Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: RichardH on 29 April 2009, 19:56:14
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Right,
Driving home this evening in my 2001 2.2DTi when the emissions light popped on (the one with the engine symbol, I think the bulb was taken out of the EML socket as it never lights up).
The car dropped revs, and was in what I assume was limp home mode. I pulled over and turned the car off. Left it a minute and restarted. The car starts after turning over for about a second or two, but the check light comes on and it idles roughly. (i.e revs seem to rise and fall very slightly). The car does not want to rev, even if you push accelerator to the floor.
So I turned the car off and called the AA. I was told it would be about an hour before they arrived. After sitting in the car for about 40mins I tried starting the engine again, and everything was back to normal and revving freely. I decided to wait for the AA man so he could read the codes to find out what caused the problem.
AA man turns up, and hooks up his code reader. He could not get a successful connection. Then while he was doing his stuff and the car was idling, the issue reappeared. At the same time that the issue reappeared, the cd player came on and starting playing a CD, but the audio was messed up, it seemed to be speeding up and down so it was like the singer was singing fast, then slow, then fast again. And then the engine gave one big rev all of its own.
Anyway, AA man tried a few things to get his reader to connect, but he was not able. He tried revving the car but it really did not want to, and there were clouds of white smoke coming from the exhaust when he put the accelerator down.
Got the car towed home and tried connecting my own code reader which never had a problem connecting before, but it too failed. When I started the car here at home, it seems fine again but I really don't trust it.
I need the car for work so I will need to send it to a dealer tomorrow. I am afraid that they may diagnose something incorrectly like the ECU as I don't really trust dealers diagnosis from reading past experiences here.
So I am wondering if anyone has an idea of what path to take to troubleshoot this?
Thanks for your help.
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Yes ... stay away from dealers ... no doubt they will say ECU ... anyone near you with a genuine tech 2 ??
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Unfortunately no Tech 2 near me so I really have no choice but visit the dealer. I suppose even if I just get them to read the code it will be something.
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Well the car is at the dealers now so I am waiting to see what they have to say about the problem. I drove the car there this morning and it was fine for the first six or seven miles, but then the light came on, the rev counter dropped to zero, and I was in limp home mode.
Managed to get the car to the garage, and hoping now they diagnose something inexpensive!
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There are other things you can buy from Egay that will plug into your car via a laptop and do almost everything a tech 2 can do .. "My Naff Code Reader" is one that i have and will cost you a fraction of what a dealer will charge for a few hours on there machines.
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Sounds like crank sensor fault which is common on those 2.2 and 2.0 variants. Not all dealers are bad >:( i work in one....
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Sounds like crank sensor fault which is common on those 2.2 and 2.0 variants. Not all dealers are bad >:( i work in one....
I know mate, and to be fair, the dealers I go to are not bad blokes at all. The only thing is that they are not used to working on Omega's as they are fairly rare in Ireland, and therefore might not have the intimate knowledge that a lot of people here would.
Is the crank sensor fault an common issue on the 2.2 diesels as well?
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There are other things you can buy from Egay that will plug into your car via a laptop and do almost everything a tech 2 can do .. "My Naff Code Reader" is one that i have and will cost you a fraction of what a dealer will charge for a few hours on there machines.
I have two code readers here and neither managed to successfully connect. One is the ELM327 and the other is a handheld U380. Both of these have worked in the past. And to be honest I need the car back as quick as possible and can't afford to wait around to buy something from Ebay.
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Sounds like crank sensor fault which is common on those 2.2 and 2.0 variants. Not all dealers are bad >:( i work in one....
Not all dealers are bad i work in one
Yup.... point taken :-[ .... my local lot were very good as well to be honest untill i had a problem where they wanted to change a specific part when i knew full well that wasn't what the problem was .... lately they seem to not want the "old" Omega spoiling the look of there bays ... only seem interested in the newer cars . :-/
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Ive fitted loads of crank sensors to vectras astras and a couple of omegas, usually when the rev counter stops thats a sign that crank sensor is faulty, shame your not closer as id take a look, your dealer shouldnt charge too much just for a diagnosis.
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Sounds like crank sensor fault which is common on those 2.2 and 2.0 variants. Not all dealers are bad >:( i work in one....
I know mate, and to be fair, the dealers I go to are not bad blokes at all. The only thing is that they are not used to working on Omega's as they are fairly rare in Ireland, ......
You want to try taking a Senator in to the dealers there. He (Opel dealer near Bantry Bay) reckoned there were only a handfull over there. They didn't fix the fault, ABS light was on, (was a relay in the end) but they couldn't have been more helpfull.
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Ive fitted loads of crank sensors to vectras astras and a couple of omegas, usually when the rev counter stops thats a sign that crank sensor is faulty, shame your not closer as id take a look, your dealer shouldnt charge too much just for a diagnosis.
why then if you unplug the ABS unit does the rev counter stop working? and if you d/c the crank sensor does the engine cut out but rev counter still works?
i think the omega uses the ABS system for revs & speed
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Right, just got a call from the dealer.
