Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: mark3 on 18 August 2009, 15:39:15

Title: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 18 August 2009, 15:39:15
2.5 V6, when on M25 white smoke from exhaust when throttle pressed, got home with a misfire and temperasture spiked but not too high.

loads of mayo under oil cap BUT sniff test proves negative!! unless i been sold blue water, lol

oh and bubbles from expansion bottle too but sniff test liquid stays blue!!!!!

What do we think? im gonna strip it tomorrow as it needed for the weekend.....

your thoughts?
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: tunnie on 18 August 2009, 15:49:28
does it missfire from cold, but then clear?
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: feeutfo on 18 August 2009, 17:44:27
any water in the oil? Check dip stick for white deposits/mayo.
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 18 August 2009, 19:56:31
Hi again, i dont know as of yet if it misfires from cold, the fault occured at motorway speed and i limped home, i have just checked oil on dip stick and it looks just fine even though theres mayo on underside of oil cap!!
I tried a bars seals to cure leaking rad a few weeks ago but to no avail and replaced the rad on Saturday, i did notice a lot of what looked like melted chocolate particles in the coolant and assumed it the remnants of bars seal and flusked it out before adding fresh anti freeze BUT i may well be oil from defective oil cooler?? would a defective oil cooler let moisture into the breather system for it to be burned and come from exhaust as steam? if so im guessing this would also cause a mis fire too.... hmmm!! maybe il start with oil cooler?
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: feeutfo on 18 August 2009, 21:42:54
oil in coolent  def oil cooler related.
High temp could be either hg or cooler.
White smoke could be hg or alot of short journeys combined with the high temp....maybe?
Clean oil would suggest hg ok imho.

See what others say....
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 18 August 2009, 21:55:58
It happened 10 miles from the end of a 240 mile trip, and the journeys have been nothing but long for ages! average 100 miles!!

an oil cooler letting oil into water and vice versa i can understand but would it cause white smoke from exhaust when throttle pressed?? if bad enough for water to go into crank breather system and then get burnt?

Im hoping its oil cooler off course but i suspect other wise... its my luck! will see what tomorrow brings....
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: sassanach on 18 August 2009, 23:52:08
as far as im concerned you are overdue for a headgasket job from 100,000+ anyway despite what you hear on here about the rarity of failures
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 19 August 2009, 00:21:42
Quote
as far as im concerned you are overdue for a headgasket job from 100,000+ anyway despite what you hear on here about the rarity of failures

In my personal experience, I'd have to agree - (especially on 3.0 models 1998 +)  ::)
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 20 August 2009, 08:43:55
Yesterdays stripping was delayed by work, so todays the day for a good strip down, wish me luck, wish me oil cooler, lol
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 20 August 2009, 09:38:19
If you're getting steady bubbling from the header tank that's not due to boiling or trapped air then it does point to HG. Ditto white smoke from the exhaust.

Each fire ring on these engines is surrounded by water jacket so the head gasket can only blow into the water hence oil normally stays clear.

Exhaust fumes blown into the water jacket can contaminate the coolant with a sludgy brown substance IME. Might pay to do the oil cooler, or at least inspect it very carefully while you're there though.

Kevin
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 20 August 2009, 13:11:17
Oh joy!!!!! ...............NOT, lol

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/200820091939.jpg)

Off with its heads! havent i read that somewhere before just recently? lol
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: ScottieMV6 on 20 August 2009, 14:17:01
Yes that would be me!

Done just over 100K and head gaskes weren't pretty!

Good luck (sure you won't need it being a mechanic)! :y
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 20 August 2009, 22:23:56
What a **** of a job! oh my god it was horrid but hopefully refitting will be better, it usually is..

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/200820091953.jpg)

One cam from each head had to come out to get to head bolts!
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/200820091959.jpg)

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/200820091964.jpg)

Its defo head gasket on two cylinders of this head!
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/200820091961.jpg)

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/200820091962.jpg)

There both off, 7 hours! bloody horrid job!
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/200820091972.jpg)

But my god the crap i have removed to get to this point?
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/200820091969.jpg)

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/200820091970.jpg)

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/200820091971.jpg)

Toyota Supra 7MGTE head gaskets are positively simple to do after these!!!
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 August 2009, 09:27:40
Might be worth removing and re-sealing the oil cooler and thermostat while you're there. Looks like something has been making a mess down in the middle of the vee.

