Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: damon80 on 14 August 2009, 15:38:24

Title: Grumbling??
Post by: damon80 on 14 August 2009, 15:38:24
Hi Folks,

I've noticed that at motorway speeds in my Miggy, when I lift off the accellerator, there's a grumbling noise.  Put my foot back down to accellerate, and it disappears.

Any ideas??
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Agemo on 14 August 2009, 15:50:34
Given the year, there should be nothing worn. How many miles has she done?
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: damon80 on 14 August 2009, 16:38:02
Done just over 100k
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Agemo on 14 August 2009, 16:39:50
Still would not expect problems.  Have you jacked it up & spun the wheels?  Could be a wheel bearing I suppose, Hope it's not gearbox.
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: tunnie on 14 August 2009, 17:07:22
the noise from the front or back?
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: damon80 on 14 August 2009, 22:42:16
Jacked the back up, no play in any rear wheel bearings.

Noise seems to be coming from the back end.  I did suspect the diff, but I thought that if that was on the way out that it'd make a constant noise?

There's no noise whatsoever below 65mph...
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Andy B on 14 August 2009, 23:30:56
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 I did suspect the diff, but I thought that if that was on the way out that it'd make a constant noise?

There's no noise whatsoever below 65mph...

Have you grabbed hld of the rear of the prop shaft to see if there's any play? My Senator's input shaft nut had backed of so there was a little play in the bearing. I could get it to grumble a it accelerated or slowed down, but if you accelerated enough to just take the weight off the bearing the noise disappeared. Just nipping up the bearing sorted it. If this is your problem don't go mad as there should be a specific preload on the bearing, worked out with rolling torque gauges (inches/lbs) etc that none of us have access to.
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: damon80 on 14 August 2009, 23:53:42
Cheers for the advice Andy - no, ain't tried that.  Will give it a go.

How much play is too much?  Because surely there should be a bit of play to allow for movement of suspension?

And correct me if I'm wrong - if it was a duffed diff, would the noise be constant, as oppose to the symptoms I'm getting?
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Andy B on 14 August 2009, 23:58:05
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Cheers for the advice Andy - no, ain't tried that.  Will give it a go.

How much play is too much?  Because surely there should be a bit of play to allow for movement of suspension?

And correct me if I'm wrong - if it was a duffed diff, would the noise be constant, as oppose to the symptoms I'm getting?

You should just have a small amount of loading on the taper bearings on the input to the diff, and NO movement of the input shaft. It's unlikely that the diff will be shot so soon even if the input bearing is slightly slack. Have look at what moves on the suspension re the diff in put, the movement of the suspension doesn't have a bearing (no pun intended  ;D) on the diff input shaft.  :y
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 15 August 2009, 00:00:59
This might seem a silly suggestion, but is the exhaust system sound at the back end?

Chased such a rumbling myself for a while until the blow got a bit less subtle. ::)

Kevin
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: damon80 on 15 August 2009, 00:07:11
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Cheers for the advice Andy - no, ain't tried that.  Will give it a go.

How much play is too much?  Because surely there should be a bit of play to allow for movement of suspension?

And correct me if I'm wrong - if it was a duffed diff, would the noise be constant, as oppose to the symptoms I'm getting?

You should just have a small amount of loading on the taper bearings on the input to the diff, and NO movement of the input shaft. It's unlikely that the diff will be shot so soon even if the input bearing is slightly slack. Have look at what moves on the suspension re the diff in put, the movement of the suspension doesn't have a bearing (no pun intended  ;D) on the diff input shaft.  :y

Jeez, what's that in English, Andy??!!  Bearing in mind that I'm somewhat spanner-shy  :-[
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: damon80 on 15 August 2009, 00:10:38
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This might seem a silly suggestion, but is the exhaust system sound at the back end?

Chased such a rumbling myself for a while until the blow got a bit less subtle. ::)

Kevin

Exhaust is getting ready for replacement tbh Kevin, but it's defo a mechanical sound as oppose to an exhaust blow.

Also, if I go over a bump on the motorway, when the load is taken off the suspension, the noise goes.  Once the suspension settles, back comes the noise...
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Pete Elite on 15 August 2009, 01:22:46
As Kevin suggested it may be a loose baffle in one of the exhaust boxes, try giving each box a thump with a clenched fist :-/.
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: sassanach on 15 August 2009, 10:50:26
you haven't recently put any wanli ditchfinders tyres on by any chance? ;D
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Andy B on 15 August 2009, 18:17:48
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Cheers for the advice Andy - no, ain't tried that.  Will give it a go.

How much play is too much?  Because surely there should be a bit of play to allow for movement of suspension?

And correct me if I'm wrong - if it was a duffed diff, would the noise be constant, as oppose to the symptoms I'm getting?

