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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 08:57:59

Title: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 08:57:59
Started the 2.2 this morning to a very nasty noise, sounded a bit like failing SAI pump, but it continued to stay the same. I thought it might be the alternator, as the sound was not constant, it sounded like a stone or something might be in it, as there was sometimes a scraping/rotating sound, but then it would go into a loud squeel, then silence. Then back to squeel again.

Turned around and drove back to steal borrow mother tunnies Elite.

This was 6am in the morning but decided to have a quick gander, stopped and started the engine, noise was there. (top left hand side as you look at the engine, very close to the alternator)

I quickly popped off the Aux belt, and started it again, the noise remained  >:(

So its either the cambelt rubbing? But the sound is metalic  :-?

So only thing i can think of is a failing tensioner?  :-/

EDIT - Was full GM cambelt kit & is 27k / 2.5 years old.
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: ENFIELD_MV6 on 30 October 2009, 09:01:45
that dont sound to good tunnie, be carefull running it if it is the tensiosner failing just in case it lets go matey :y
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 09:06:38
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that dont sound to good tunnie, be carefull running it if it is the tensiosner failing just in case it lets go matey :y

Thats why i turned around, i thought i was alternator when i stopped at the side of the road, i turned back anyway cause if that let go it would take the aux belt and leave me without power!

Damn glad i did turn around now as it looks cambelt related  >:(
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: ENFIELD_MV6 on 30 October 2009, 09:11:57
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that dont sound to good tunnie, be carefull running it if it is the tensiosner failing just in case it lets go matey :y

Thats why i turned around, i thought i was alternator when i stopped at the side of the road, i turned back anyway cause if that let go it would take the aux belt and leave me without power!

Damn glad i did turn around now as it looks cambelt related  >:(

sounds strange that it may be failing seeing as it was done not that long ago really, unless it is a defetive part ??? but if it was surely it would have showed signs before now, i am curious now what it could be, bit worried as the cambelt on mine was changed 2 years ago and the car has only covered 2.5k since fitting(done before i bought the car)
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: mark.adams on 30 October 2009, 09:18:11
I suppose you could spray oil into the tensioner to eliminate it from the equation, especially if you're going to replace it anyway but thats a bit rough if it has only lasted 2.5 yrs...
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 30 October 2009, 09:44:09
Could also be water pump or aux belt tensioner.
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 09:49:22
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Could also be water pump or aux belt tensioner.

Waterpump is very low down on the 4 pots, noise was quite high up? But i'll check it  :y
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: TheBoy on 30 October 2009, 09:53:31
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Could also be water pump or aux belt tensioner.
noise still there with aux belt off, so would imply cambelt related?
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: TheBoy on 30 October 2009, 09:54:26
was pump changed with cambelt?
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 09:57:21
Noise still there with auxbelt off, the tensioner has no power, so that should not spin with engine on?

Yes water pump replaced, i noticed orginal had metal blades, new one had plastic  >:(
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: TheBoy on 30 October 2009, 10:02:55
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Noise still there with auxbelt off, the tensioner has no power, so that should not spin with engine on?

Yes water pump replaced, i noticed orginal had metal blades, new one had plastic  >:(
I guess pop the belt off, and visually examine tensioner  :-/
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 10:27:09
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Noise still there with auxbelt off, the tensioner has no power, so that should not spin with engine on?

Yes water pump replaced, i noticed orginal had metal blades, new one had plastic  >:(
I guess pop the belt off, and visually examine tensioner  :-/

Guess so  :-/

You about tommorow?
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 30 October 2009, 10:41:52
When did we do this belt - Feb 07 wasn't it?

Tunnie, whatever you do, don't start the engine until it's been checked...

As you saw, it was all fitted / torqued correctly (else it wouldn't have done 27k!) so maybe a faulty component?

Happy to look FOC if it helps mate.
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 30 October 2009, 10:44:34
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When did we do this belt - Feb 07 wasn't it?

Yep. My first cam belt party. That's when you two got intimate on TheBoy's kitchen floor. Thought it'd be more memorable? :-X

 ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 30 October 2009, 10:49:12
If the kit's only got 13k left, and you're taking it off - may as well just replace it?  :-/
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 10:50:33
Not quite as memorable for James  ::)  ;D

Yes Feb '07, had trouble remembing myself. I was more than happy with your work James, it transformed the sound and feel of the engine, that old belt could have been used as a bungee.

