Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: i260 on 12 July 2009, 08:34:06

Title: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: i260 on 12 July 2009, 08:34:06
Does anybody else find the t/c really frustrating? The number if times that I go to pull out of a junction and one of th erear wheels starts t ospin then the whole engine seems to be cut for what seems like ages while it gathers itself together again in the meantime leaving me feeling stranded in the middle of the wrong carridgeway! Possible a bit of an exageration but when it is happenning that is what it feels like.

I appreciate that this is probably not a 'modern' t/c but astert he system fitted to my Golf Mk4 (which is not that much newer design than the Mig) which does a quick 'slip n grab' so you keep moving I am SO tempted to run with it off until you realise that the other option is to end up with facing the wrong way on the wrong carridgeway!

What do others think / do?
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: KillerWatt on 12 July 2009, 08:53:15
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I am SO tempted to run with it off until you realise that the other option is to end up with facing the wrong way on the wrong carridgeway!
That will only happen if you fail to read the road correctly.

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What do others think / do?
I personally always used to keep it switched off when we had our's, but that's because I like to be in control.

If (as you say in your first line) the TC is activating when you pull out of junctions regularly, then you either have crap tyres, crap suspension, or you are opening the taps too much (or a combination of all 3).
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Lazydocker on 12 July 2009, 10:22:18
I would suggest being a little more gentle on the loud pedal... Mine doesn't cut in often (apart from "giving it large" on the roundabouts  ::) ::)) and I frequently turn it off :y :y :y
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: tigers_gonads on 12 July 2009, 10:46:32
think for some reason it varies from car to car  :-/

my old saloon would cut in very quick like yours but with the caravan i drive now, you can spin the wheels a little before it cuts in  :-/

again the abs was the same .......... very sharp on the saloon but a little bit of lock up on the wheels before the abs kicks in  :-/

differant tolerances on the abs / tc unit ?

both cars are pre facelift.  :y
don't know if the newer cars have a differant system ?
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: feeutfo on 12 July 2009, 10:49:19
sounds like usual tc to me. Bit basic tbh but it has defo kept me out of the ditch in the winter. I do turn it off waiting to pull out at junctions if i think it will spin, like if raining, theory being if the inside wheels spins i will keep going forward, but if the outside wheel spins as well, better be awake. Probably why plod use an lsd. :-)
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Andy B on 12 July 2009, 10:49:20
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.....
What do others think / do?

I agree with you. The TC is too much ON or OFF with nothing in between. New/better rear tyres might very well improve matters though.
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: jonathanh on 12 July 2009, 10:58:56
also has quite a bit to do with tyres and their pressure etc.

I've had varing problems with the TC but a new set of tyres really changed things. 

also check your shocks - I did have all sort of problems with the ABS cutting in.  I changes the front shocks and the ABS issue went away: when I thought about it the reason was obvious.  the new shocks were keeping the wheels in touch with the road more: hence better braking
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Ian_D on 12 July 2009, 11:01:24
It can work both ways sometimes.

For me it either works fine, stopping the spin so I get traction, and then launches of again...

Or more often, kills the power, and just sits there.  :-X

However, in the wet, its crap (Or it was anyway) - Cant wait to try it now though, I've got 4 new tyres on it (BIG BIG thanks to Marky Mark! :y :y)
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 12 July 2009, 12:12:19
I think tyres is mainly the problem, in my 2,5 with the TC off there are times I cant even get a hint of sqeal.  I also agree regards the tyre pressures and different road surfaces.  Als after a post from MDTM regrds his findings on tyre pressures on his works run I now run 24 psi all round.  Take it all into account.  tres, pressures road surface and weather.  There are days I cant get the to squeal there are also days I could win a drifting compation on 1/2 to 3/4 throttle. ::) ::) ;D ;D   Off road of course on a track.
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Lazydocker on 12 July 2009, 12:15:14
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I think tyres is mainly the problem, in my 2,5 with the TC off there are times I cant even get a hint of sqeal.  I also agree regards the tyre pressures and different road surfaces.  Als after a post from MDTM regrds his findings on tyre pressures on his works run I now run 24 psi all round.  Take it all into account.  tres, pressures road surface and weather.  There are days I cant get the to squeal there are also days I could win a drifting compation on 1/2 to 3/4 throttle. ::) ::) ;D ;D   Off road of course on a track.