They were not able to get their Tech 2 to connect. Apparently it will only let them in so far but it won't let them fully into the ECU. They also have a second reader (Bosch) which again fails to connect.
So they are diagnosing ECU at fault. And even if they replace the ECU, they are not guaranteeing that there is still not another underlying problem.
Cost of new ECU, with installation and programming €1,500 Euro! I really am in a pickle now as to be honest the car is not worth much more than that.
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One of the breakers on here may be able to supply a second hand ecu :y
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The thing that gets me is the fact that your CD Player started playing funny beggars when the problem occurred - sounds like a scene out of "Christine"!
But it defo seems like there's some elect-trickery going on somewhere...
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Check the abttery an charge voltage plus the battery connections and 0V connection below the battery tray
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The thing that gets me is the fact that your CD Player started playing funny beggars when the problem occurred - sounds like a scene out of "Christine"!
But it defo seems like there's some elect-trickery going on somewhere...
I wish the car was haunted, an exorcism might be cheaper!
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Ask yourself this.
Given that the ECU is nothing more than a processor.....if it was breaked, how would the engine run?
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Ask yourself this.
Given that the ECU is nothing more than a processor.....if it was breaked, how would the engine run?
Mark, Have you come across not being able to read an ECU before where the cause of this was something else?
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Check the abttery an charge voltage plus the battery connections and 0V connection below the battery tray
Sorry, missed this post. Car is at the dealer now so I can't check. I think I need to get it home and check a few things with your suggestions before I spend big bucks.
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I think you'd probably be well advised to get the car back from the dealers bud, before they start replacing parts that don't need replacing...
In my mind, it is definately an electrical issue as oppose to an ECU issue (just as MDTM said).
Do you have a friendly local auto-electrician at all? The one local to me (obviously of no use to you whatsoever!) helped me get to the root of a problem I was having with a Jeep I used to have, that the main dealer was clueless over...
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Well I have collected the car and taken it home before I decide one way or another what to do.
I have checked all the battery connections and they all seem to be fine, including the 0V. I did a check on the voltages with a voltmeter and they all seem to be in range.
Car off: 12.8v
Car on (idle): 13.8V
Car on with load (idle): 13.7V
When I collected the car, I got chatting to a salesman who said that I could send the ECU off to a repair centre where they would check and see if it was working correctly. So barring anything else I can check myself I may have to do this.
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Aye, them voltages all seem bang-on to me.
A total long-shot, and I'd show me backside if it works, but gotta be worth a try... Try disconnecting your battery (both the +ve and -ve lead) overnight. Then hook them back up in the morning and see if the problem's still there.
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Aye, them voltages all seem bang-on to me.
A total long-shot, and I'd show me backside if it works, but gotta be worth a try... Try disconnecting your battery (both the +ve and -ve lead) overnight. Then hook them back up in the morning and see if the problem's still there.
Certainly can't hurt so I will give it a try!
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Fingers crossed for you bud :y
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No luck I am afraid. Disconnected battery all night and went for a drive but the issue appeared again. It seems to be very consistent and always happens after 4 or 5 miles driving. Very frustrating.
If anyone has any other ideas I would be very grateful!
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Sorry pal - but saves me having to show my backside I suppose...!
I take it all fuses, relays etc are ok??
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Not all dealers are bad >:( i work in one....
Live in Bournemouth, the local 'dealer' (Seward) are a bunch of T****RS, just soooooo stupid!!! Made the mistake of taking my omega to them, as I work very near them, and the told me they couldn't sort out the problem.... and they SELL the cars FFS!! >:(
PS, which dealer do you work for in Weymouth? Not the Vauxhall one, Lanehouse, by any chance?? They've been reccomended to me, and am down in Weymouth next weekend, so might try them!! :y
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Sorry pal - but saves me having to show my backside I suppose...!
I take it all fuses, relays etc are ok??
Fuses are all ok, but to be honest I don't know how to check the relays. Took it out this morning, and right around 4 miles it happened again. What the hell is happening at this time to cause this! :-/
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Well I have run out of ideas, so I am sending the ECU off to get it checked out. they may be able to reflash it and get it back running properly, that is if it was causing the problem in the first place.
Either way, it will at least confirm whether it is working correctly or not.
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Well I have just received word from the ECU repair centre who say that after extensive diagnostics and stress testing, the ECU is fine and was never broken.
So it is in the mail back to me so that I can try it again. In the meantime, seeing as none of the code readers were able to connect, I thought that maybe the diagnostics port itself was faulty. I have just had a look at it there now and it seems fine, and all of the wires have solid connections to the pins on the back. I can't see any break's in the wiring loom either.
Anybody got an idea of what to check next? All help appreciated!
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Apologies for bringing this up again, but I really don't know what my next step should be.
I have just received the ECU back from the repair centre. They have tested it and confirmed that it is working fine. I replaced it in the car and went for a drive. The same issue appears after 4/5 miles. I still cannot connect to the ECU with my code reader to read the codes.
