Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Jay w on 26 November 2007, 08:46:15

Title: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Jay w on 26 November 2007, 08:46:15
Who the hell came up with this stupid idea!!!!  >:( >:(

The miggy is in the garage and i have a VW Passat, this this has one of those electronic handbrake jobbies, in order to release it you have to have your foot on the brake pedal and then hit a switch on the dash.....

Not suce a bad idea i hear you say......try doing a hill start  :o because it releases immediatly trying to get the clutch on the bite without throttle will cause the car to stall, it's a DBW system and so has no feel, hit the throttle and you are bouncing the limiter, find the bite and the front wheels are spinning their nuts off and ESP is trying to control the spin......not well either

A badly thought out system that will give more problems than a cable system when the motors fail or lock up......

As a car i would not recomment the Passat, big car, lots of space, quick engine that is economical, but low spec, expensive, lots of dull drab plastic, and not a particularly exciting car to drive.
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: TheBoy on 26 November 2007, 08:48:50
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As a car i would not recomment the Passat, big car, lots of space, quick engine that is economical, but low spec, expensive, lots of dull drab plastic, and not a particularly exciting car to drive.
its a VAG, what do you expect?
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Jay w on 26 November 2007, 08:54:25
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As a car i would not recomment the Passat, big car, lots of space, quick engine that is economical, but low spec, expensive, lots of dull drab plastic, and not a particularly exciting car to drive.
its a VAG, what do you expect?

having had a few Golf and Scirocco GTi's i did expect something that had some driver involvement and some decent materials in it, we had a Skoda Superb on loan a few months back for assessment and i have to say it was a nicer car inside the cabin.
The Passat had a lot of that cheap solid plastic on the door trims and dash, not very tactile at all

VAG have moved on and its not for the better  
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Kevin Wood on 26 November 2007, 09:25:45
Sounds like engineering for engineering's sake. Cars are full of it these days. Solving problems that never existed.

If you have an electric hand brake what happens when the battery runs flat?  :o

Kevin
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Admin on 26 November 2007, 10:48:04
I have a Passat as my company car right now (not through choice I was given it).

Actually the electronic parking brake is very good, once you get used to it.

Just remember it releases automatically when you pull off, you don't need to press it. ;)

As for the car itself....

Yes the interior is a bit drab (it is German after all) and the toy count is very limited.
The 2.0 diesel is ok, the 1.9 is the old engine and is less refined.
Driving excitement is non existant... They are very economical though (45-50mpg average).
Ride is hugely improved over the old Passat and is better than the Alfa 159, the Vectra and the new Laguna (Vectra is the best handling of these though).

It also has a rather good sound system as standard.



Have to say the radio/cd system is excellent
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 November 2007, 10:53:25
Truely pointless things.....they can no longer be used as an emergency brake.....or to give added pleasure in frosty car parks.

Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: x25xe on 26 November 2007, 11:04:37
A lot of the reps have Passats.  Have to say that if I need to go to our other sites in Birmingham, I avoid taking and VW cars and I find them so uncomfortable!  Generally I take the Cavalier or Omega and claim the mileage.  The company does not like doing this though so it is quite difficult.

To the original point raised, I think that electronic handbrakes are an unnecessary complication to be honest.  What indeed happens when the battery is flat?  You can't push the car without the ignition on either which I would find a nuisance.
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: mantahatch on 26 November 2007, 14:04:35
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A lot of the reps have Passats.  Have to say that if I need to go to our other sites in Birmingham, I avoid taking and VW cars and I find them so uncomfortable!  Generally I take the Cavalier or Omega and claim the mileage.  The company does not like doing this though so it is quite difficult.

To the original point raised, I think that electronic handbrakes are an unnecessary complication to be honest.  What indeed happens when the battery is flat?  You can't push the car without the ignition on either which I would find a nuisance.

Would be very interesed to no what the "fail safe" on this system is. I mean does it fail in the on or off position ? failing either way must have potential problems, IMHO

Regards

Mike
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: STMO123 on 26 November 2007, 14:31:18
I used to hate the foot operated parking brake on my legend.
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Kevin Wood on 26 November 2007, 14:32:15
The construction and use regulations require an emergency brake to be "maintained in position by purely mechanical means". I would assume this means that the mechanism mechanically locks in the "on" or "off" position and requires a motor to move between them. I would hope there's a manual way of operating it too, otherwise a flat battery or electrical problem leaves you with a completely immobile car.

Can't really see what was wrong with a cable operated handbrake, except the lump of biomass behind the steering wheel could forget to apply it, of course.

