Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: JezInBrum on 04 September 2009, 11:52:43
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Morning all. My car has been using small amouns of coolant for some time now. Suspected the obvious HBV but have never seen or found traces of water anywhere under the car or when i have felt around the HBV. More recently however it has started to lose alot more. I has this initially looked at in April,and the garage diagnosed an oil cooler, as the middle of the V was full of water. I had that replaced but the car has still lost coolant. I was beginning to suspect a head issue but no coolant in oil, only the slight mayo under the oil filler cap as is common with all that do low mileage.
On monday after parking my car i noticed a trail of drips. I had a quick look about & could not see anything obvious. This mornining however i went out to check the levels. I started the car and only by chance glanced under it and saw a stream of red liquid. Ehrn i looked under the car it was dripping down quite badly from the rear of the engine on the passenger side. i looked dowm from above and it was running off the engine number plate. I felt about again, HBV is still dry as are adjoining hoses.
Now befor i have to rip the thing apart are ther eany more likely suspects. I have attached a couple of pics which may help. I have recently bought an HBV and all 3 that go on it. I have also ordered one header tank to Throttle inlet hose and the one that comes off the other side and goes under the cable tray to the rear of the engine. Are there any otghers hidden under there?
Advse gratefully sought.
Jez
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm109/jezinbrum/29062008123.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm109/jezinbrum/29062008122-1.jpg
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I'm in the same situation as you mate, got a coolant leak but no idea idea where. I've got a suspicion that it may be the coolant bridge as I replanced the hbv not long ago. hth
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Better to take the pleunum off and have a good look about, I had a burst hose between hbv and coolant bridge, with the pleunum fitted you could not see it.
(http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt347/acdcdave/DSCI0010_NEW.jpg)
(http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt347/acdcdave/DSCI0009_NEW.jpg)
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Thankfully I have all the hoses so may as well do the lot at once. LEast with the amount of coolant now coming out it should be easier to spot. Just hope the hose I need is'nt the one on 10 order from Germany.
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Morning all. My car has been using small amouns of coolant for some time now. Suspected the obvious HBV but have never seen or found traces of water anywhere under the car or when i have felt around the HBV. More recently however it has started to lose alot more. I has this initially looked at in April,and the garage diagnosed an oil cooler, as the middle of the V was full of water. I had that replaced but the car has still lost coolant. I was beginning to suspect a head issue but no coolant in oil, only the slight mayo under the oil filler cap as is common with all that do low mileage.
On monday after parking my car i noticed a trail of drips. I had a quick look about & could not see anything obvious. This mornining however i went out to check the levels. I started the car and only by chance glanced under it and saw a stream of red liquid. Ehrn i looked under the car it was dripping down quite badly from the rear of the engine on the passenger side. i looked dowm from above and it was running off the engine number plate. I felt about again, HBV is still dry as are adjoining hoses.
Now befor i have to rip the thing apart are ther eany more likely suspects. I have attached a couple of pics which may help. I have recently bought an HBV and all 3 that go on it. I have also ordered one header tank to Throttle inlet hose and the one that comes off the other side and goes under the cable tray to the rear of the engine. Are there any otghers hidden under there?
Advse gratefully sought.
Jez
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm109/jezinbrum/29062008123.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm109/jezinbrum/29062008122-1.jpg
I'd be more worried about the missing gearbox and cats :o :o :o ;)
Seriously though I'd whip the plenum and inlet manifolding off and check the coolant bridge and oil cooler cover for leaks.
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In the V there is the thermostat, oil cooler cover plate and coolant bridge and just below the coolant bridge (silver pipe in the pics) coolant transfer pipe all of which could be leaking. I would make one of the caps in the link to test the system ;)
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1225142864
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I bought a spare cap & got a valve so shall try that. Should not take much pressure judging by the leak lol.
Will update Sunday once I have stripped it
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Well, have stripped the wipers, plenum, inlet & even gone mad by removing teh DIS pack. No obvious signs as of yet. The DIS pack has no signs of water going over it as well. One thing to be thankful for.
Waiting for the glue to of off on the improvised cap before pressure testing. I am praying it is not the coolant transfer pipe. :'(
Is one of the bolts for that known as the B**tard bolt?
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Hi, have managed to pressure test the system.
No obvious signs of a leak. Even put it upto just over 16 psi. Put a vac through the HBV to open it but that made no difference.
I only stripped off the inlet manifold. Is it worth taking off the plate it sits on as well?
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Are your carpets wet?
what coulor smoke comes from the exhaust?
have you had a look at the front of the engine ie waterpump and cooler?
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There has always been a little dampness at teh front. But the cambelt was changed in april & they said the pump was fine. No water leaks from under the front. The only signs were last week when i saw it running over the engine number plate.
Also no moisture in car. There is a smell of antifreeze whenever i park the car, stinks badly sometimes
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Is your heater matrix ok?
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As far as i know. Never had any issues with condensation in the car, unless the recirculation is on without the aircon. Does slowly mist up bu clears quickly. I have got new hoses to put on. Had another feel about & all is dry. So maybe it could be hest distorting something rather than pressure alone.
