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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: unlucky alf on 06 October 2008, 21:59:55

Title: viscous fan
Post by: unlucky alf on 06 October 2008, 21:59:55
i hope this is a simple one, is it normal on a tractor that when the viscose fan fully locks when in traffic it sounds like a force 9 gale when you start moving again, ive had these fans on senators etc & have never heard anything like it before, it does go when ive driven a while as everything cools down a bit but this noise is horendous :o
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 October 2008, 22:14:24
Quote
i hope this is a simple one, is it normal on a tractor that when the viscose fan fully locks when in traffic it sounds like a force 9 gale when you start moving again, ive had these fans on senators etc & have never heard anything like it before, it does go when ive driven a while as everything cools down a bit but this noise is horendous :o


You must have one of the only ones that works correctly....and the Senator ones should do that to when working right!
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: osealy on 06 October 2008, 22:15:01
Yes I think. My first two td's sounded like intercity 125's. My current vicous doesn't work I left it on , it spins around harmlessly!!!!
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: unlucky alf on 06 October 2008, 22:26:28
thanks DTM, I feel relieved & honoured to have a rare working unit :ybut its still a racket ;)
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Omegatoy on 06 October 2008, 22:28:19
Quote
thanks DTM, I feel relieved & honoured to have a rare working unit :ybut its still a racket ;)
maybe it got used to trying to cool the autobox??? ;D
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: feeutfo on 06 October 2008, 22:30:03
mates 530d touriing has same, he noticed funny noise, changed the still working viscous, cured it. :y
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 06 October 2008, 22:38:31
My viscous doesn't make a noise. Its sat in the garage, where it belongs.  Along with teh 2 spares.

Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: unlucky alf on 06 October 2008, 22:39:54
OT that was a bit harsh, but im trying a new idea now, i sit in it & drive it ;) as nice as the underneath looks :y anyway OT  i think your saucer of milk is ready now ;D
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Omegatoy on 06 October 2008, 22:41:23
Quote
OT that was a bit harsh, but im trying a new idea now, i sit in it & drive it ;) as nice as the underneath looks :y anyway OT  i think your saucer of milk is ready now ;D
lol couldnt resist it and as the car is now performing well you can look back and laugh!!!! :y
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: unlucky alf on 06 October 2008, 22:42:18
have you done away with it TB? Ive been told the electric fans are good enough, what say you????
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: unlucky alf on 06 October 2008, 22:43:56
OT who said it was performing well, sometimes the gears sound like they are slipping a bit or is this the chip confusing the box??
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 06 October 2008, 22:46:02
Quote
have you done away with it TB? Ive been told the electric fans are good enough, what say you????
Haven't had mine on for 15 months.  Admittedly I have a very good cooling system on mine (new pump/stat/rad/pipes/hbv), never seen it about 97C since then.  And its been hoofed up and down lake district passes, and hoofed along my private test track at full throttle for 3 or 4 miles to see what speed it would hit...
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: unlucky alf on 06 October 2008, 22:54:52
i cant go 25ft without speedbumps slowing me down, sometime i would like a 2nd opinion on my g/box just to put my mind at rest, it could just be a phobia after what ive been through :-/ but as OT says ive had a laugh about it since.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Omegatoy on 06 October 2008, 23:23:40
chip will be working the gbox hard but if its in good condition should take it ok, :y
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 07 October 2008, 12:43:27
My viscous fan clutch is brand new and it is always engaged.
The noise is just plain awful.
We've tried replacing it three times, presuming it was faulty, but it just keeps roaring, from cold and when the engine is hot. [smiley=angry.gif]
I do not contemplate removing the affair however, because summers here (France) can get very hot indeed, and the two aircon fans don't seem purposeful enough to keep up with the task.
 

Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 07 October 2008, 13:20:46
Quote
My viscous fan clutch is brand new and it is always engaged.
The noise is just plain awful.
We've tried replacing it three times, presuming it was faulty, but it just keeps roaring, from cold and when the engine is hot. [smiley=angry.gif]
I do not contemplate removing the affair however, because summers here (France) can get very hot indeed, and the two aircon fans don't seem purposeful enough to keep up with the task.
 