You should just have a small amount of loading on the taper bearings on the input to the diff, and NO movement of the input shaft. It's unlikely that the diff will be shot so soon even if the input bearing is slightly slack. Have look at what moves on the suspension re the diff in put, the movement of the suspension doesn't have a bearing (no pun intended  ;D) on the diff input shaft.  :y

Jeez, what's that in English, Andy??!!  Bearing in mind that I'm somewhat spanner-shy  :-[

If you remove the 3 bolts at the diff end of the prop shaft and swing it to one side you can see the nut holding the diff input flange in place. On my Senator this nut was loose, it shouldn't have been, but don't tighten any ,ore than a nip, otherwise you'll bugger the input shaft bearings up.  :y  :y  ;)
Any better Damon? ::)  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Andy H on 15 August 2009, 21:29:17
The traditional cause of this kind of noise is soft engine mounts and a badly fitted exhaust that makes metal to metal contact under certain conditions. The noise often sounds like some major mechanical component about to need expensive attention.

The diff is mounted in a subframe with rubber mountings. The subframe has to be lowered to change the road springs. Soggy mountings or loose bolts might allow the diff to move around & make odd noises.
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: damon80 on 15 August 2009, 22:55:27
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Cheers for the advice Andy - no, ain't tried that.  Will give it a go.

How much play is too much?  Because surely there should be a bit of play to allow for movement of suspension?

And correct me if I'm wrong - if it was a duffed diff, would the noise be constant, as oppose to the symptoms I'm getting?

You should just have a small amount of loading on the taper bearings on the input to the diff, and NO movement of the input shaft. It's unlikely that the diff will be shot so soon even if the input bearing is slightly slack. Have look at what moves on the suspension re the diff in put, the movement of the suspension doesn't have a bearing (no pun intended  ;D) on the diff input shaft.  :y

Jeez, what's that in English, Andy??!!  Bearing in mind that I'm somewhat spanner-shy  :-[

If you remove the 3 bolts at the diff end of the prop shaft and swing it to one side you can see the nut holding the diff input flange in place. On my Senator this nut was loose, it shouldn't have been, but don't tighten any ,ore than a nip, otherwise you'll bugger the input shaft bearings up.  :y  :y  ;)
Any better Damon? ::)  ;D  ;D

Yep, much better thanks Andy!  ;D
I'll have a gander int morning.  Cheers bud
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: damon80 on 15 August 2009, 22:59:12
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The traditional cause of this kind of noise is soft engine mounts and a badly fitted exhaust that makes metal to metal contact under certain conditions. The noise often sounds like some major mechanical component about to need expensive attention.

The diff is mounted in a subframe with rubber mountings. The subframe has to be lowered to change the road springs. Soggy mountings or loose bolts might allow the diff to move around & make odd noises.

Hmmm, now that's a thought...  I've noticed that if I "blip" the throttle when stationary, the car rocks from side to side - not a great deal, but much more noticable than in my last Omega.

Could this point to soft engine mounts maybe?
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Andy H on 15 August 2009, 23:11:27
1. I allowed my local garage to replace the pinion oil seal on my carlton (Omega A)(very similar diff with crush spacer between input shaft bearings). The diff was scrap after 30 miles because they did the nut up until it felt 'tight'. The input spider is on extremely tight splines, the nut is a self locking nut. If the nut has come loose you need to look for the reason why.

2. Try moving your tail pipe around with the engine ticking over, are all the rubber mounts in position and in good condition? has the exhaust system broken in two pieces? There are so many supports that a broken exhaust won't fall off but it will make strange noises. Does the exhaust make contact with parts of the suspension or body if you bounce it up and down?
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Andy H on 15 August 2009, 23:20:29
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The traditional cause of this kind of noise is soft engine mounts and a badly fitted exhaust that makes metal to metal contact under certain conditions. The noise often sounds like some major mechanical component about to need expensive attention.

The diff is mounted in a subframe with rubber mountings. The subframe has to be lowered to change the road springs. Soggy mountings or loose bolts might allow the diff to move around & make odd noises.

Hmmm, now that's a thought...  I've noticed that if I "blip" the throttle when stationary, the car rocks from side to side - not a great deal, but much more noticable than in my last Omega.

Could this point to soft engine mounts maybe?
Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that your engine had soft engine mounts, I was trying to draw attention to the ways in which rubber mounted items can make alarming noises if you get metal to metal contact.
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: Andy B on 16 August 2009, 14:43:10
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..... the nut is a self locking nut. If the nut has come loose you need to look for the reason why. ......

It's a long time ago now,  but I'm sure that my Senator's wasn't a lock nut.  :-/ Possibly it should have been, it would make sence to me if it had been. I used a squirt of Locktite on my nut!  ::)  :y  :y
Title: Re: Grumbling??
Post by: 3.2 manual on 27 August 2009, 00:07:19
what about propshaft whirl? the centre bearing on the shaft, dont know if this is a problem or even present on these, then but my carlton had one go at about 120000 miles