I have recorded a video of the problem which I hope might give you guys an idea of what the problem is. Volume is not great so you may have to turn your speakers up. At about 15 seconds I push the accelerator flat to the floor and you can see what happens.
http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t30/celtxx/?action=view¤t=Omega.flv
Does anyone know what might be happening electrically at around 4/5 miles as it consistently fails at this point every time when the car is driven from cold?
As always, any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Richard
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Could a faulty crank sensor cause these symptoms?
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Bumping it up a little bit seeing as it's gone all quiet in this thread!
I have been ringing around some mechanics today and a few have said that just because the ECU tested ok at the repair centre, it still does not mean there is not an issue with it.
I rang the local dealer who I went to initially to try and get the codes read. He has told me that they could actually connect partially to the ECU, but were not able to read codes or do anything else. In my mind this rules out the wiring of the diagnostic port as being the issue. He has suggested a cheaper option of getting a second hand ECU and trying that out becuase I am not prepared to spend the big bucks on a brand new one just in case it was not the problem.
So does anyone know of a 2.2dti in a breakers? I need the ECU, immobiliser ring from ignition barrel, and transponder chip from key. I have already tried a few online breakers but they can only provide me with the ECU and not the other bits.
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Forgive me here Richard,this is a long shot and as i know nothing about the 2.2 DTi i could be well off....
To me that looks like a pump problem,but im no expert...
I use to drive a Mitsubishi Pajero 2.8TD,now a common fault on these were pump seals...the car would drive for a few minutes then chuck it,
I know its not exactly what you are getting but it is vaguely similar
????????
A long shot i know mate
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Thank's Ian, even long shots are appreciated at this stage! :-)
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So does anyone know of a 2.2dti in a breakers? I need the ECU, immobiliser ring from ignition barrel, and transponder chip from key. I have already tried a few online breakers but they can only provide me with the ECU and not the other bits.
http://www.thomsonlocal.com/Campbell's-Dismantlers/0304686801101345000/map/companyinfo.html
Pretty sure it was a diesel I saw in their yard on Mon, as it was a facelift I assume it was a 2.2dti - still pretty much intact.
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Cheers Andy, I will give them a buzz.
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my 2001dti does exactly the same thing my code reader does not give any codes so i am tempted to go to the dealers however i use the car for caravan towing mostly and can wait please post the conclusion if there is one i would be most grateful
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I am afraid I have not managed to solve this problem. The car has been parked up for the last few months as no mechanic seems to be able to sort it out for me. I am trying to source a second hand ECU as I can't afford to gamble over €1000 on a new one on the off chance it is the ECU.
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Well I have collected the car and taken it home before I decide one way or another what to do.
I have checked all the battery connections and they all seem to be fine, including the 0V. I did a check on the voltages with a voltmeter and they all seem to be in range.
Car off: 12.8v
Car on (idle): 13.8V
Car on with load (idle): 13.7V
When I collected the car, I got chatting to a salesman who said that I could send the ECU off to a repair centre where they would check and see if it was working correctly. So barring anything else I can check myself I may have to do this.
Have you checked the voltages when the car is playing up.
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Have another look at the diag socket, I had problems after trying a cheapo tech 2, it had much thicker pins than the oem and bent the diag socket contacts back too far.
You can release each contact blade in turn by using a small drill bit (0.8mm?) pushed into a notch next to the contact (I cant remember if this was from the front or back of the connector).
Bent contacts are obvious and you soon recognise which ones need opening out slightly.
This should fix any comms problems.
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success i first replaced the temperture sensor the one with the 2 pin plug made no differance,moved on to the crankshaft sensor and replaced that (easy) the car now performs normally test drive on dual carriageway and in town for 50miles i am not refitting the under engine cover just yet though.The sensor was £24+vat euro car parts the old one was a boschs and lasted for 65k about 8 years old i think that these units must be temperture sensitive but i do not know why try this before replacing the ecu (save money) :)
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I wasjust about to say temperature sensor. Its a well known GM fault that goes back years. I had the smae problem (on all things!) on my Chevy Camaro 5.7. 4-5 miles nothing and then misfiring, stuttering conking out. Limp home. I replaced everything and then a real expert told me. £6.00 later and the problem has never returned. The sensor, if faulty believes that the engine is cold when it is in fact hot and therefore forces the ECU into acting like the car is on cold start up. Replace this before anything else. :y
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I am afraid I have not managed to solve this problem. The car has been parked up for the last few months as no mechanic seems to be able to sort it out for me. I am trying to source a second hand ECU as I can't afford to gamble over €1000 on a new one on the off chance it is the ECU.
First of all, are the workshop using a genuine tech when they try to connect to the car?
Do you have any chiptuners nearby?
They can hook up to the ecu and read out the type of ecu, sw, and hw numbers.
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Do the temp sensor. I'd wager money it was that. What have you got to lose? you can do it yourself and its gonna cost you £30
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Certainly will be worth a try. I'll get a temp sensor and see if solves the problem. If it turns out to be this simple then I won't know whether to laugh or cry.
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please read note 42 again as it was the crankshaft sensor that did the trick for my car not the the temperture one :'( :y