Sounds a bit low to me.... I thought his findings were 35psi  :-/ :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 12 July 2009, 13:28:53
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Quote
I think tyres is mainly the problem, in my 2,5 with the TC off there are times I cant even get a hint of sqeal.  I also agree regards the tyre pressures and different road surfaces.  Als after a post from MDTM regrds his findings on tyre pressures on his works run I now run 24 psi all round.  Take it all into account.  tres, pressures road surface and weather.  There are days I cant get the to squeal there are also days I could win a drifting compation on 1/2 to 3/4 throttle. ::) ::) ;D ;D   Off road of course on a track.

Sounds a bit low to me.... I thought his findings were 35psi  :-/ :-/ :-/

Error on my part, typical of me not allways correcting my posts.

Should have read 34psi :y
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Lazydocker on 12 July 2009, 13:39:01
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Quote
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I think tyres is mainly the problem, in my 2,5 with the TC off there are times I cant even get a hint of sqeal.  I also agree regards the tyre pressures and different road surfaces.  Als after a post from MDTM regrds his findings on tyre pressures on his works run I now run 24 psi all round.  Take it all into account.  tres, pressures road surface and weather.  There are days I cant get the to squeal there are also days I could win a drifting compation on 1/2 to 3/4 throttle. ::) ::) ;D ;D   Off road of course on a track.

Sounds a bit low to me.... I thought his findings were 35psi  :-/ :-/ :-/

Error on my part, typical of me not allways correcting my posts.

Should have read 34psi :y

Thought so... I too have taken MDTM's findings on board :y :y :y
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 12 July 2009, 13:42:48
Yes.  I found MDTM's findings rather interesting, especially has I dont do the sort of run's he does over the same roads/distance on a daily basis.

Just need to find the time to get the Tech2 gearbox upgrade to add to the driveability and fuel economy. :y
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: i260 on 12 July 2009, 14:09:05
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Quote
I am SO tempted to run with it off until you realise that the other option is to end up with facing the wrong way on the wrong carridgeway!
That will only happen if you fail to read the road correctly.

Quote
What do others think / do?
I personally always used to keep it switched off when we had our's, but that's because I like to be in control.

If (as you say in your first line) the TC is activating when you pull out of junctions regularly, then you either have crap tyres, crap suspension, or you are opening the taps too much (or a combination of all 3).

Tyres arn't brilliant (good make but getting low) and the suspension is std original '53 67k so probably past its best.

What I really don't like is that it TOTALLY kills the power, rather than moderating the wheelspin. You can only do moderately quick take offs out of junctions. Its not like I am planting it but you are just left stranded.
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: eddie on 12 July 2009, 16:54:22
Are you sure its the TC that you are experiencing and not a semi-stall--I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the TC actually applies the brakes to the relevant spinning wheel?

eddie
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Andy B on 12 July 2009, 18:10:45
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.....
--I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the TC actually applies the brakes to the relevant spinning wheel?

eddie

I believe that applies to mini-facelift onwards ie 4 channel system!  :y
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: i260 on 12 July 2009, 20:59:12
Not stalling - in fairness I sort of noticed this trait when my dad had it as well so that sort of rules out the tyre and shock theory as well.

Could be just a grabby system after being used to an ignition retard sytem on my last car.
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: JK on 13 July 2009, 20:05:12
Am i reading this correctly, will the traction control cut in even if it is turned off, or have i misunderstood some of the comments, as i thought off was off . :-/ :-/Very confused---JK
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 July 2009, 20:16:47
TC off is truely off.