Only thing i can think is that the tensioner is giving up, sadly with this noise it has done around 20 miles.  :'(

On the upside it pulled fine, revved fine, no loss of power, but i think its on its last legs.

I'll take cambelt cover off tommorow, but i am not sure what i am looking for  :-/
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Elite Pete on 30 October 2009, 10:51:12
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When did we do this belt - Feb 07 wasn't it?

Yep. My first cam belt party. That's when you two got intimate on TheBoy's kitchen floor. Thought it'd be more memorable? :-X

 ;)

Kevin
Ah that brings back nightmares memories i've not been able to sleep properly since ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: TheBoy on 30 October 2009, 10:51:17
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Noise still there with auxbelt off, the tensioner has no power, so that should not spin with engine on?

Yes water pump replaced, i noticed orginal had metal blades, new one had plastic  >:(
I guess pop the belt off, and visually examine tensioner  :-/

Guess so  :-/

You about tommorow?
In morning I should be. She has a Costco/Hobbycraft/Argos/Asda trip planned for me in the afternoon  :'(
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 30 October 2009, 10:52:52
Cool - it rings of a faulty component, to me...

If you wanna get a new kit / pump, tunnie, I'll come and pop it on for you.  :y



Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 11:35:00
Cheers James, tempted to have a bash myself i really should learn.

Should Add that the sound is not rev related, this morning, giving it a few revs actually made the sound disappear  :-/
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: TheBoy on 30 October 2009, 11:37:44
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Cheers James, tempted to have a bash myself i really should learn.

Should Add that the sound is not rev related, this morning, giving it a few revs actually made the sound disappear  :-/
get camcover off tonight, and investigate.  I seem to recall a noise on yours before due to rubbing (or was it your dads?)
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 11:50:00
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Cheers James, tempted to have a bash myself i really should learn.

Should Add that the sound is not rev related, this morning, giving it a few revs actually made the sound disappear  :-/
get camcover off tonight, and investigate.  I seem to recall a noise on yours before due to rubbing (or was it your dads?)

Father tunnies, rear plate to the cam, i think was not bolted to the back plate i think!
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: TheBoy on 30 October 2009, 12:01:07
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Cheers James, tempted to have a bash myself i really should learn.

Should Add that the sound is not rev related, this morning, giving it a few revs actually made the sound disappear  :-/
get camcover off tonight, and investigate.  I seem to recall a noise on yours before due to rubbing (or was it your dads?)

Father tunnies, rear plate to the cam, i think was not bolted to the back plate i think!
Yeah, sounds familiar now.

Check yours for similar...
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 30 October 2009, 12:39:36
Yes,

When we did father tunnie's, I someone forgot to put a bolt back in the backplate  ::)

Get the cover off mate, let us know what you see  :y
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 13:50:13
will do  :y  :)
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Radar on 30 October 2009, 21:59:06
I had a similar noise from same area on mine and put in some bars stop leak (which apparently lubricates the water pump for 2 quid) and a thousand miles on no more noise. You could try this.
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Jimbob on 30 October 2009, 22:01:44
 Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
.
.
.
.
.
not as bad as 39,995 miles too early  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 22:12:00
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Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
.
.
.
.
.
not as bad as 39,995 miles too early  :'( :'( :'(

Sorry Jimbob am i missing something? You had an early failure?  :-/
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 22:12:15
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I had a similar noise from same area on mine and put in some bars stop leak (which apparently lubricates the water pump for 2 quid) and a thousand miles on no more noise. You could try this.

Noise is too high up to be water pump
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Jimbob on 30 October 2009, 22:16:56
Quote
Quote
Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
.
.
.
.
.
not as bad as 39,995 miles too early  :'( :'( :'(

Sorry Jimbob am i missing something? You had an early failure?  :-/


Yup, Mark did my head gaskets....new cambelt kit.....

it didnt survive the test drive.

let go at low speed turning into Mark's road.


bye bye new heads  :'(
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 22:18:26
Quote
Quote
Quote
Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
.
.
.
.
.
not as bad as 39,995 miles too early  :'( :'( :'(

Sorry Jimbob am i missing something? You had an early failure?  :-/


Yup, Mark did my head gaskets....new cambelt kit.....

it didnt survive the test drive.

let go at low speed turning into Mark's road.


bye bye new heads  :'(

Fek  :o :o :o Sorry to hear that  :'(
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Jimbob on 30 October 2009, 22:19:56
Cheers, all sorted now.