So is mine but at last the engine does not overheat
It only started to be engaged full time after the water pump was replaced after a bearing failure, prior to that I cannot recall having ever heard it roar- Curious!
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 07 October 2008, 13:39:40
If the mechanic who did the surgery failed to stock the clutch vertically, it may have kicked the bucket !
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 07 October 2008, 18:44:31
Quote
If the mechanic who did the surgery failed to stock the clutch vertically, it may have kicked the bucket !
Please explain!
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2008, 18:56:57
viscous mech must be kept upright at all times, else they tend to fail quickly.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 07 October 2008, 19:08:12
When you say vertical do you mean face-up or on edge?
Once failed can they be rescued, if so how?
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2008, 19:09:09
Quote
When you say vertical do you mean face-up or on edge?
Once failed can they be rescued, if so how?
I mean vertical - ie, as it is in the car.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 07 October 2008, 19:12:22
Quote
Quote
When you say vertical do you mean face-up or on edge?
Once failed can they be rescued, if so how?
I mean vertical - ie, as it is in the car.
Thanks
I wonder how a VX dealer stores new ones or how many times they get inverted in transit from VX??
Have you got your spares stored vertically? :)
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 07 October 2008, 19:20:10
Yes, that's precisely my problem—all the viscous clutches my Opel mechanic tried returned faulty, probably due to bad warehouse stocking conditions. It is clearly stated on the box that it must be stocked vertically, i.e. on the egde, standing upright.
I'm now waiting  for a fourth  :D replacement under warranty.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 07 October 2008, 19:54:36
I wonder how they can be rescued?
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 07 October 2008, 20:27:15
I was told they can't. B****r !
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2008, 20:37:11
Quote
I wonder how they can be rescued?
rescued by buying new one. No workarounds.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 08 October 2008, 08:53:44
On the basis that a replacement may not have been correctly stored, I'll put up with the roaring, it's a Traktor after all, not the most quiet vehicle on the road!
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 08 October 2008, 09:45:33
It has a diesel engine alright, but you have to remember it shouldn't sound like a tractor at all. When adjusted correctly, and believe me, very few machanics have the knowledge, the engine is very quiet indeed, more so than my petrol Mégane 1.6i !
A tractor it is not, sorry !
The BMW M51 is very tricky to adjust, but once it's been done properly, it's a gem.
The viscous fan fully covers the engine noise chez moi, and I certainly won't put up with that !
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Seth on 08 October 2008, 10:52:05
Quote
My viscous fan clutch is brand new and it is always engaged.
The noise is just plain awful.
We've tried replacing it three times, presuming it was faulty, but it just keeps roaring, from cold and when the engine is hot. [smiley=angry.gif]
I do not contemplate removing the affair however, because summers here (France) can get very hot indeed, and the two aircon fans don't seem purposeful enough to keep up with the task.
 

How much did the stealers charge for the viscous?
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 08 October 2008, 11:00:58
Quote
It has a diesel engine alright, but you have to remember it shouldn't sound like a tractor at all. When adjusted correctly, and believe me, very few machanics have the knowledge, the engine is very quiet indeed, more so than my petrol Mégane 1.6i !
A tractor it is not, sorry !
The BMW M51 is very tricky to adjust, but once it's been done properly, it's a gem.
The viscous fan fully covers the engine noise chez moi, and I certainly won't put up with that !
I treat the Traktor as a work-horse not a limousine ;)
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 08 October 2008, 13:13:51
To Sethsmate :
I was charged £160—and yes it is rip-off, but the used ones from scrapyards are generally DOA.

To Pitchfork :
My 'tractor' is our everyday-use family car, the one we use on holidays etc. Agreed, it isn't exactly a limo, but it runs gently and it is very reliable as you know. It is built like a tank too. Whenever I look at the Renault and its cigarette paper steel it makes me laugh !
I feel safe in my Omega !

So I decided to get the VFC repaired, with little success for now !

Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: unlucky alf on 08 October 2008, 14:07:07
i wonder what is in the viscose bit, it does sound like they are a bit fussy, ive had one in the past that had seized, i just heated it up & ran some thin oil down the centre sleeve, & it worked after that but still cant understand this storage thing, very strange :-/
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 08 October 2008, 14:48:59
(http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/585/viscoventinh7.th.jpg) (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=viscoventinh7.jpg)(http://img160.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 October 2008, 14:57:37
Try using an electric fan off a V6 model and use a relay off the temperature sensor - if that makes sence
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: unlucky alf on 08 October 2008, 15:01:50
thats what i cant understand martin, ive already got 2 fans in the front & the viscose on the lump & i dont have a/c so its a bit of an overkill having 3 in total aint it??
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: platty on 08 October 2008, 17:35:29
I run my Viscous during the summer, and take it off during the winter. If I leave it on during the winter, the temp gauge does not come off the bottom  :o  Need to replace the stat at some point I suppose.

