Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: mark.adams on 07 September 2009, 10:57:36
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Fitted new O2 sensor as "My Naff Code Reader" had reported it as failed, no errors now but failed emissions on idle on both LPG and petrol...
Any ideas??
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Can you post the readings from the emission test report? perhaps we can deduce something from it.
Kevin
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natural idle CO max limit 0.5 actual value 5.088
fast idle max limit 0.3 actual value 0.460
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natural idle CO max limit 0.5 actual value 5.088
fast idle max limit 0.3 actual value 0.460
:o That must be running seriously rich. Does it run smoothly? Any fault codes reported by the ECU? Does the car drive OK?
Kevin
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What condition is the air filter in?
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It's a little lumpy occasionally, the only fault reported was the O2 sensor and hasn't been reported since i replaced it over the weekend...
that was sensor 1 heater failed, so i replaced it and the error never came back
What causes it to run rich??
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What condition is the air filter in?
Good point, i hadn't checked that, i'll replace it as it hasn't been changed recently
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Could the cat be suspect, i recently replaced the exhaust from cat back...
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I would say with a CO level that high, there needs to be a problem with the mixture the engine's burning. Pre-cat CO levels are typically less than 2% IME.
Kevin
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soooo if its running too rich, that means there's too much fuel and not enough air, as it does it on LPG as well as petrol that rules out the injectors (the LPG is a mixer system) i am looking at not enough air getting in.... does that sound right??
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Did you ever clean the breathers and the egr valve?
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What does "My Naff Code Reader" say the coolant temperature is?
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Breathers have definitely been cleaned, EGR valve was replaced as had a fault and then promptly blanked off with a coke can gasket.
I'll check the coolant temp reading when i get home although i haven't noticed it being wildly wrong recently... It starts okay with revs a little higher than normal until it warms up a bit then settles down as i would expect. Wife said it was quite a smoky exhaust when in the test station today.
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Remember, we are looking for the ECU coolant temp, not the instrument panel reading :y
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Okay i have "My Naff Code Reader" on it now and the engine temp according to the ecu is matching the temp gauge on the dash almost exactly.
air fuel ratio bank1 sensor1 is flicking back and forward from lean to rich whilst b1s2 is solid on lean, on tickover at 757 revs
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It sound like the cold start is staying on ( choke open)
Have you changed the plugs and air filter?
is the air passage blocked somewhere ie from filter on to engine?
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Just read this link not to sure but very similar to your prob.
is your exhaust ok? not blowing anywhere doesnt matter how small.
have a read it might help
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1251054939/15
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Thank you, i saw that thread earlier, the exhaust was replaced before all this began.
Here's a revelation, i took the air filter out and the B1S1 value that was all over the place has settled down, could that be it???
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You can only try it :-/
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Mark.....whats the temp reading from the engine ECU?
Lets diag this properly rather than taking (mechanic like) stabs!)
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you can save all the readings to a file with 1 click in "My Naff Code Reader".....how about posting that up :y
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you can save all the readings to a file with 1 click in "My Naff Code Reader".....how about posting that up :y
Just looked at that, the record button is greyed out. i could save the fault codes, but there aren't any...
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you should be able to save live data to file....pm sent
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Mark.....whats the temp reading from the engine ECU?
Lets diag this properly rather than taking (mechanic like) stabs!)
Ok outside temp from dash 22 degrees.
coolant temp from gauge 90 degrees
coolant temp from ecu 96 degrees cooling fan on
B1S1 heater active, ratio lean around 600mv
B1S2 heater active, ratio lean 392mv
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If you can save ALL the live data it might help. Coolant temp. looks to be reasonable there so I guess we need to look further afield.
Kevin
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What is the consensus of opinion regarding the possibility that O2 sensor 2 is duff...
Would that give me the symptoms i am seeing?