Kevin
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: raximax on 26 November 2007, 15:06:40
i agree it is quite good after a while good for hill starts comes of on its own. :y
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Martin_1962 on 26 November 2007, 16:39:29
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I have a Passat as my company car right now (not through choice I was given it).


Now to upset you Dave

I used to have a company car.

Carlton GLi 2.0
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: TheBoy on 26 November 2007, 21:47:13
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Truely pointless things.....they can no longer be used as an emergency brake.....or to give added pleasure in frosty car parks.

Why wait for frost ::)
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Paul M on 27 November 2007, 16:55:25
Yep I think this is one of those things I'd absolutely hate, bloody electronic crap replacing something that worked perfectly well in the past (as long as it was correctly maintained). Oh well that's just another car that I can add to the list of those I refuse to even consider due to a boneheaded "feature".

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i agree it is quite good after a while good for hill starts comes of on its own. :y

I don't see how a hill start is even slightly difficult with a normal handbrake -- as soon as you feel the car starting to pull, release the brake. Anyone who can't accomplish this shouldn't be on the road.
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Jay w on 28 November 2007, 10:35:47
it is supposed to release once it detects the car in gear, clutch at biting point and revs above idle.......

However i have a duff car and the bloody brakes have locked on, there doesnt seem to a manual way of releasing them either.

So now we know what the default setting is, when these things go belly up you aint going no where.

AA were there for 45 mins and eventually had to drag the car back to Avis with the back wheels suspended, i have another one of these fine German automobiles being delivered this afternoon  >:( >:(

Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: mantahatch on 28 November 2007, 11:13:47
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it is supposed to release once it detects the car in gear, clutch at biting point and revs above idle.......

However i have a duff car and the bloody brakes have locked on, there doesnt seem to a manual way of releasing them either.

So now we know what the default setting is, when these things go belly up you aint going no where.

AA were there for 45 mins and eventually had to drag the car back to Avis with the back wheels suspended, i have another one of these fine German automobiles being delivered this afternoon  >:( >:(

 

Just a thought, could this happen whilst driving along at approx 70mph ? is this going to turn into another german cover up of faults on there cars ?
For your information, the bmw mini had more safety recalls in the first 2 years than the Vauxhall Vectra B had in its entire production run.

Mike  
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 November 2007, 12:26:24
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So now we know what the default setting is, when these things go belly up you aint going no where.

I have a feeling the VAG ones still have a pair of hand brake cables between the calipers and the electric actuator. So next time...  take a set of bolt cutters with you and if there's any trouble give it the snip!  ;D

Kevin
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Paulus on 28 November 2007, 13:12:19
Jaguar have got it right...simply put your foot on the accelerator and it switches off automatically.
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Jay w on 28 November 2007, 13:28:39
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it is supposed to release once it detects the car in gear, clutch at biting point and revs above idle.......

However i have a duff car and the bloody brakes have locked on, there doesnt seem to a manual way of releasing them either.

So now we know what the default setting is, when these things go belly up you aint going no where.

AA were there for 45 mins and eventually had to drag the car back to Avis with the back wheels suspended, i have another one of these fine German automobiles being delivered this afternoon  >:( >:(

 

Just a thought, could this happen whilst driving along at approx 70mph ? is this going to turn into another german cover up of faults on there cars ?
For your information, the bmw mini had more safety recalls in the first 2 years than the Vauxhall Vectra B had in its entire production run.

Mike  

i cant see why, unless the system was to short out whilst the car was in motion.

failure like this is more often when the item has been activated and the motor(s) become stuck in the close position.....

mind you something as simple as a fuse blowing would have the same effect.....scarey
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Jay w on 28 November 2007, 13:30:08
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So now we know what the default setting is, when these things go belly up you aint going no where.

I have a feeling the VAG ones still have a pair of hand brake cables between the calipers and the electric actuator. So next time...  take a set of bolt cutters with you and if there's any trouble give it the snip!  ;D

Kevin

dont know why but jimbob springs to mind at this point  :o
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Jimbob on 28 November 2007, 13:30:48
 :-[
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 November 2007, 14:17:14
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So now we know what the default setting is, when these things go belly up you aint going no where.

I have a feeling the VAG ones still have a pair of hand brake cables between the calipers and the electric actuator. So next time...  take a set of bolt cutters with you and if there's any trouble give it the snip!  ;D

Kevin

dont know why but jimbob springs to mind at this point  :o


 ;D

Is Jimbob's one manually operated or electric?  :o

Kevin
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Paul M on 28 November 2007, 14:51:21
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Jaguar have got it right...simply put your foot on the accelerator and it switches off automatically.