I think I know what you mean about the roaring though - should it not be locked up all the time then? What is the correct operation for one?
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 08 October 2008, 19:24:47
Quote
On the basis that a replacement may not have been correctly stored, I'll put up with the roaring, it's a Traktor after all, not the most quiet vehicle on the road!
rip the tinker off!
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 08 October 2008, 19:26:21
Quote
Try using an electric fan off a V6 model and use a relay off the temperature sensor - if that makes sence
tractor has that as well.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 08 October 2008, 19:28:05
It should keep silent 99 % of the time, and be heard in heavy traffic conditions in summer (M25 anyone ?), or if you trail something like a caravan in mountainous regions.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: unlucky alf on 08 October 2008, 19:54:20
thats what i mean TB, 3 flipping fans in total, i reckon you could run it with no water & still be o,k ;D [joke honestly :y]
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 15 November 2008, 07:50:43
Hello everyone,

I told you earlier that my viscous fan clutch remained engaged all the time...
I had my water pump changed yesterday and guess what... the fan now remains silent, and for the first time in 6 months I can hear the engine noise, not the fan whirring !
How can a pump change affect the viscous clutch behaviour ?
Beats me, really.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 15 November 2008, 09:59:38
Quote
Hello everyone,

I told you earlier that my viscous fan clutch remained engaged all the time...
I had my water pump changed yesterday and guess what... the fan now remains silent, and for the first time in 6 months I can hear the engine noise, not the fan whirring !
How can a pump change affect the viscous clutch behaviour ?
Beats me, really.
I would now guess the viscous is knackered and will never come on.  Get rid of the bloody thing ;D


To test it, take it for s spirited drive, pull over, and touch the fan with a rolled up newspaper - it should shred it to bits.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Andy B on 15 November 2008, 10:03:04
Quote
........... and touch the fan with a rolled up newspaper - it should shred it to bits.

Ah! In other circles, that would be the 'carrot test'. Same thing as the roled up paper, but if OK you end up with sliced carrot!  ;D
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 15 November 2008, 10:11:56
Quote
Quote
........... and touch the fan with a rolled up newspaper - it should shred it to bits.

Ah! In other circles, that would be the 'carrot test'. Same thing as the roled up paper, but if OK you end up with sliced carrot!  ;D
And if you're not careful, no fingers ;D - hence why the usual recommendation is newspaper
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 15 November 2008, 11:39:56
Quote
I would now guess the viscous is knackered and will never come on.  

No, no, you misunderstood me, it's actually brand new, along with the pump, and everything now works as they should !
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 15 November 2008, 13:06:21
Quote
Quote
I would now guess the viscous is knackered and will never come on.  

No, no, you misunderstood me, it's actually brand new, along with the pump, and everything now works as they should !
Ahhhh!  Then it will work properly, well at least for a few months ;D

I wouldn't have spent the money on the viscous, its not required under most circumstances - mine hasn't had one for way over a year. Manged to get it to 97C (on guage) hanging the back end out around the passes in the lakes, and 97C across Milton Keynes (the day I melted the brakes), otherwise it sits nicely at 95C (on guage) all the time.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 18 November 2008, 15:17:58
Alright then, I can appreciate irony, but you don't live in France.
In summer, it can get really very hot, and when I hear all those beemers with viscous fans on, I wonder what would happen is they weren't there at all... 8-)

Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 18 November 2008, 19:10:47
Quote
Alright then, I can appreciate irony, but you don't live in France.
In summer, it can get really very hot, and when I hear all those beemers with viscous fans on, I wonder what would happen is they weren't there at all... 8-)

The leccy fans would cool it ;)
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 19 November 2008, 08:32:46
OK, you win.
But seriously ?
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 19 November 2008, 21:43:40
Quote
OK, you win.
But seriously ?
I've not had a viscous fan on for 18 months. I've had it up to 97C hanging the back end out going up the mountain passes, and up to 98C across Milton Keynes (a UK town with roundabouts every 1/4m or so) the day I wrecked the brakes (was in a hurry).

I have a very well serviced cooling system.

If I went to South of France, I probably wouldn't put viscous on....
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 21 November 2008, 14:40:49
Ok, thanks... and by the way I know Milton Keynes and its roundabouts !
I went there 18 years ago—well I had to, and I guess it's even worse today. Horrible indeed !
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 21 November 2008, 21:25:21
Quote
Ok, thanks... and by the way I know Milton Keynes and its roundabouts !
I went there 18 years ago—well I had to, and I guess it's even worse today. Horrible indeed !
Bigger now...
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: valterferraz on 21 November 2008, 23:29:07
being igorant is like being blind, i guess...

i thought this viscose fan was some plastic of which the fan was made and started a new topic, since search didn't give much feedback... :(

sorry folks...
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 13 April 2009, 13:17:22
Quote
Quote
Quote
I would now guess the viscous is knackered and will never come on.  