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"My Naff Code Reader" 090714 - PC based diagnostic tool
Date and time>,08/09/2009. 17:21
Workshop information:
Marks Omega
Selected model>,2002,Omega-B,Engine,Z 22 XE
Control Unit:
Keyword #1: EF
Keyword #2: 8F
Normal timing parameter set.
systemSupplierSpecific: L
VIN: W0L0VBM6931053222
vehicleManufacturerECUHardwareNumber 24426542 DG
systemSupplierECUHardwareNumber: SIE 0116004500
systemSupplierECUSoftwareNumber: 6586055136
systemSupplierECUSoftwareVersionNumber: 0701
exhaustRegulationOrTypeApprovalNumber: S01003
systemNameOrEngineType: Z22XE
RepairShopCodeOrTesterSerialNumber: Not programmed
ProgrammingDate: FFFFFFFF
Identifier: 1606
CalibrationDate: O109301C
CalibrationEquipmentSoftwareNumber: l2c9300a
ECUInstallationDate: 6586055204
VehicleManufacturerSpecific: 3200
Measuring blocks information:
Battery Voltage,13.7 V
Main Relay,Active
Fuel Pump Relay,Active
APP Sensor 1 (Accelerator Pedal Position),1.00 V
APP Sensor 2 (Accelerator Pedal Position),0.49 V
Calculated Pedal Position,0 %
TP Sensor 1 (Throttle Position),0.61 V
TP Sensor 2 (Throttle Position),4.43 V
Calculated Throttle Position,6 %
Throttle Position,Idle
Engine Speed,820 RPM
Mass Air Flow Sensor,1.00 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor,17 kg/h
Coolant Temperature,2.92 V
Coolant Temperature,54 °C
Intake Air Temperature,1.69 V
Intake Air Temperature,27 °C
Tank Sensor,7.10 V
Park/Neutral Switch,P - N 0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning),Inactive
A/C Load Signal (Air Conditioning),Inactive
Brake Switch 1,Inactive
Brake Switch 2,Inactive
Vehicle Speed,0 km/h
Cruise Control Tip Switch,Active
Cruise Control,Inactive
Vehicle Speed in Cruise Control Range,Inactive
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation),Inactive
EGR Position Command (Exhaust- Gas Recirculation),10 %
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation),0.76 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve,3 %
Knock Control,Inactive
B1S1 O2 Sensor Heater (Bank 1 Sensor 1),Active
B1S1 O2 Sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 1),745 mV
B1S1 Air/Fuel Ratio (Bank 1 Sensor 1),Rich
B1S2 O2 Sensor Heater (Bank 1 Sensor 2),Active
B1S2 O2 Sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 2),412 mV
B1S2 Air/Fuel Ratio (Bank 1 Sensor 2),Lean
O2 Sensor Loop,Closed
B1 Short Term Fuel Trim (Bank 1),3 %
A/C Relay (Air Conditioning),Inactive
A/C Cutoff Mode (Air Conditioning),System OK
Malfunction Indicator (MI),Off
Service Vehicle Soon (SVS) Indicator,Off
Engine Speed,820 RPM
Desired Idle Speed,800 RPM
Idle Speed Offset,Inactive
Vehicle Acceleration,0.0 m/s2
Ignition Dwell Angle,2.1 ms
Injector Time,4.2 ms
Ignition Spark Angle,2.7 °CA
B1 Knock Sensor Signal (Bank 1),0.4 V
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 1,0 °CA
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 2,0 °CA
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 3,0 °CA
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 4,0 °CA
Relative Engine Load,8 %
Normal Engine Operating Temperature,Inactive
ETC Limp Home Mode (Electronic Throttle Control),Inactive
Electronic Throttle Control Learn Counter,0
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve,Inactive
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Anybody got any ideas on this??
Lambda 1 changed, air filter removed (temporarily)
still runs rich
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Coolant Temperature,54 °C
Looks a bit low. Was it fully warmed up (fans cutting in)? If not, it's very hard to draw any conclusions from the rest of the data, TBH.
Mass Air Flow Sensor,17 kg/h
That doesn't look right. I'd expect around 10kg/h for a 2.2 at idle.
Injector Time,4.2 ms
Looks high for a hot engine idling too. 3 - 3.5 ms more typical.
B1S1 O2 Sensor Heater (Bank 1 Sensor 1),Active
B1S1 O2 Sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 1),745 mV
B1S1 Air/Fuel Ratio (Bank 1 Sensor 1),Rich
B1S2 O2 Sensor Heater (Bank 1 Sensor 2),Active
B1S2 O2 Sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 2),412 mV
B1S2 Air/Fuel Ratio (Bank 1 Sensor 2),Lean
O2 Sensor Loop,Closed
B1 Short Term Fuel Trim (Bank 1),3 %
Don't see how it can be closed loop with only 3% fuel trim when running that rich. Is the O2 sensor 1 bank 1 voltage switching up and down or just stable?