TC on:
Pre 1998 cars - cuts 2 cylinders, if that doesn't help, cuts more.

Post 1998 cars - if just one wheel is spinning, will apply brake to that wheel, if that doesn't cure, will start to cut power. If both wheels spinning, will start to cut power.



TC works best if man and machine work together - ie, if it starts to cut in, flooring it ain't gonna help at all, only make it worse - the system does whatever it can to stop wheelspin (ie maintain traction), and if you are trying to lay 200bhp on wheels already losing traction, its going to have to chop the power.

I don't have any trouble with the TC on the Omega - in fact its one of the best RWD TC only systems I've driven
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: JK on 13 July 2009, 20:29:05
Thanks for clearing that up --JK
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: kcl on 14 July 2009, 06:50:15
I had similar feelings about the TC, it was too agressive and the car was almost difficult to drive in the winter with the TC on. I had the ECU program updated and there was a really significant change in how the TC acts. Now it seems to be more "tolerable", does what it's supposed to but does not cut out the power too much. You should try to update your software also.
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Lazydocker on 14 July 2009, 07:44:42
Quote
I had similar feelings about the TC, it was too agressive and the car was almost difficult to drive in the winter with the TC on. I had the ECU program updated and there was a really significant change in how the TC acts. Now it seems to be more "tolerable", does what it's supposed to but does not cut out the power too much. You should try to update your software also.

I personally found it a pleasure to drive in the winter snow... Don't know what everyone's problems were TBH, just got to drive smoothly and it doesn't make much difference whether TC is on or off ::) ::)
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: TheBoy on 14 July 2009, 12:51:32
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I had similar feelings about the TC, it was too agressive and the car was almost difficult to drive in the winter with the TC on. I had the ECU program updated and there was a really significant change in how the TC acts. Now it seems to be more "tolerable", does what it's supposed to but does not cut out the power too much. You should try to update your software also.
Only 2.6/3.2 are updatable, 2.5/3.0 aren't
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: kcl on 14 July 2009, 12:55:46
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Quote
I had similar feelings about the TC, it was too agressive and the car was almost difficult to drive in the winter with the TC on. I had the ECU program updated and there was a really significant change in how the TC acts. Now it seems to be more "tolerable", does what it's supposed to but does not cut out the power too much. You should try to update your software also.

I personally found it a pleasure to drive in the winter snow... Don't know what everyone's problems were TBH, just got to drive smoothly and it doesn't make much difference whether TC is on or off ::) ::)

Yes, it's a pleasure to a certain extent, but when you have to drive four months in knee-high snow you really miss the summer-like grip  ;)
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: TheBoy on 14 July 2009, 13:02:39
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Quote
Quote
I had similar feelings about the TC, it was too agressive and the car was almost difficult to drive in the winter with the TC on. I had the ECU program updated and there was a really significant change in how the TC acts. Now it seems to be more "tolerable", does what it's supposed to but does not cut out the power too much. You should try to update your software also.

I personally found it a pleasure to drive in the winter snow... Don't know what everyone's problems were TBH, just got to drive smoothly and it doesn't make much difference whether TC is on or off ::) ::)

Yes, it's a pleasure to a certain extent, but when you have to drive four months in knee-high snow you really miss the summer-like grip  ;)
Now I'm jealous - we don't get real snow in this part of the world.  In fact our world stops when we get 10cm of snow  :-[
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Lazydocker on 14 July 2009, 13:06:41
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Quote
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I had similar feelings about the TC, it was too agressive and the car was almost difficult to drive in the winter with the TC on. I had the ECU program updated and there was a really significant change in how the TC acts. Now it seems to be more "tolerable", does what it's supposed to but does not cut out the power too much. You should try to update your software also.