No, no, you misunderstood me, it's actually brand new, along with the pump, and everything now works as they should !
Ahhhh!  Then it will work properly, well at least for a few months ;D

I wouldn't have spent the money on the viscous, its not required under most circumstances - mine hasn't had one for way over a year. Manged to get it to 97C (on guage) hanging the back end out around the passes in the lakes, and 97C across Milton Keynes (the day I melted the brakes), otherwise it sits nicely at 95C (on guage) all the time.

Well six months have passed and you were right, the viscous fan is knackered again ! It's still under warranty, so I will have it replaced, but the mechanic has lost my trust and thinks I'm a liar or something like a pain in the a**. Viscous fans are cr*p indeed.
I'm sick and tired of that car (now the lift pump has given up the ghost).
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 15 April 2009, 18:13:42
Hello to all,

Well my viscous fan clutch is in my boot now.
Trouble is, the engine temp can get quite high : one kilometre going up a 13% slope had my temp meter climb to a high 100 °C +. The two electric fans switched on then (I'd say at about 97 °C). Temp then went down gently when I went down the other side, to reach 95 °C after five minutes or so.
The rest of the time, it's more like 92-93  degrees.
Should I worry ?
Thanks.

PS. lift pump fixed, power is back !
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 15 April 2009, 18:27:29
Quote
Hello to all,

Well my viscous fan clutch is in my boot now.
Trouble is, the engine temp can get quite high : one kilometre going up a 13% slope had my temp meter climb to a high 100 °C +. The two electric fans switched on then (I'd say at about 97 °C). Temp then went down gently when I went down the other side, to reach 95 °C after five minutes or so.
The rest of the time, it's more like 92-93  degrees.
Should I worry ?
Thanks.
Mine behaved exactly the same but now the Viscous is permanently locked up (sounds like an RB211) but temperature stays below 97 °C
-Incidently the lock-up of the Viscous occured at the same time that the water pump bearing disintegrated & the temperature went off the scale in about 100 metres with the belt wrapped around various pulleys!
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 15 April 2009, 18:41:38
Thanks.
Actually my water pump is new, I just wanted to know if I should put the damn thing back (and drive a lorry) or whether it's safe keeping it in the boot. The cooling system is otherwise in tip-top condition.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 15 April 2009, 21:20:50
I'm wondering if your rad is stating to silt up a bit - my old tractor ran for 18months with no viscous, and never went above 97, and that included some significant thrashings ::)
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Turk on 16 April 2009, 01:35:19
I think the "Whoosh" is great. That's how a big engine should sound  :y
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Omegatoy on 16 April 2009, 07:56:21
Hmm, well i reside in Spain where the temps are regularly horrendously hot :y my TD runs around 94, and the only time i heard the viscous fan cut in was towing the caravan up a tremendous climb of 4 or 5 miles length coming up into Madrid through a place called desperados (where artics can only get up in crawler gear and they have to put thier hazards on whilst climbing as they are grinding up it)
the viscous cut in around 99 and stopped when we got  just over the top, must admit i was worried as its the hardest longest climb in third  gear its ever been asked to carry out, rpm was around 3k and the hill just seemed endless, never heard it on before or since, but regularly hear the low  speed leccy fans when pushing it around the mountains here, am i the only one here with a properly working viscous then?
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 16 April 2009, 19:19:24
Thank you  all.
No, the whoosh is awful, I hate it!
My radiator was rinsed when the water pump was changed.
It looks very clean on the outside too (no mush in the tiny holes).
I normally get 92-93 °C all the time, it was just this once it reached a frighteneing 100+ degrees.
A Beemer expert tells me the M51 should ideally work at around 85 °C. What do you think?
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Omegatoy on 16 April 2009, 20:05:04
doubt your going to get it to un that cool as the std thermostat ist 92!!
 mine without pushing the loud pedal just tootling around runs a tad under the  90 mar accordin to the gauge
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 16 April 2009, 21:12:47
So 92 °C is about right then.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 16 April 2009, 21:42:57
Quote
Hmm, well i reside in Spain where the temps are regularly horrendously hot :y my TD runs around 94, and the only time i heard the viscous fan cut in was towing the caravan up a tremendous climb of 4 or 5 miles length coming up into Madrid through a place called desperados (where artics can only get up in crawler gear and they have to put thier hazards on whilst climbing as they are grinding up it)
the viscous cut in around 99 and stopped when we got  just over the top, must admit i was worried as its the hardest longest climb in third  gear its ever been asked to carry out, rpm was around 3k and the hill just seemed endless, never heard it on before or since, but regularly hear the low  speed leccy fans when pushing it around the mountains here, am i the only one here with a properly working viscous then?
I never saw mine get anywhere near that hot (once it was fixed).