If that engine was fully warmed up I'd say the coolant temperature sensor might be faulty, although that was proved OK in the previous results.
If not, I'd say the MAF is reading high, and causing it to run rich (what happens to emissions and / or live data and running if you disconnect the MAF completely?).
Can't explain why it reports closed loop running and a sensible fuel trim though. :-/
Kevin
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It wasn't fully up to temperature, i'll do that this evening.
The air filter is out at the moment, the O2 sensor bank 1 does cycle up and down all over the place, i wasn't sure if it was supposed to do this.
I will run it again this evening at optimal operating temperature..
Thanks Kevin...
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It wasn't fully up to temperature, i'll do that this evening.
The air filter is out at the moment, the O2 sensor bank 1 does cycle up and down all over the place, i wasn't sure if it was supposed to do this.
I will run it again this evening at optimal operating temperature..
Thanks Kevin...
OK. Give it a run with the MAF disconnected too so we can compare the two (it will raise fault codes, of course).
Kevin
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Here is a little help.
My readings from "My Naff Code Reader" were like this...
MAF 12kg/h
Injector time 2.7 ms
B1S1 bank1 Sensor heater 1 Active
B1S1 bank1 Sensor 1 98 mV
B1S1 bank1 Air/Fuel ratio Rich
B1S2 bank1 Sensor 2 heater 1 Active
B1S2 bank1 Sensor 2 666
B1S2 bank1 Air/Fuel ratio Rich
O2 sensor loop closed
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Here is a little help.
My readings from "My Naff Code Reader" were like this...
MAF 12kg/h
Injector time 2.7 ms
B1S1 bank1 Sensor heater 1 Active
B1S1 bank1 Sensor 1 98 mV
B1S1 bank1 Air/Fuel ratio Rich
B1S2 bank1 Sensor 2 heater 1 Active
B1S2 bank1 Sensor 2 666
B1S2 bank1 Air/Fuel ratio Rich
O2 sensor loop closed
Those readings are what I would have expected. :y
Kevin
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Mark if you need more readings from me to do a cross reference just ask, and I'll try to post them
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HMMMM you say ignition spark angle 2,7 CA
Mine reads 41,6!!!!
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HMMMM you say ignition spark angle 2,7 CA
Mine reads 41,6!!!!
What does this mean?? Is there a possibility my timing is out, would that make it run rich??
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Total number of fault codes: 1
P0304 - Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
(02) - Not present
"My Naff Code Reader" 090714 - PC based diagnostic tool
Date and time>,10/09/2009. 19:47
Workshop information:
Marks Omega
Selected model>,2002,Omega-B,Engine,Z 22 XE
Control Unit:
Keyword #1: EF
Keyword #2: 8F
Normal timing parameter set.
