there would be sense in fitting stock rear bushes, if Mark where not having fitting issues also....


Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Jimbob on 11 May 2009, 08:46:57
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Quote
The thought occurs.....


These are Carlton Bushes cos they are better and 'the same size'

What if they were changed for a reason, and these will never fit properly?

Has anyone done a proper side to side comparrison?

Only visually, i had a pair of each, and fitted the carlton ones as they looked the same bar the void holes. Didnt measure i must admit. Also i presume Mark is fitting omega bushes, i think, and still having a problem.

However, having driven Kevin Woods mv6 which has stock and original rear bushes and after market £50 wishbones its clearly not necessary to fit firmer bushes, just better suspension and different tires, his car drove far better/straighter. I am in the process of fitting mv6 suspension.

 So if its not necessary and being a pain there would be sense in fitting stock rear bushes, if Mark where not having fitting issues also....



Think Mark has the Carlton ones as well  :-/
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 11 May 2009, 08:56:47
oh, ok. Maybe then. Unless others have had trouble fitting omega ones???
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Iain on 11 May 2009, 09:11:43
Ive just read these 4 pages and now im turning on the gas oven..... :'(



Mine need done!! :'(

I pretty sure i did these bushes on a Senny a few years ago,and i dont remember having too much trouble,im sure i used a trolley jack and a piece of wood to jack them into place.....

Maybe the Carlton/Senator ones are just slightly different after all??
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: doz on 11 May 2009, 10:03:25
I really think you should try a genuine bush and see if that cures it.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Iain on 11 May 2009, 10:05:29
A GM part for an Omega rather than Carlton do you mean Doz?
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: doz on 11 May 2009, 10:11:56
I think you need to go back to basics. I'd try a standard Mig bush if that fits then you know what the issue is.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: lee4206 on 11 May 2009, 21:37:25
I think it must be the bushes your using as when i did mine last year i got the solid bushes from eurocarparts sprayed them with white grease put them in and there still fully home.  I used the upturned triangular plate to insert them with a high powered air gun and that seemed to pull them in no probs.
lee
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 12 May 2009, 00:15:59
you could be right then by the round of it. Ill give the tire soap a go and if that dont work, Gm omega bushes it is.
Wonder what Mark has exactly? GM carlton i presume? As opposed to first line carlton efforts that i have, Mark?

Thanks for input guys by the way. :-)
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Iain on 12 May 2009, 11:05:06
Looking on with interest on this mine need done....

I was going to go for Carlton/Senator ones but i dont think i will bother..knowing GM as we all do,they probably made the 2 different bushes just very very slightly longer/shorter thinner/thicker etc
Not so you would notice by eye but enough to cause problem when fitting them....

Im now thinking,what is the difference between the 2? is it worth the hassle,i reckon the Carlton/Senator ones will be a bit stiffer maybe but,my thinking now is......
My bushes by the look of them a original factory fit ones and the car is a 2002,so thats now 7 years old......if i put on replacement Omega ones then, going by the original ones they should be ok for 6/7 years?
and by that time i probably wont have the car anyway...

Im not really fussed about slightly stiffening up the back end, for what i use the car for its perfectly adequate as it is with factory set up.....

Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 20 May 2009, 07:40:50
right.Genuine Omega bush fitted(drivers side only so far). No problem went in and has stayed in after 24 hours. will check over the next couple of days. Can tell by driving it that its behaving.

I have compared the Gm omega bush to the first line Carlton Bush and they are different. The Body of the bush sits much further down the central spacer on the carlton bush. So no suprise it pulled itself out.

Why didnt i spot it/check before fitting? Well the originals where in two halfs and buggered, and the first line omega bush didnt look that much different to the the first line carlton bush from memory. Certainly was not much different comparing the two first line items, the vx omega bush looks different again it seems.

So fitting guide as follows.
Use genuine Gm Omega bushes and press in using the upside down plate method. The end..!

Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Jimbob on 20 May 2009, 08:09:04
Anyone want to buy some carlton bushes  :-[


Glad its sorted, and amazed I came up with the theory  ;D
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 20 May 2009, 09:13:45
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Anyone want to buy some carlton bushes  :-[


Glad its sorted, and amazed I came up with the theory  ;D

Think there may be a few sets going spare going by some of the names in this thread.

Could do with the ultimate proof by comparing genuine parts though? First line could have given me any old crap. Wouldnt be unusual.