Even when not running, the viscous still rotates, and thus cools (in traffic).  Not having this does mean the leccy fans come on more often, which is good for the intercooler fan ;)
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 16 April 2009, 21:44:04
Quote
So 92 °C is about right then.
Mid point on the gauge, maybe just a shade under...
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Omegatoy on 17 April 2009, 07:54:44
Quote
Quote
Hmm, well i reside in Spain where the temps are regularly horrendously hot :y my TD runs around 94, and the only time i heard the viscous fan cut in was towing the caravan up a tremendous climb of 4 or 5 miles length coming up into Madrid through a place called desperados (where artics can only get up in crawler gear and they have to put thier hazards on whilst climbing as they are grinding up it)
the viscous cut in around 99 and stopped when we got  just over the top, must admit i was worried as its the hardest longest climb in third  gear its ever been asked to carry out, rpm was around 3k and the hill just seemed endless, never heard it on before or since, but regularly hear the low  speed leccy fans when pushing it around the mountains here, am i the only one here with a properly working viscous then?
I never saw mine get anywhere near that hot (once it was fixed).

Even when not running, the viscous still rotates, and thus cools (in traffic).  Not having this does mean the leccy fans come on more often, which is good for the intercooler fan ;)

forgot to say i turned the intercooler fan on at the bottom of the hill knowing it was going to be a hard climb, never seen mine get anywhere near that since, however the van and enough equip to survive 6months oin it meant it weighed around 2 ton!!!
So car was working very hard for its living!!!!! :y
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 17 April 2009, 12:39:41
Ah yes, I had switched the aircon off before the climb, to see how the car behaved. On my Miggy, switching on the aircon triggers all three electric (sorry, leccy) fans by the way.
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 17 April 2009, 14:12:42
Quote
Ah yes, I had switched the aircon off before the climb, to see how the car behaved. On my Miggy, switching on the aircon triggers all three electric (sorry, leccy) fans by the way.
I dream of Aircon! :(
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: platty on 17 April 2009, 14:15:25
Quote
I dream of Aircon! :(
Same here, it has never worked in 2 yrs of ownership! Hardly worth it for the crappy summers we are subjected to  :(
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 17 April 2009, 19:00:22
Quote
Quote
I dream of Aircon! :(
Same here, it has never worked in 2 yrs of ownership! Hardly worth it for the crappy summers we are subjected to  :(
At least you've got it
I'm in the cheap seats!
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: TheBoy on 17 April 2009, 20:00:28
Quote
Quote
Ah yes, I had switched the aircon off before the climb, to see how the car behaved. On my Miggy, switching on the aircon triggers all three electric (sorry, leccy) fans by the way.
I dream of Aircon! :(
LOL, me too, mine is piss poor currently. Bet its the original gas in there (11yrs)
Title: Re: viscose fan
Post by: chartz on 18 April 2009, 06:08:23
Well, my viscous fan doesn't work properly, but as a trade-off (?) the air conditioning works just fine!

Please moderator, could you correct  "viscose fan" to "viscous fan"?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 18 April 2009, 11:00:08
Quote
Well, my viscous fan doesn't work properly, but as a trade-off (?) the air conditioning works just fine!

Please moderator, could you correct  "viscose fan" to "viscous fan"?
That means going through 71 posts and modifying...   ...this software doesn't have a single title for each thread. I'll mod the original post.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 18 April 2009, 12:19:42
Yes, that's what I actually meant! Thanks.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 02 May 2009, 16:44:04
Hello everyone,

I've just got back from the south (of France) so that's about 1000 km worth of motorway (and it doesn't come cheap!). I had no problem with my Omega, but from time to time the temp would almost reach 100 °C (steep slopes, 25 °C air). Otherwise it stayed at 92.5 °C—that is most of the time.
I still can't make up my mind: should I bear the awful fan noise or just leave it that way (in the boot)? How will this affect the health of the engine in the long run?
Also the radiator seems evenly hot on its whole surface, but could it be silted up nonetheless, which would explain the temp rise?
Visually, the water looks very pure to me (yellow Opel stuff).

I don't have a clue, really.

Advice appreciated, thanks.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Seth on 02 May 2009, 19:53:34
Mine's pretty well the same as this ......

Brand-new rad, thermostat and water pump - normal running is around 92C, but show it a climb with the caravan in tow, and it'll creep up towards 100C. Once the climb is over, it quickly returns to 92C. Keeping the lump revving hard, does however help, so I now adjust my driving technique to take this into account. Viscous fan is fitted, but has never cut-in.