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Last follow up on this subject. Took car into garage this morning for them to have a look at. From under the car they can see clear staining caused by antifreeze between the heads & the block. There has also been a slight oily crud forming on the expansion tank cap vents. Was quotes £850 fo rthe job but have thrown way too much money at this already & basically enough is enough. On the hunt for a new car now. :(
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Last follow up on this subject. Took car into garage this morning for them to have a look at. From under the car they can see clear staining caused by antifreeze between the heads & the block. There has also been a slight oily crud forming on the expansion tank cap vents. Was quotes £850 fo rthe job but have thrown way too much money at this already & basically enough is enough. On the hunt for a new car now. :(
Dude, sounds like its the thermostat housing. I have the exact same problem and the symptoms are exactly as you describe. I changed the cooler plate not so long ago so I know its not that, I am looking at tackling it this weekend. I dont know if you can make it here from Brum but we can park them both on my drive and work on them together :y
I'd hate for you to get rid of a perfectly good car for the sake of a small and easily fixed job :y
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In amongst my last efforts to find the leak, i had everything off down to the oil cooler & there were no signs of water on top of the engine. To be honest as well, I have lost count of the amount of times i have had to have the plenum off for unrelated things & my patience has gone with it. It can sit on the drive for now. As i have noticed they are worth more in bits than as a whole.
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Feel sorry for you with the amount of time you have spent on your water leak faulting.
I have had a similar water leak on and off for many years and can't find it. I just live with it. Must have bought gallons (litres?) of antifreeze over the years. Mine comes and goes and doesn't seem linked to any one thing as some journeys it loses nowt but do the same journey the next day....
Core plug?
Varche
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Hi Varche, the core plug idea did cross my mind but I am not entirely sure if the heads will have to come off anyway to properly test for leaks. The fact water is evident to the rear of both heads also steers me away from thi stheory as does the slight misfire when starting. I have in the past week and a half put 6 litres of coolant in it. Most of the time there is no signs after driving but on other occasions when you go to park, from the point i start to reverse into a space ther is a trail of the stuff. And when i get out al i can smell is antifreeze. Stinks like a mobile curry shop lol.
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I had this problem some time ago, I spent ages and a fortune in antifreeze trying to find the problem. We made a prersure cap and removed the coil pack and bracket and found that it was an external head gasket leak that was gradually getting worse so carried on stripping it down.
Rebuilt and touch wood no more leaks from back of engine
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if there are no signs of coolent(residue of similar colour to whats in the bottle) in the v when stripped down to the oil cooler cover plate/coolent bridge/ and stat housing, then does sound like something at the back behind the heads, core plug(hope not, note its a 98) external head gaskit leak(hope not) a rubber pipe split, or the metal transfer pipe at the back of the block, above the bell housing, where the oil cooler chamber exits and comes round the drivers side.
If its affected by heater settings then would highly suspect the hbv. But it sounds like your well past that point. May be worth playing with the heater/ac when doing your pressure test, if you can bare it.
At the rate you loosing water, its too far gone for the last resort, a stop leak additive.(only one bottle they say)
Sorry to hear your having agro.
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Many years ago a mate was having problems tracing a leak on a Zodiac ... so he put bright yellow food colouring in the system, and a lot of it !!
It certainly worked as within a few hours it was easy to see the trail of yellow water !!
Just a thought as you seem to be running out of "normal" ideas ... might be worth a stab ???
:)
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Cheers for the follow up chaps. I have been looking for another motor in the mean time but not quite at the amount where i can get anything with enough history to make it a safish buy (£1k tops). So the garage is giving the whoe car a going over to see what else is showing signs of wear. In other words if its likely to fly through the mot & give me another couple of years troubleish free motoring i will get it repaired. All that will need doing then is getting some decent doors on it and treating the rear arches as they have just started to bubble up.
My mood has ligtened a bit since the original diagnosis. Am just waiting on the call to hear the verdict.
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I have been following this thread http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1254850661 concerning a faulty HBV where the water leaks into the vacuum pipe.
Is it possible that your coolant could be disappearing by that route? The coolant would be sucked into the inlet manifold & cause steam from the exhaust.
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Cheers for the follow up chaps. I have been looking for another motor in the mean time but not quite at the amount where i can get anything with enough history to make it a safish buy (£1k tops). So the garage is giving the whoe car a going over to see what else is showing signs of wear. In other words if its likely to fly through the mot & give me another couple of years troubleish free motoring i will get it repaired. All that will need doing then is getting some decent doors on it and treating the rear arches as they have just started to bubble up.
My mood has ligtened a bit since the original diagnosis. Am just waiting on the call to hear the verdict.
My offer still stands to come down and let me have a look. I can have the plenum and intake off in minutes, if it is the thermostat the seals cost a total of £2.36. I will be doing this job on my own miggy this weekend. Drop me a PM if you're interested :y
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Hello, here is the final post on this saga. Well it had best be. :P
Both eads were removed for testing. They both had signs of corrosion, the left bank worse than the other. Both had the bad dug out & were welded up.
All put back together & to top it all a cam cover was unserviceable adding another £80 to the bill.
The sum of £970.80 shelled out. This did include £20 of petrol.
This may by some have seemed an uneconomical repair but having spent over £700 on an oil cooler & cam belt replacement in april, and the cost of a worthwhile replacement being over £1100 the decision to repair was ano brainer. Afer all what lese is there to go wrong with it :-? lol
Cars, dont you just love them!
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Hello, here is the final post on this saga. Well it had best be. :P
Both eads were removed for testing. They both had signs of corrosion, the left bank worse than the other. Both had the bad dug out & were welded up.
All put back together & to top it all a cam cover was unserviceable adding another £80 to the bill.
The sum of £970.80 shelled out. This did include £20 of petrol.
This may by some have seemed an uneconomical repair but having spent over £700 on an oil cooler & cam belt replacement in april, and the cost of a worthwhile replacement being over £1100 the decision to repair was ano brainer. Afer all what lese is there to go wrong with it :-? lol
Cars, dont you just love them!
:o
Hope its sorted for you now :y