Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Auto Addict on 02 December 2007, 10:29:57
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Interesting article :- http://www.rospa.com/drivertraining/info/automatic.pdf
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Very interesting. Moving from a manual to my current auto, I had wondered whether I should be going into neutral and applying the handbrake at stops, instead of the lazy way of just braking to a stop and holding it using the foot brake, using the hand brake if stopped for a while. That is one thing about the autos, OK, no "driver involvement pack", but its so easy to drive, you wouldn't roll back on hills, 2 pedals, one stop, one go !, and with cruise even easier !.
Ken
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Interesting article :- http://www.rospa.com/drivertraining/info/automatic.pdf
Hmmmmm :y
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some interesting points there, a lot of my driving is as described in the info there apart from using the gears manually when negotiating a series of corners
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I tend to go to park or neutral when stationary as I don't want to dazzle the people behind.
As to twisty roads, sport mode works for me
Anyway manually selecting can bring on the gearbox errors (selector switch grotty)
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Hmmmm
Only ever shift down manually if on a steep slope. Only other thing I do very very occasionally is if I'm about to enter a corner at high speed I tap the sport button just before entering the corner to make the box change down...... but in the main i don't drive like that.... ::)
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I was surprised that it doesn't advocate slipping it into "N" and applying the handbrake at the lights. This always "feels" like a more "secure" way to wait and I do it whenever I'd slip a manual into neutral. Not blinding the buy behind or warping your brake disks when hot is a good side-effect too.
Only problem is, it takes a second or two for the gearbox to engage when you move into "D".
Kevin
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I was surprised that it doesn't advocate slipping it into "N" and applying the handbrake at the lights. This always "feels" like a more "secure" way to wait and I do it whenever I'd slip a manual into neutral. Not blinding the buy behind or warping your brake disks when hot is a good side-effect too.
Only problem is, it takes a second or two for the gearbox to engage when you move into "D".
Kevin
Had some guy toot at me a few weeks ago due to this when the lights changed, obviously i got out and gave him my views on the matter >:( >:( >:(, when i got back in the car and pulled off i made it through the lights but he did not as they changed to red again ;D ;D ;D
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I was surprised that it doesn't advocate slipping it into "N" and applying the handbrake at the lights. This always "feels" like a more "secure" way to wait and I do it whenever I'd slip a manual into neutral. Not blinding the buy behind or warping your brake disks when hot is a good side-effect too.
Only problem is, it takes a second or two for the gearbox to engage when you move into "D".
Kevin
Had some guy toot at me a few weeks ago due to this when the lights changed, obviously i got out and gave him my views on the matter >:( >:( >:(, when i got back in the car and pulled off i made it through the lights but he did not as they changed to red again ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D
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Hmm... lot's of other interesting info on RoSPA's website.... :y
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errr autos are for auto's if you want control, get a manual!
Uses less fuel, and more fun.
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errr autos are for auto's if you want control, get a manual!
Uses less fuel, and more fun.
yes, but how can you shift gears while holding a mobile phone in one hand and a sandwich in the other...? And that's before we discussed the siggies.... ;D
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errr autos are for auto's if you want control, get a manual!
Uses less fuel, and more fun.
I agreed with you when I was 22 as well ;)
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errr autos are for auto's if you want control, get a manual!
Uses less fuel, and more fun.
.. In one of these....
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/Car%20Pictures/Westfield_Avatar.jpg)
Otherwise, auto box is fine ;)
Kevin
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Manuals are great on bikes and fun cars but when you hit 40 autos get interesting.
I generally dislike autos because most are crap - the only decent autos I have driven are
Vaushall Senator
Vauxhall Carlton
Vauxhall Omega
Bad
Vauxhall Cavalier
Ford Granada
Others I can't remember
Indifferent (no sports button)
V8 Discovery
Saaaaaaaaab 95
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I was happy to see that leaving the gear in D while stopped in traffic is the right thing to do, have been doing it anyway but mainly due to laziness really.... ;D
As for going downhill in low gear this is true for both manual and auto, but the Omega autobox is supposed to have some sort of mechanism that prevents it from speeding-up when coasting downhill (it's in the user's manual).
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I was surprised that it doesn't advocate slipping it into "N" and applying the handbrake at the lights. This always "feels" like a more "secure" way to wait and I do it whenever I'd slip a manual into neutral. Not blinding the buy behind or warping your brake disks when hot is a good side-effect too.