Brilliant idea.... so you're stopped on a steep hill with the handbrake on. As would be sensible in this case, you decide to give it some revs before pulling away, otherwise the engine will stall due to it having to overcome the car's weight being pulled up a hill. At which point the handbrake immediately disengages leaving you rolling backwards down a rather steep hill.

Is this part of equal opportunities law, that dumbf**ks have to be given the same chance at design jobs as those who actually have a clue?
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: TheBoy on 28 November 2007, 15:00:26
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Jaguar have got it right...simply put your foot on the accelerator and it switches off automatically.

Brilliant idea.... so you're stopped on a steep hill with the handbrake on. As would be sensible in this case, you decide to give it some revs before pulling away, otherwise the engine will stall due to it having to overcome the car's weight being pulled up a hill. At which point the handbrake immediately disengages leaving you rolling backwards down a rather steep hill.

Is this part of equal opportunities law, that dumbf**ks have to be given the same chance at design jobs as those who actually have a clue?
Whilst I'm not a fan of it, it does actually work.  My complaint is what happens when something breaks...
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Paul M on 28 November 2007, 15:06:51
I wouldn't fancy trying to park in one of the marked bays in San Francisco with one of those things. Tight space combined with very steep hills mean you need all the control you can get to avoid bumping into one of the cars either in front or behind. A well-maintained, effective "analogue" handbrake is essential for this IMO.

Next we'll have an automatic footbrake that is either on or off ::)
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Paul M on 28 November 2007, 15:09:19
Oh and on a similar note, I can only assume this "feature" came out of some research centre in the US... yet another appeasement to the nation where almost everyone over 16 has a driving licence, but very few can actually drive. I guess many of them found operating the handbrake properly a skill too far.
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: TheBoy on 28 November 2007, 15:17:09
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Next we'll have an automatic footbrake that is either on or off ::)
I thought thats how footbrakes were ::)  ;)
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 28 November 2007, 15:19:43
2 of my neighbours have new Passat TDIs..I've driven them..Never for my taste..

And I see them, everytime looking and examining my car  especially when I open the bonnet  ;D







Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Martin_1962 on 28 November 2007, 15:27:16
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Jaguar have got it right...simply put your foot on the accelerator and it switches off automatically.

Brilliant idea.... so you're stopped on a steep hill with the handbrake on. As would be sensible in this case, you decide to give it some revs before pulling away, otherwise the engine will stall due to it having to overcome the car's weight being pulled up a hill. At which point the handbrake immediately disengages leaving you rolling backwards down a rather steep hill.

Is this part of equal opportunities law, that dumbf**ks have to be given the same chance at design jobs as those who actually have a clue?


I can see no point - pulling away while towing would be difficult, regardless of transmission, imagine 1 in 4 with a heavy caravan behind, a bit of throttle, hand brake off slide backwards with auto, panic with throttle & clutch with manual.
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 November 2007, 15:47:12
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I wouldn't fancy trying to park in one of the marked bays in San Francisco

I once found myself in the same situation. Well, trying to pull away from a set of lights on one of the hills in some god-awful Buick with a push-button release pedal hand brake.

I think the natives have adopted the style of left foot braking but that's a dangerous habit if you ever drive something with the full driver involvement pack.

Kevin
Title: Re: Electronic handbrakes
Post by: Paul M on 28 November 2007, 16:34:52
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Jaguar have got it right...simply put your foot on the accelerator and it switches off automatically.

Brilliant idea.... so you're stopped on a steep hill with the handbrake on. As would be sensible in this case, you decide to give it some revs before pulling away, otherwise the engine will stall due to it having to overcome the car's weight being pulled up a hill. At which point the handbrake immediately disengages leaving you rolling backwards down a rather steep hill.

Is this part of equal opportunities law, that dumbf**ks have to be given the same chance at design jobs as those who actually have a clue?


I can see no point - pulling away while towing would be difficult, regardless of transmission, imagine 1 in 4 with a heavy caravan behind, a bit of throttle, hand brake off slide backwards with auto, panic with throttle & clutch with manual.

Basically, it seems to me that as soon as you touch the gas you have to immediately get to the point where the engine is holding the car. One of us could probably just about manage it safely, but I can't imagine an 80 year old who's used to driving a 1980 Ford Escort will be so quick with his reactions. At least with the current system, if you're incompetent you tend to give it too much revs getting to the point where the engine is holding the car, shortening the clutch life, but it's safe.