systemSupplierSpecific: L
VIN: W0L0VBM6931053222
vehicleManufacturerECUHardwareNumber 24426542 DG
systemSupplierECUHardwareNumber: SIE 0116004500
systemSupplierECUSoftwareNumber: 6586055136
systemSupplierECUSoftwareVersionNumber: 0701
exhaustRegulationOrTypeApprovalNumber: S01003
systemNameOrEngineType: Z22XE
RepairShopCodeOrTesterSerialNumber: Not programmed
ProgrammingDate: FFFFFFFF
Identifier: 1606
CalibrationDate: O109301C
CalibrationEquipmentSoftwareNumber: l2c9300a
ECUInstallationDate: 6586055204
VehicleManufacturerSpecific: 3200
Measuring blocks information:
Battery Voltage,13.4 V
Main Relay,Active
Fuel Pump Relay,Active
APP Sensor 1 (Accelerator Pedal Position),1.00 V
APP Sensor 2 (Accelerator Pedal Position),0.49 V
Calculated Pedal Position,0 %
TP Sensor 1 (Throttle Position),0.53 V
TP Sensor 2 (Throttle Position),4.51 V
Calculated Throttle Position,4 %
Throttle Position,Idle
Engine Speed,746 RPM
Mass Air Flow Sensor,0.84 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor,11 kg/h
Coolant Temperature,1.50 V
Coolant Temperature,90 °C
Intake Air Temperature,1.27 V
Intake Air Temperature,39 °C
Tank Sensor,6.90 V
Park/Neutral Switch,P - N 0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning),Inactive
A/C Load Signal (Air Conditioning),Inactive
Brake Switch 1,Inactive
Brake Switch 2,Inactive
Vehicle Speed,0 km/h
Cruise Control Tip Switch,Active
Cruise Control,Inactive
Vehicle Speed in Cruise Control Range,Inactive
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation),Inactive
EGR Position Command (Exhaust- Gas Recirculation),10 %
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation),0.76 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve,3 %
Knock Control,Inactive
B1S1 O2 Sensor Heater (Bank 1 Sensor 1),Active
B1S1 O2 Sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 1),431 mV
B1S1 Air/Fuel Ratio (Bank 1 Sensor 1),Lean
B1S2 O2 Sensor Heater (Bank 1 Sensor 2),Active
B1S2 O2 Sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 2),255 mV
B1S2 Air/Fuel Ratio (Bank 1 Sensor 2),Lean
O2 Sensor Loop,Closed
B1 Short Term Fuel Trim (Bank 1),0 %
A/C Relay (Air Conditioning),Inactive
A/C Cutoff Mode (Air Conditioning),System OK
Malfunction Indicator (MI),Off
Service Vehicle Soon (SVS) Indicator,Off
Engine Speed,746 RPM
Desired Idle Speed,750 RPM
Idle Speed Offset,Inactive
Vehicle Acceleration,0.0 m/s2
Ignition Dwell Angle,2.1 ms
Injector Time,3.0 ms
Ignition Spark Angle,8.2 °CA
B1 Knock Sensor Signal (Bank 1),0.5 V
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 1,0 °CA
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 2,0 °CA
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 3,0 °CA
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 4,0 °CA
Relative Engine Load,8 %
Normal Engine Operating Temperature,Active
ETC Limp Home Mode (Electronic Throttle Control),Inactive
Electronic Throttle Control Learn Counter,0
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve,Inactive
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With MAF unplugged
Total number of fault codes: 3
P0100 - Mass Or Volume Air Flow Circuit Low Input
(02) - Present
P0110 - Intake Air Temperature Circuit High Input
(01) - Present
P1700 - SVS request via CAN
(00) - Present
"My Naff Code Reader" 090714 - PC based diagnostic tool
Date and time>,10/09/2009. 19:50
Workshop information:
Marks Omega
Selected model>,2002,Omega-B,Engine,Z 22 XE
Control Unit:
Keyword #1: EF
Keyword #2: 8F
Normal timing parameter set.
systemSupplierSpecific: L
VIN: W0L0VBM6931053222
vehicleManufacturerECUHardwareNumber 24426542 DG
systemSupplierECUHardwareNumber: SIE 0116004500
systemSupplierECUSoftwareNumber: 6586055136
systemSupplierECUSoftwareVersionNumber: 0701
exhaustRegulationOrTypeApprovalNumber: S01003
systemNameOrEngineType: Z22XE
RepairShopCodeOrTesterSerialNumber: Not programmed
ProgrammingDate: FFFFFFFF
Identifier: 1606
CalibrationDate: O109301C
CalibrationEquipmentSoftwareNumber: l2c9300a
ECUInstallationDate: 6586055204
VehicleManufacturerSpecific: 3200
Measuring blocks information:
Battery Voltage,13.4 V
Main Relay,Active
Fuel Pump Relay,Active
APP Sensor 1 (Accelerator Pedal Position),1.00 V
APP Sensor 2 (Accelerator Pedal Position),0.49 V
Calculated Pedal Position,0 %
TP Sensor 1 (Throttle Position),0.53 V
TP Sensor 2 (Throttle Position),4.51 V
Calculated Throttle Position,4 %
Throttle Position,Idle
Engine Speed,761 RPM
Mass Air Flow Sensor,0.00 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor,0 kg/h
Coolant Temperature,1.64 V
Coolant Temperature,86 °C
Intake Air Temperature,5.00 V
Intake Air Temperature,-40 °C
Tank Sensor,7.10 V
Park/Neutral Switch,P - N 0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning),Inactive
A/C Load Signal (Air Conditioning),Inactive
Brake Switch 1,Inactive
Brake Switch 2,Inactive