Only problem is, it takes a second or two for the gearbox to engage when you move into "D".
Kevin
This was a point I raised with a driving examiner a couple of years ago, when I had to show my driving was upto a standard good enough for TD'ing.
Put it in N or P and handbrake applied or leave it in D with foot on brake.
Examiner replied what ever you want to do........
Im pretty sure that when i learnt to drive (in a manual) I was taught......at traffic lights, handbrake applied and 1st gear selected (clutch pressed obviously) while you wait for green.
I also asked about left foot braking.....as its suppose to be faster.......and some driving schools teach this in autos.
Again examiner replied what you feel comfortable with.
I use my right foot for braking.
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Bad
Vauxhall Cavalier
Ford Granada
Others I can't remember
You've obviously never driven a Volvo 340 / DAF 66 auto then - the ones with "elastic band drive" cvt? Otherwise, you'd have another category of bad! ;D
Test drove one for my Mum once. Pulled out of the garage forecourt, 50 yds up the road and back into the other entrance of the garage and told the bloke it was broken "No, they're supposed to be like that" :-X
Throttle controls engine revs. You can drive at 2,000 RPM or 5,000 RPM or anything in between. It has no effect on the acceleration of the vehicle whatsoever.
Kevin
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I also asked about left foot braking.....
I avoid putting my left foot anywhere near a pedal in an auto. If it just goes to sleep completely, I don't keep going for the clutch! It's not been trained to have enough finesse for braking, either. ABS or bust with the left foot, which is strange because I don't notice the same problem operating the rudders in a glider.
Kevin
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Some intersting points, cant say I agree with them all but, it is only advice and not hard and fast rules.
I certainly dont agree with the general 'no engine braking' statement as this can serve to help conserve fuel (higher revs result in fuel cut off) and gives more flexability should something 'un-expected' occur.....but this seems to be the normal teaching methods these days.
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Some intersting points, cant say I agree with them all but, it is only advice and not hard and fast rules.
I certainly dont agree with the general 'no engine braking' statement as this can serve to help conserve fuel (higher revs result in fuel cut off) and gives more flexability should something 'un-expected' occur.....but this seems to be the normal teaching methods these days.
I was told by an Advanced Driving Instructor (police) that the simple reason for using car brakes rather than engine braking is nothing to do with economy, prformance, handling etc etc .. but very simply ... if you use the car brakes you let the person behind you know you are slowing down via your brake lights .. if you just "lift off" and use engine braking they don't know and could run into the back of you ...... :(
Now you can agree or disagree at will ... but that was the info given to me ..... :)
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Some intersting points, cant say I agree with them all but, it is only advice and not hard and fast rules.
I certainly dont agree with the general 'no engine braking' statement as this can serve to help conserve fuel (higher revs result in fuel cut off) and gives more flexability should something 'un-expected' occur.....but this seems to be the normal teaching methods these days.
I was told by an Advanced Driving Instructor (police) that the simple reason for using car brakes rather than engine braking is nothing to do with economy, prformance, handling etc etc .. but very simply ... if you use the car brakes you let the person behind you know you are slowing down via your brake lights .. if you just "lift off" and use engine braking they don't know and could run into the back of you ...... :(
Now you can agree or disagree at will ... but that was the info given to me ..... :)
If they cant detect low level engine breaking then brake lights will make no difference....speed reduction under engine braking is minimal.
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Some intersting points, cant say I agree with them all but, it is only advice and not hard and fast rules.
I certainly dont agree with the general 'no engine braking' statement as this can serve to help conserve fuel (higher revs result in fuel cut off) and gives more flexability should something 'un-expected' occur.....but this seems to be the normal teaching methods these days.
I was told by an Advanced Driving Instructor (police) that the simple reason for using car brakes rather than engine braking is nothing to do with economy, prformance, handling etc etc .. but very simply ... if you use the car brakes you let the person behind you know you are slowing down via your brake lights .. if you just "lift off" and use engine braking they don't know and could run into the back of you ...... :(
Now you can agree or disagree at will ... but that was the info given to me ..... :)
If they cant detect low level engine breaking then brake lights will make no difference....speed reduction under engine braking is minimal.
Trouble is, the kids now are taught to slow down on brakes, rather than gears. Hence they expect all other drivers to. Berseck if you ask me, but ho hum...
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Some intersting points, cant say I agree with them all but, it is only advice and not hard and fast rules.