Going to give the cooling system a heavy flush with Forte soon.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 03 May 2009, 09:11:51
Thanks.
What is Forte?
If the radiator is new, could the engine lump be obstruated itself?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Turk on 03 May 2009, 23:06:27
Forte is a brand name. They do a whole range of automotive products. Not the cheapest, but effective.  Diesel and petrol additives, coolant system flush etc
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 04 May 2009, 11:16:59
Did someone once post a fix for Viscous couplings that had locked up permanently - by heating them up or something similar?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 05 May 2009, 13:23:48
Quote
Mine's pretty well the same as this ......

Brand-new rad, thermostat and water pump - normal running is around 92C, but show it a climb with the caravan in tow, and it'll creep up towards 100C. Once the climb is over, it quickly returns to 92C. Keeping the lump revving hard, does however help, so I now adjust my driving technique to take this into account. Viscous fan is fitted, but has never cut-in.

Going to give the cooling system a heavy flush with Forte soon.
Yup, flush the cooling system with Forte.  My old tractor, no matter how driven, never went up above 97C, including some serious ragging up and down mountain passes with the rear not following the front ::)
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 05 May 2009, 13:30:40
Okay, got that.
But how do you flush with Forte then? Is there a tutorial somewhere?

Thanks.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 05 May 2009, 13:45:55
Quote
Okay, got that.
But how do you flush with Forte then? Is there a tutorial somewhere?

Thanks.
Nope, follow instructions on the tin.

Remember, on the TD, there is a drain plug for rad, and a drain plug for engine block
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Omegatoy on 05 May 2009, 20:16:16
always found it best to pour it into the header tank then run around for a few days, then at the weekend drain it when engine hot(mind fingers when undoing drain) dont forget to undo the drain on the block, allow engine to cool down and refill with fresh antifreeze etc!!
tin says something like run engine for 10 mins and drain, nope i like it to do a damn good job in there!!! jm2pw
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 14 June 2009, 19:17:08
Hello,

I've just got my new viscous clutch, and guess what...
It worked for three days before being engaged all the time again (even cold), just like the previous ones !
Stupid question : is my engine eating up the clutches (that one was my fifth in one year) and why ?
I have yet to find a mechanic who can really understand the problem (Opel or BMW).
Leaving it in the boot wasn't really an option. The temperature was approaching 100 °C all too often, and I find this too scary.
Anyway,  :o :( :D :'(
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 14 June 2009, 19:32:00
Quote
Hello,

I've just got my new viscous clutch, and guess what...
It worked for three days before being engaged all the time again (even cold), just like the previous ones !
Stupid question : is my engine eating up the clutches (that one was my fifth in one year) and why ?
I have yet to find a mechanic who can really understand the problem (Opel or BMW).
Leaving it in the boot wasn't really an option. The temperature was approaching 100 °C all too often, and I find this too scary.
Anyway,  :o :( :D :'(
If temp going that high, you have a major issue that the viscous may be masking.  I would look into that first.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 14 June 2009, 19:55:11
Thanks. It is going that high when the weather is very hot (circa 30 °C) and with five people in the car.
Most of the time, it's 92.5 °C.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 14 June 2009, 20:06:57
Quote
Thanks. It is going that high when the weather is very hot (circa 30 °C) and with five people in the car.
Most of the time, it's 92.5 °C.
After sorting mine out, never managed higher than 97C, no matter what the temps, how it was loaded, or how it was driven (normally very hard ::))
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 14 June 2009, 20:14:33
A radiator change would be the order of the day then?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 14 June 2009, 20:22:41
Quote
A radiator change would be the order of the day then?
Before than, a good coolant flush, and a good oil flush.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 15 June 2009, 06:23:41
Coolant flush was done a few months ago, after I had the pump changed. How do you do an oil flush?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 15 June 2009, 19:07:03
Quote
Coolant flush was done a few months ago, after I had the pump changed. How do you do an oil flush?
follow the instructions on the bottle ;)

was the coolant flushed withh a cleaning agent, such as forte cooling system flush?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 16 June 2009, 06:23:06
I will have to ask my mechanic!
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: osealy on 16 June 2009, 13:27:32
I tried all the recomendations , except oil flush.
Stat, pump, rad flush, leccy fans wired permanently on.
In the end I fitted a new rad , easy, 180 quid. It now sits at 95, 97 on inclines at 80mph. My viscous is fitted but doesn't engage.

Now  my steering pump banjo is leaking. The nut is a c##t to get at. >:( >:(
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 16 June 2009, 18:56:08
Quote
I tried all the recomendations , except oil flush.
Stat, pump, rad flush, leccy fans wired permanently on.
In the end I fitted a new rad , easy, 180 quid. It now sits at 95, 97 on inclines at 80mph. My viscous is fitted but doesn't engage.

Now  my steering pump banjo is leaking. The nut is a c##t to get at. >:( >:(
Any cruising speed, and I mean ANY, mind would never go above 96C.  Never cruised it above 130mph.