Vehicle Speed,0 km/h
Cruise Control Tip Switch,Active
Cruise Control,Inactive
Vehicle Speed in Cruise Control Range,Inactive
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation),Inactive
EGR Position Command (Exhaust- Gas Recirculation),10 %
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation),0.76 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve,9 %
Knock Control,Inactive
B1S1 O2 Sensor Heater (Bank 1 Sensor 1),Active
B1S1 O2 Sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 1),804 mV
B1S1 Air/Fuel Ratio (Bank 1 Sensor 1),Rich
B1S2 O2 Sensor Heater (Bank 1 Sensor 2),Active
B1S2 O2 Sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 2),255 mV
B1S2 Air/Fuel Ratio (Bank 1 Sensor 2),Lean
O2 Sensor Loop,Open
B1 Short Term Fuel Trim (Bank 1),0 %
A/C Relay (Air Conditioning),Inactive
A/C Cutoff Mode (Air Conditioning),System OK
Malfunction Indicator (MI),Off
Service Vehicle Soon (SVS) Indicator,ON
Engine Speed,761 RPM
Desired Idle Speed,750 RPM
Idle Speed Offset,Inactive
Vehicle Acceleration,0.0 m/s2
Ignition Dwell Angle,2.1 ms
Injector Time,3.0 ms
Ignition Spark Angle,5.7 °CA
B1 Knock Sensor Signal (Bank 1),0.5 V
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 1,0 °CA
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 2,0 °CA
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 3,0 °CA
Ignition Retard Knock Control Cyl. 4,0 °CA
Relative Engine Load,8 %
Normal Engine Operating Temperature,Active
ETC Limp Home Mode (Electronic Throttle Control),Inactive
Electronic Throttle Control Learn Counter,0
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve,Active
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OK. With the MAF connected it all looks totally normal now it's up to temperature, so back to square one. :-/
Kevin
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The exhaust is still a bit smoky, could leaking piston rings be burning oil and could that cause the HC & CO readings to be way out? I saw that cylinder 4 misfire code, or am i being paranoid....
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Hi ... can you let me know how you record your "My Naff Code Reader" details like this please :y
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Hmm missfire in cilinder 4 should be easy to detect by the sound of the engine :-/
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Ok this may sound a bit silly but how old are your spark plugs?
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Spark plugs are about 6 months old, genuine GM ones. I can always change them again if need be...
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My B1S2 O2 sensor reading doesn't seem to go as high as it should... Is it possible that it's faulty or maybe the Cat is duff, Any ideas on that??
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hmm they're not old so no need to change them.
I supose these are the readings on petrol not LPG?
I hope someone will be more helpful.
Here are the main diferences betweet our reading
B1S1 and B1S2 on my car both read as rich
Ignition spark angle is way different (mine being 41,6) although I think yours is better.
Knock control on mine is ACTIVE
Ignition Retard Knock Control on mine all read 47
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Nothing to worrying with that lot of results !........is the cambelt timing all ok (not a tooth out?).
As for the lambda signals, the absolute voltages are not overly important, its the fact they are in closed loop control and toggling between lean and rich that is key.
If the bottom end was worn you would expect the HC levels to increase and not the CO
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Marks did you mean mine or mark readings about the cambelt timing?
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Marks......where are your readings?
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Aha ok sorry I just posted a few readings during this post.
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Cambelt timing check this weekend i think.
Cambelt was changed when the HG was done, although we used the cam locking tool.
Would the timing being out cause it to run rich and how does the mechanics of that work??
I'm just trying to understand this as i am an I.T person and not generally mechanically minded.
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1222761905
for a little theory :y
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That guide is really good, thanks for that ;)
Going to check timing this weekend, it's a matter of lining up marks and notches if i remember rightly.
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Following another similar thread on high emissions, i checked my exhaust manifold and it has a hairline crack in it...
Could this be the culprit?