I certainly dont agree with the general 'no engine braking' statement as this can serve to help conserve fuel (higher revs result in fuel cut off) and gives more flexability should something 'un-expected' occur.....but this seems to be the normal teaching methods these days.
I was told by an Advanced Driving Instructor (police) that the simple reason for using car brakes rather than engine braking is nothing to do with economy, prformance, handling etc etc .. but very simply ... if you use the car brakes you let the person behind you know you are slowing down via your brake lights .. if you just "lift off" and use engine braking they don't know and could run into the back of you ...... :(
Now you can agree or disagree at will ... but that was the info given to me ..... :)
If they cant detect low level engine breaking then brake lights will make no difference....speed reduction under engine braking is minimal.
Trouble is, the kids now are taught to slow down on brakes, rather than gears. Hence they expect all other drivers to. Berseck if you ask me, but ho hum...
It's more of an issue when you have a 650kg car with absolutely sh!te aerodynamics and an engine with a lot of compression. Take your foot off, even in 5th, and the bloke behind will be on his brakes, if he notices. Can't even give him a flash of the brake lights because they're operated by line pressure and only come on when you're actually braking rather than just touching the pedal. ::)
I tend to just brake later and harder in that car so it's obvious, although that causes problems when the bloke behind assumes he can just sit on your tail and start braking when you do, rather than 50 yds before you do.
Kevin
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I was always told that engine braking when going downhill is aimed at preventing brake fade.
Also, in a previous life I was involved with lorries, the (very) old one had 'exhaust brake', which was basically a choke on the exhaust, the idea being that when going downhill you put the box in low gear and the keep the engine in low rev by choking the exhaust... sounds strange but it worked. Not sure if modern lorries have this though.
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I was always told that engine braking when going downhill is aimed at preventing brake fade.
Also, in a previous life I was involved with lorries, the (very) old one had 'exhaust brake', which was basically a choke on the exhaust, the idea being that when going downhill you put the box in low gear and the keep the engine in low rev by choking the exhaust... sounds strange but it worked. Not sure if modern lorries have this though.
Ours, two years old, do. It gives the drivers great fun to press the button when they are overtaking cyclists. ;D
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I was always told that engine braking when going downhill is aimed at preventing brake fade.
Also, in a previous life I was involved with lorries, the (very) old one had 'exhaust brake', which was basically a choke on the exhaust, the idea being that when going downhill you put the box in low gear and the keep the engine in low rev by choking the exhaust... sounds strange but it worked. Not sure if modern lorries have this though.
Ours, two years old, do. It gives the drivers great fun to press the button when they are overtaking cyclists. ;D
Interesting.... the lorries I was talking about were ww2 stuff... so they still have it then.
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I was always told that engine braking when going downhill is aimed at preventing brake fade.
Also, in a previous life I was involved with lorries, the (very) old one had 'exhaust brake', which was basically a choke on the exhaust, the idea being that when going downhill you put the box in low gear and the keep the engine in low rev by choking the exhaust... sounds strange but it worked. Not sure if modern lorries have this though.
Ours, two years old, do. It gives the drivers great fun to press the button when they are overtaking cyclists. ;D
Interesting.... the lorries I was talking about were ww2 stuff... so they still have it then.
Yep, 'fraid so. :y
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Manuals are great on bikes and fun cars but when you hit 40 autos get interesting.
I generally dislike autos because most are crap - the only decent autos I have driven are
Vaushall Senator
Vauxhall Carlton
Vauxhall Omega
Bad
Vauxhall Cavalier
Ford Granada
Others I can't remember
Indifferent (no sports button)
V8 Discovery
Saaaaaaaaab 95
Eeek...I'm only 34.
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I was happy to see that leaving the gear in D while stopped in traffic is the right thing to do, have been doing it anyway but mainly due to laziness really.... ;D
As for going downhill in low gear this is true for both manual and auto, but the Omega autobox is supposed to have some sort of mechanism that prevents it from speeding-up when coasting downhill (it's in the user's manual).
Mine will still speed up downhill depending on steepness of hill, but does usually drop a gear in the box if im not touching the accelerator.......i assume thats it trying engine braking.....and what the above by MJ means.
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I was surprised that it doesn't advocate slipping it into "N" and applying the handbrake at the lights. This always "feels" like a more "secure" way to wait and I do it whenever I'd slip a manual into neutral. Not blinding the buy behind or warping your brake disks when hot is a good side-effect too.
Only problem is, it takes a second or two for the gearbox to engage when you move into "D".