I personally found it a pleasure to drive in the winter snow... Don't know what everyone's problems were TBH, just got to drive smoothly and it doesn't make much difference whether TC is on or off ::) ::)

Yes, it's a pleasure to a certain extent, but when you have to drive four months in knee-high snow you really miss the summer-like grip  ;)
Now I'm jealous - we don't get real snow in this part of the world.  In fact our world stops when we get 10cm of snow  :-[

Sure you mean 10mm of snow! ::) ::) ::)

Too many idiots on the roads in a hurry when a bit of care would suffice >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: JohnM on 14 July 2009, 20:20:59
Quote
...
Pre 1998 cars - cuts 2 cylinders, if that doesn't help, cuts more.

Post 1998 cars - if just one wheel is spinning, will apply brake to that wheel, if that doesn't cure, will start to cut power. If both wheels spinning, will start to cut power.
...
Jamie where does the mini-F/L fit in to this, pre-98?
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Andy B on 14 July 2009, 21:00:41
Quote
Quote
...
Pre 1998 cars - cuts 2 cylinders, if that doesn't help, cuts more.

Post 1998 cars - if just one wheel is spinning, will apply brake to that wheel, if that doesn't cure, will start to cut power. If both wheels spinning, will start to cut power.
...
Jamie where does the mini-F/L fit in to this, pre-98?

No, after 98-ish up to facelift.  :y
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Entwood on 14 July 2009, 21:30:20
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Am i reading this correctly, will the traction control cut in even if it is turned off, or have i misunderstood some of the comments, as i thought off was off . :-/ :-/Very confused---JK


Just remember ... TC is ON by default .. ie .. no TC light on = TC is working .. well waiting to work ... :)

if you press the TC button and the light comes on .. you have just turned the TC OFF !!

It works the opposite way to what a lot of folk think ...  :)
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: TheBoy on 14 July 2009, 21:35:24
Quote
Quote
...
Pre 1998 cars - cuts 2 cylinders, if that doesn't help, cuts more.

Post 1998 cars - if just one wheel is spinning, will apply brake to that wheel, if that doesn't cure, will start to cut power. If both wheels spinning, will start to cut power.
...
Jamie where does the mini-F/L fit in to this, pre-98?
Minifacelift is 1998 and 1999
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: i260 on 14 July 2009, 22:56:28
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I had similar feelings about the TC, it was too agressive and the car was almost difficult to drive in the winter with the TC on. I had the ECU program updated and there was a really significant change in how the TC acts. Now it seems to be more "tolerable", does what it's supposed to but does not cut out the power too much. You should try to update your software also.
Only 2.6/3.2 are updatable, 2.5/3.0 aren't

Where in the UK would I get this update on a 2.6? Would any remapper know what to do?
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: kcl on 15 July 2009, 06:41:58
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Quote
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I had similar feelings about the TC, it was too agressive and the car was almost difficult to drive in the winter with the TC on. I had the ECU program updated and there was a really significant change in how the TC acts. Now it seems to be more "tolerable", does what it's supposed to but does not cut out the power too much. You should try to update your software also.
Only 2.6/3.2 are updatable, 2.5/3.0 aren't

Where in the UK would I get this update on a 2.6? Would any remapper know what to do?

anyone with Tech2 can do this, so it's either someone from this forum with the magic equipment or Vauxhall dealer. You might want to get your gearbox program updated at the same time  :y
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: KillerWatt on 15 July 2009, 08:02:58
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Too many idiots on the roads in a hurry when a bit of care would suffice >:( >:( >:( >:(
Spot on, that's all it's down to  :y
Title: Re: Agressive Traction Control?
Post by: Ironingboard on 15 July 2009, 11:29:47
Are the facelift ABS/TC 5.3's? If so I was under the impression that the TC can be variable, not sure if it has to be programmed to be variable but I know that some cars that used the 5.3's have a variable TC (sport, normal, etc). Anyway I've tried holding down my TC button for a few seconds on my Omega and I swear that the TC changes characteristics..... or maybe its just my foot