Therefore, I'm guessing you still have an issue
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 16 June 2009, 21:14:44
Quote
I tried all the recomendations , except oil flush.
Stat, pump, rad flush, leccy fans wired permanently on.
In the end I fitted a new rad , easy, 180 quid. It now sits at 95, 97 on inclines at 80mph. My viscous is fitted but doesn't engage.
 >:( >:(

You mean the viscous clutch was always engaged like mine prior to radiator change ?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: osealy on 17 June 2009, 09:44:45
No. It just spins uselessly, hot or cold. But I put it back anyway as it feathers along with the pump.
As TB says I may still have a prob but I dont like the idea of an oil flush. Still going strong at 167K.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 17 June 2009, 10:03:29
So it squeals continuously like mine then?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: osealy on 17 June 2009, 14:46:25
No it's silent. It just doesn't work. I did use to drive a 94M auto est with a working viscous, it used to sound like a jet readying for take off. Temp always stayed below 90 even towing 1500kg
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 17 June 2009, 17:00:08
My Viscous is permanently locked up so that I sound like a Eurofighter taking off
Is there a fix for locked Viscous's other than TBs anticipated suggestion of throwing them away?
Feint recollections of someone posting a remedy that involved heating them up
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 17 June 2009, 18:37:23
Quote
My Viscous is permanently locked up so that I sound like a Eurofighter taking off
Is there a fix for locked Viscous's other than TBs anticipated suggestion of throwing them away?
Feint recollections of someone posting a remedy that involved heating them up
renew, approx £70 iirc from bmw
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 17 June 2009, 18:58:07
Quote
Quote
My Viscous is permanently locked up so that I sound like a Eurofighter taking off
Is there a fix for locked Viscous's other than TBs anticipated suggestion of throwing them away?
Feint recollections of someone posting a remedy that involved heating them up
renew, approx £70 iirc from bmw
The difficulty will be proving that it has been stored vertically
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 17 June 2009, 18:59:34
Quote
Quote
Quote
My Viscous is permanently locked up so that I sound like a Eurofighter taking off
Is there a fix for locked Viscous's other than TBs anticipated suggestion of throwing them away?
Feint recollections of someone posting a remedy that involved heating them up
renew, approx £70 iirc from bmw
The difficulty will be proving that it has been stored vertically
exactly, so dont bother, its not needed.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 18 June 2009, 18:19:23
Well live in France... It is needed, in traffic jams or in mountainous areas in summer.
My brand new, BMW-sourced viscous clutch is already busted, after three days. Always engaged, although temp is normal. Even from cold.
As Americans would put it, bummer.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 18 June 2009, 18:28:16
Quote
Well live in France... It is needed, in traffic jams or in mountainous areas in summer.
My brand new, BMW-sourced viscous clutch is already busted, after three days. Always engaged, although temp is normal. Even from cold.
As Americans would put it, bummer.
Probably because they stored it flat in the parts dept
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 18 June 2009, 18:56:14
I'm on my fifth defective brand new one, all from BMW!
They tell me it's my fault, my car is rotten, they've never had a problem before.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 18 June 2009, 19:02:56
Quote
Well live in France... It is needed, in traffic jams or in mountainous areas in summer.
My brand new, BMW-sourced viscous clutch is already busted, after three days. Always engaged, although temp is normal. Even from cold.
As Americans would put it, bummer.
Isn't that northern france?

To be honest, the leccy fans should be more than enough in traffic...
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 18 June 2009, 19:04:47
Quote
I'm on my fifth defective brand new one, all from BMW!
They tell me it's my fault, my car is rotten, they've never had a problem before.

Leur dire que c'est une charge de testicules! ;)
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 18 June 2009, 19:06:30
Quote
Quote
I'm on my fifth defective brand new one, all from BMW!
They tell me it's my fault, my car is rotten, they've never had a problem before.

Leur dire que c'est une charge de testicules! ;)

Une bande de crétins.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 18 June 2009, 19:07:20
Quote
Quote
Quote
I'm on my fifth defective brand new one, all from BMW!
They tell me it's my fault, my car is rotten, they've never had a problem before.

Leur dire que c'est une charge de testicules! ;)

Une bande de crétins.
PMSL ;D
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 18 June 2009, 19:13:18
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
I'm on my fifth defective brand new one, all from BMW!
They tell me it's my fault, my car is rotten, they've never had a problem before.