Kevin
This was a point I raised with a driving examiner a couple of years ago, when I had to show my driving was upto a standard good enough for TD'ing.
Put it in N or P and handbrake applied or leave it in D with foot on brake.
Examiner replied what ever you want to do........
Im pretty sure that when i learnt to drive (in a manual) I was taught......at traffic lights, handbrake applied and 1st gear selected (clutch pressed obviously) while you wait for green.
I also asked about left foot braking.....as its suppose to be faster.......and some driving schools teach this in autos.
Again examiner replied what you feel comfortable with.
I use my right foot for braking.
The tutor I was allocated for my RoSPA training, is the chief trainer for the West Midlands Fire Brigade.
His advice is if you are stationery for more than 20 seconds, leave the car 'D' and apply the hand brake, to avoid dazzling the car behind with your brake lights, and also, if you are rammed from behind, you are less likely to be shunted into the car in front.
Always leave a gap between you and the car in front, i.e. 'Can you see his rear tyres on the tarmac?'.
You are marked down if you do not observe these rules.
He told me that most of the modern fire tenders now have auto boxes, and there is less wear and tear on the auto box if you leave it in 'D'.
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I was surprised that it doesn't advocate slipping it into "N" and applying the handbrake at the lights. This always "feels" like a more "secure" way to wait and I do it whenever I'd slip a manual into neutral. Not blinding the buy behind or warping your brake disks when hot is a good side-effect too.
Only problem is, it takes a second or two for the gearbox to engage when you move into "D".
Kevin
This was a point I raised with a driving examiner a couple of years ago, when I had to show my driving was upto a standard good enough for TD'ing.
Put it in N or P and handbrake applied or leave it in D with foot on brake.
Examiner replied what ever you want to do........
Im pretty sure that when i learnt to drive (in a manual) I was taught......at traffic lights, handbrake applied and 1st gear selected (clutch pressed obviously) while you wait for green.
I also asked about left foot braking.....as its suppose to be faster.......and some driving schools teach this in autos.
Again examiner replied what you feel comfortable with.
I use my right foot for braking.
The tutor I was allocated for my RoSPA training, is the chief trainer for the West Midlands Fire Brigade.
His advice is if you are stationery for more than 20 seconds, leave the car 'D' and apply the hand brake, to avoid dazzling the car behind with your brake lights, and also, if you are rammed from behind, you are less likely to be shunted into the car in front.
Always leave a gap between you and the car in front, i.e. 'Can you see his rear tyres on the tarmac?'.
You are marked down if you do not observe these rules.
He told me that most of the modern fire tenders now have auto boxes, and there is less wear and tear on the auto box if you leave it in 'D'.
None of that D stuff works on mine, I have an extra pedal, but I do have a handbrake :y
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I was surprised that it doesn't advocate slipping it into "N" and applying the handbrake at the lights. This always "feels" like a more "secure" way to wait and I do it whenever I'd slip a manual into neutral. Not blinding the buy behind or warping your brake disks when hot is a good side-effect too.
Only problem is, it takes a second or two for the gearbox to engage when you move into "D".
Kevin
This was a point I raised with a driving examiner a couple of years ago, when I had to show my driving was upto a standard good enough for TD'ing.
Put it in N or P and handbrake applied or leave it in D with foot on brake.
Examiner replied what ever you want to do........
Im pretty sure that when i learnt to drive (in a manual) I was taught......at traffic lights, handbrake applied and 1st gear selected (clutch pressed obviously) while you wait for green.
I also asked about left foot braking.....as its suppose to be faster.......and some driving schools teach this in autos.
Again examiner replied what you feel comfortable with.
I use my right foot for braking.
The tutor I was allocated for my RoSPA training, is the chief trainer for the West Midlands Fire Brigade.
His advice is if you are stationery for more than 20 seconds, leave the car 'D' and apply the hand brake, to avoid dazzling the car behind with your brake lights, and also, if you are rammed from behind, you are less likely to be shunted into the car in front.
Always leave a gap between you and the car in front, i.e. 'Can you see his rear tyres on the tarmac?'.
You are marked down if you do not observe these rules.
He told me that most of the modern fire tenders now have auto boxes, and there is less wear and tear on the auto box if you leave it in 'D'.
None of that D stuff works on mine, I have an extra pedal, but I do have a handbrake :y
What's the extra pedal for?