 Or are we saying carlton bushes definately dont fit?

Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Jimbob on 20 May 2009, 09:18:29
Think the question is...Has anyone had total success with the carlton bushes, if so from what source.

Could also be photo time of what we all have for comparrisons.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 20 May 2009, 09:28:12
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Think the question is...Has anyone had total success with the carlton bushes, if so from what source.

Could also be photo time of what we all have for comparrisons.

Yes. I have a pic. Will post tonight, hopefully, with the lap top.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 20 May 2009, 09:32:49
Glad to hear the saga is coming to a close.  :y

Oh, and I've noticed my rear bushes have started creaking. :-X

Kevin
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Dazzler on 20 May 2009, 09:32:49
Glad its sorted Chris.
Mark does say always use GM with suspension parts ::)
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 20 May 2009, 11:51:33
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Glad its sorted Chris.
Mark does say always use GM with suspension parts ::)
Gm parts.... and for the correct car? :-)

Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 24 May 2009, 09:19:50
pic as promised. Gm omega on the left, first line carlton on the right.

(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/18052009582.jpg)
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Jimbob on 24 May 2009, 09:43:39
The one on the right is what I have a pair of awaiting fitting  :'(
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Andy B on 24 May 2009, 09:44:44
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The one on the right is what I have a pair of awaiting fitting  :'(

Looks like you need a Caarlton to fit them to then Jim!  ::)  ::)  :y
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Jimbob on 24 May 2009, 09:51:35
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The one on the right is what I have a pair of awaiting fitting  :'(

Looks like you need a Caarlton to fit them to then Jim!  ::)  ::)  :y


not falling for that again.

Still havent forgotton the time I found some corn plasters....so bought some shoes a size to small so i could use em  ;D
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: Andy B on 24 May 2009, 09:56:23
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......
not falling for that again.

Still havent forgotton the time I found some corn plasters....so bought some shoes a size to small so i could use em  ;D

 ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 24 May 2009, 14:31:02
just wondering where this piece or oof folk law came from? seen several mentions of fitting carlton bushes, would hope somebody has actually tried them with some sucess....?
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: TECHNOPUG on 28 May 2009, 15:18:13
I've been following this thread with interest as I'm plannning on replacing all of my suspension in then next couple of months. I have no experience of replacing the bushes, however, one thought has crossed my mind. The Carlton/Senator bushes won't push fully home because they won't compress enough. The Omega ones fit fine. Both appear identical. Carlton/Senator are solid and considered uprated compared to the hollow Omega bushes. Is it not then the case that the Omega ones fit BECAUSE they are hollow and therefore allow enough compression in the rubber to push fully home? I'd wager that the Carlton/Senator cups are everso slightly different in shape to the Omegas, meaning that the solid bushes can fit. Maybe someone will get a chance to try the Omega bushes in a Carlton/Senator and discover that the bushes don't stay home because they are too loose?

  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: feeutfo on 28 May 2009, 16:48:57
look closely at the pic on previouis page. Note the hight the bush sits at on the spacer moulded into the middle of the bush. The two are differant.

When fitted i could get both bushes fairly well home...but due to the position the bush is moulded to the spacer it worked its way out.

See the pic. Baring in mind the bush fits in the car upside down to the how they are shown. The carlton bush is set 10 mill ish further down the spacer and is roughly where the bush works its way out too, ie 10 mill from the cup.

Unless you want to experiment, i think its safe to assume carlton bushes dont fit.

Also, having driven Kevin Woods car, its clear that a perpetly well handeling car is possible with omega parts. Iirc if has £50 a pair wishbones and the car drove perfectly straight compared to mine and his front tires are/where due for replacment.

My advice, stick to omega bushes. Hth. :-)
Title: Re: Chris Gixers rear bushes!
Post by: TECHNOPUG on 29 May 2009, 13:37:40
Can't see the pics at work.....will have to take a look when I get home :)

My car drives straight and true, no wandering or tramlining. It does, bump, creak, groan and rumble though  ;D  You can also feel the suspension move at the front under sudden braking - I suspect worn wishbone bushes? I plan to replace rear springs (shocks already done) rear donut bushes, ARB bushes, front springs/shocks, wishbones, drop-links, steering idler and front ARB bushes in one hit. Then it just needs a new clucth and a cambelt and it'll be as good as.......as a 1 year old ex-plod! lol!  :y