Leur dire que c'est une charge de testicules! ;)

Une bande de crétins.
PMSL ;D
Avec la merde pour le cerveau! ::)
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 18 June 2009, 21:57:44
OK, cut out the funny stuff.
Seriously?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 19 June 2009, 08:10:44
Sérieusement, selon le garçon, ils doivent être entreposés et transportés verticalement.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 19 June 2009, 09:04:10
there is no reason why yours should be eating viscous fans, other than the fact that correct storage is critical, and that viscous is an unreliable, crap technology. Always was, and it hasn't been developed for years.  Viscous does have a place, but not in a road car!
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Omegatoy on 19 June 2009, 09:29:46
thats just plain weird for 5 to go in the same way, as its only the viscosity of the fluid(silicon i think) in the hub that drives the fan blades, and it is supposed to only thicken up when it gets heat from the radiator to thicken and start driving the fan,when it cools down it freewheels and doesnt drive the fan, are you getting new hubs or the complete assembly with fanblades attached? cos im wondering if a different fan may help. stranger things have happened!!
could try and  get yourself a can of freezer spray that is used for freezing pipes by plumbers and spray it on the hub to see if it does let go,  although it is normal for a viscous to come on when engine is started from cold it usually only lasts a minute or so then frees off to freewheel till engine is hot
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Pitchfork on 19 June 2009, 10:21:40
Quote
thats just plain weird for 5 to go in the same way, as its only the viscosity of the fluid(silicon i think) in the hub that drives the fan blades, and it is supposed to only thicken up when it gets heat from the radiator to thicken and start driving the fan,when it cools down it freewheels and doesnt drive the fan, are you getting new hubs or the complete assembly with fanblades attached? cos im wondering if a different fan may help. stranger things have happened!!
could try and  get yourself a can of freezer spray that is used for freezing pipes by plumbers and spray it on the hub to see if it does let go,  although it is normal for a viscous to come on when engine is started from cold it usually only lasts a minute or so then frees off to freewheel till engine is hot
That's a damn good idea, it will be interesting to see what effect it has on mine that is permanently engaged especially if I spray it once the engine is hot
Any idea of the failure mechanism that would cause it to lock?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 19 June 2009, 12:23:09
The problem is the thing is always engaged, whether hot or cold.
The other day I pulled over after a one hour  drive and when I put my hand between the fan and the radiator, the latter was completely cold, not even lukewarm! After a minute or so, the radiator became lukewarm, then I started the engine and it became hot quite quickly. So theoretically, the viscous clutch shouldn't have  been engaged at all, since it's temperature-sensitive. The air flow is so powerful that it always keeps that part cold. Puzzling, this.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: TheBoy on 19 June 2009, 12:28:31
Quote
The problem is the thing is always engaged, whether hot or cold.
The other day I pulled over after a one hour  drive and when I put my hand between the fan and the radiator, the latter was completely cold, not even lukewarm! After a minute or so, the radiator became lukewarm, then I started the engine and it became hot quite quickly. So theoretically, the viscous clutch shouldn't have  been engaged at all, since it's temperature-sensitive. The air flow is so powerful that it always keeps that part cold. Puzzling, this.
The 3 I had in my garage were all the same. The noise and the power sapping was what made me rip them out and stay out. Crap idea. Unnecessary on a road car.

For info, most viscous, even when working right, will be engaged when cold for a min or so before it starts to freewheel a bit. This is normal.
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: unlucky alf on 19 June 2009, 13:20:57
blimey & i only asked a simple question back on post 1 ;D, it now seems to become a right hornets nest :o
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: Omegatoy on 19 June 2009, 15:44:40
Quote
Quote
thats just plain weird for 5 to go in the same way, as its only the viscosity of the fluid(silicon i think) in the hub that drives the fan blades, and it is supposed to only thicken up when it gets heat from the radiator to thicken and start driving the fan,when it cools down it freewheels and doesnt drive the fan, are you getting new hubs or the complete assembly with fanblades attached? cos im wondering if a different fan may help. stranger things have happened!!
could try and  get yourself a can of freezer spray that is used for freezing pipes by plumbers and spray it on the hub to see if it does let go,  although it is normal for a viscous to come on when engine is started from cold it usually only lasts a minute or so then frees off to freewheel till engine is hot
That's a damn good idea, it will be interesting to see what effect it has on mine that is permanently engaged especially if I spray it once the engine is hot
Any idea of the failure mechanism that would cause it to lock?
two possible reasons
1 fluid had leaked out
2 early viscous used to be triggered by a bi metallic strip bending with the heat wonder if these are triggered by this method?   
 reason i asked if the just the hub was changed is just to eliminate a unbalanced fan causing vibration which in theory could cause it to lock up its the only thing i can think of!!! 5 hubs all going the same way?
Title: Re: viscous fan
Post by: chartz on 19 June 2009, 18:01:21
Okay then,. I'll end up changing the fan itself if it comes to that. I shall keep you informed.