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I was surprised that it doesn't advocate slipping it into "N" and applying the handbrake at the lights. This always "feels" like a more "secure" way to wait and I do it whenever I'd slip a manual into neutral. Not blinding the buy behind or warping your brake disks when hot is a good side-effect too.
Only problem is, it takes a second or two for the gearbox to engage when you move into "D".
Kevin
This was a point I raised with a driving examiner a couple of years ago, when I had to show my driving was upto a standard good enough for TD'ing.
Put it in N or P and handbrake applied or leave it in D with foot on brake.
Examiner replied what ever you want to do........
Im pretty sure that when i learnt to drive (in a manual) I was taught......at traffic lights, handbrake applied and 1st gear selected (clutch pressed obviously) while you wait for green.
I also asked about left foot braking.....as its suppose to be faster.......and some driving schools teach this in autos.
Again examiner replied what you feel comfortable with.
I use my right foot for braking.
The tutor I was allocated for my RoSPA training, is the chief trainer for the West Midlands Fire Brigade.
His advice is if you are stationery for more than 20 seconds, leave the car 'D' and apply the hand brake, to avoid dazzling the car behind with your brake lights, and also, if you are rammed from behind, you are less likely to be shunted into the car in front.
Always leave a gap between you and the car in front, i.e. 'Can you see his rear tyres on the tarmac?'.
You are marked down if you do not observe these rules.
He told me that most of the modern fire tenders now have auto boxes, and there is less wear and tear on the auto box if you leave it in 'D'.
None of that D stuff works on mine, I have an extra pedal, but I do have a handbrake :y
What's the extra pedal for?
Think its a foot rest ::)
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I was surprised that it doesn't advocate slipping it into "N" and applying the handbrake at the lights. This always "feels" like a more "secure" way to wait and I do it whenever I'd slip a manual into neutral. Not blinding the buy behind or warping your brake disks when hot is a good side-effect too.
Only problem is, it takes a second or two for the gearbox to engage when you move into "D".
Kevin
This was a point I raised with a driving examiner a couple of years ago, when I had to show my driving was upto a standard good enough for TD'ing.
Put it in N or P and handbrake applied or leave it in D with foot on brake.
Examiner replied what ever you want to do........
Im pretty sure that when i learnt to drive (in a manual) I was taught......at traffic lights, handbrake applied and 1st gear selected (clutch pressed obviously) while you wait for green.
I also asked about left foot braking.....as its suppose to be faster.......and some driving schools teach this in autos.
Again examiner replied what you feel comfortable with.
I use my right foot for braking.
The tutor I was allocated for my RoSPA training, is the chief trainer for the West Midlands Fire Brigade.
His advice is if you are stationery for more than 20 seconds, leave the car 'D' and apply the hand brake, to avoid dazzling the car behind with your brake lights, and also, if you are rammed from behind, you are less likely to be shunted into the car in front.
Always leave a gap between you and the car in front, i.e. 'Can you see his rear tyres on the tarmac?'.
You are marked down if you do not observe these rules.
He told me that most of the modern fire tenders now have auto boxes, and there is less wear and tear on the auto box if you leave it in 'D'.
None of that D stuff works on mine, I have an extra pedal, but I do have a handbrake :y
This business of being rammed into from behind (OK, OK, no pun intended...), has more to it than meets the eye. It is true that if you apply the footbrake then your foot may fly off the pedal if someone crashes into you. On the other hand, it is not always a good idea to have the brake applied, it rather depends on the circumstances.
If you are braked, you will take the full impact of the crash. It is better than being rammed into the vehicle in front of you, and it is also better than being pushed into a busy road if you are the first car at the traffic light. But... if the road in front of you clear then you will be better off if your vehicle gets pushed forward rather than having the vehicle behind you embed itself in your car.
A few years ago I was a passenger in a c-class merc, we were splashed by a passing lorry and the windscreen became muddy in an instant (the merc's single wiper isn't efficient enough!). The driver lifted his foot from the accelerator sharply, but did not brake. A fully loaded cement mixer crashed into the back of the merc - the driver was going way to fast for his load and the road conditions, and obviously had no warning because our car did not actually brake - and we were thrown forward around 50 yards or so. Apart from a whiplash we were both OK. But had we braked, the cement mixer would have climbed on top of us and i wouldn't be writing these lines...
Having said that, I am not advocating wither way just pointing out the issues. This is because even given our case, we were actually pushed into the opposite lane. This was not a problem as there was no oncoming traffic, but had there been a lorry there...
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I guess the correct terminology I should have used is elastic impact and plastic impact...