Glad the diagnosis was correct.

Kevin
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: Wayne on 22 August 2009, 00:08:06
Oh jesus, hope mine aint like that! 

where can i get that "do it yourself" test kit to test my coolant tank to see if it changes colour, indicating my head gaskets gone?
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: feeutfo on 22 August 2009, 00:42:30
Quote
Oh jesus, hope mine aint like that! 

where can i get that "do it yourself" test kit to test my coolant tank to see if it changes colour, indicating my head gaskets gone?
turn it in Wayne..... ;D ;D ;D ;D     ;)
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 25 August 2009, 05:54:07
right, after a crap weekend with everything going wrong i got back to to Omega, the oil cooler cover plate was eaten through by corrosion and its available from the main dealer, when i removed it from cooler i found that was eaten away too so the whole thing is being replaced at a cost of £120+vat
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 25 August 2009, 15:21:47
At last, a propper laptop, mine is dead and been using my phone... got the n/s head back on, air pump pipes back in, oil cooler on and pipes connected, the worse bolt in the hole worldl is the one that holds engine lift bracket/dip stick pipe/bottom hose pipe!! what a swine to get that in!!

o/s head to go do now it stopped raining, hi ho, hi ho, off to fit head i go....
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 25 August 2009, 16:07:56
Quote
...the worse bolt in the hole worldl is the one that holds engine lift bracket/dip stick pipe/bottom hose pipe!! what a swine to get that in!!

They don't call it the bastrad bolt for nothing. ;D

Quote
o/s head to go do now it stopped raining, hi ho, hi ho, off to fit head i go....

You've broken the back of it now.  :y

Kevin
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 26 August 2009, 09:05:09
got both heads on, loads of pipework, inlet storks and jector fuel rail, cam covers, belt back plate and belt too, water pump back in as well.
the head gasket set i got i was very disapointed in, its a FAI gasket set (apparently good quality) but the cam cover seals where from a 3.0L not a 2.5L so didnt fit and a lot of seals for things that have to come off where not included either!
il post some pics when i get my new laptop later today, that packed up too and using neighbours  right now........... what a sh!t week its been.........

Got a brand new oil cooler in too, the old one being eaten alive by corrosion on the actual rad and cover plate which i assumed was down to lack of antifreeze (corrosion inhibitor) BUT i  think its down to crap quality materials, ally ect as much many other parts of the engine are in really quitre good nick, the water pump and impellors espesially look brand new!!
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 27 August 2009, 11:12:20
At last got some pics (laptop problems) the oil cooler had seen better days (as previously mentioned)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/going%20back%20together/240820091986.jpg)

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/going%20back%20together/240820091988.jpg)

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/going%20back%20together/250820092007.jpg)

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/going%20back%20together/240820091994.jpg)

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/going%20back%20together/250820092010.jpg)

And i no what yout thinking "gasket sealer on a head gasket" ??  well yes and no i put some just around the outside edge as there was evidence of water loss through it in the past in quite a few places around both heads! it didnt go no where near the fire rings!

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/going%20back%20together/250820092011.jpg)

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb254/broad55/Omega/Head%20gasket%20repair/going%20back%20together/250820092019.jpg)



Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 27 August 2009, 20:12:48
One bit of advice - refit 135 first and 246 afterwards easier to get to the coolant pipe
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: albitz on 27 August 2009, 20:17:59
Looks like he,s already fitted both of them. ::)
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 28 August 2009, 08:27:37
135 and 246???  what is these?

and now i have a misfire, think (hope) a set of leads will cure it, il fit them today!
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: Andy H on 28 August 2009, 08:40:32
1,3,5 - cylinders on drivers side

2,4,6 - cylinders on passenger side
Title: Re: Suspect head gaskets?
Post by: mark3 on 28 August 2009, 11:46:23
Ahhh! 135 cylinder numbers! doh!! lol

i spose it may have been a touch easier to get to the water pipe bolets on rear of block by leaving n/h till last tBUT it wasnt the most dificult thing i had to get to! hopefully il never need to use that advice again EVER!!!
set of plug leads are £28 inc so il fit them as matter of course, oh and you may all be interested to know the oil cooler price at local spare shop was £211, that was special pricew to me, main dealer wanted £109 inc! for the whole thing!!