Mark rebuilt another set of heads, and redid all the work

(Star bloke  :y)
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 30 October 2009, 22:20:50
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Cheers, all sorted now.

Mark rebuilt another set of heads, and redid all the work

(Star bloke  :y)

He is indeed a top bloke  :y
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Ken T on 30 October 2009, 23:13:58
If thats a tensioner letting go at 27K, something is seriously wrong with manufacturing quality control. How many others have 2.2's that have done that sort of miles since a change ?. Me for one. :'(

Ken
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 31 October 2009, 10:14:42
Pictures as promised, i can't see anything majorly wrong or loose.

I span the alternator by hand, was smooth and silent, tiny bit of noise in the aux belt tensioner nothing big. Cambelt tension looks fine, small movement between the cams, but tension is good. small amounts of crap on the cambelt cover, no serious gashes or anything in it.

Really at a loss at what could be causing this noise, hopefully J will be along in the afternoon, need a pair of eyes/ears to took at the cam area for a second or two once it starts.

(https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/DSC00260.JPG)

(https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/DSC00261.JPG)

(https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/DSC00262.JPG)

(https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/DSC00263.JPG)
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 31 October 2009, 10:41:32
only thing that comes to mind is a failing valve  :'(
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 31 October 2009, 14:14:32
Unless you take the belt off and spin each tensioner you won't necessarily know if it's on its' way out.

Kevin
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Omega3 on 31 October 2009, 14:40:26
Quote
Quote
Quote
Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
.
.
.
.
.
not as bad as 39,995 miles too early  :'( :'( :'(

Sorry Jimbob am i missing something? You had an early failure?  :-/


Yup, Mark did my head gaskets....new cambelt kit.....

it didnt survive the test drive.

let go at low speed turning into Mark's road.


bye bye new heads  :'(
Whoa! Now I feel lucky mine made it to 51k on the original belt.. :o I'll never "forget" again!
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 31 October 2009, 16:57:41
just gone over the it again with Jaime, he reckons it could be the tensioner too, but its hard to tell. It could be tensioner, water pump or the pulley.

It was all due to be changed in early March anyway, so just brought it forward thats all. I'll order the bits and put the belt on next weekend.

Just have to steal borrow the 3.0 Elite for a week  ::)
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: TheBoy on 31 October 2009, 20:08:20
Unfortunately, Tunnie has put his camlocking wedge somewhere safe. Very safe. Very, very safe.

So we were unable to remove the belt.

The noise seems to be coming from the area of the tensioner, waterpump, or the idler just above.  A listening stick wasn't conclusive, none of those 3 sounded 'right' to my ears.  The other idler sounded what I would expect.

Ideally, I'd like to whip off the belt, and find whats wrong before spending money, but as all of those need to be changed together anyway, makes sense to do that now and see whats what from there...
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 31 October 2009, 20:14:09
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Unfortunately, Tunnie has put his camlocking wedge somewhere safe. Very safe. Very, very safe.

So we were unable to remove the belt.

The noise seems to be coming from the area of the tensioner, waterpump, or the idler just above.  A listening stick wasn't conclusive, none of those 3 sounded 'right' to my ears.  The other idler sounded what I would expect.

Ideally, I'd like to whip off the belt, and find whats wrong before spending money, but as all of those need to be changed together anyway, makes sense to do that now and see whats what from there...

I blame James!
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: TheBoy on 31 October 2009, 20:16:20
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Quote
Unfortunately, Tunnie has put his camlocking wedge somewhere safe. Very safe. Very, very safe.

So we were unable to remove the belt.

The noise seems to be coming from the area of the tensioner, waterpump, or the idler just above.  A listening stick wasn't conclusive, none of those 3 sounded 'right' to my ears.  The other idler sounded what I would expect.

Ideally, I'd like to whip off the belt, and find whats wrong before spending money, but as all of those need to be changed together anyway, makes sense to do that now and see whats what from there...

I blame James!
LOL, wouldn't put it past him ;D.  Think he may still have my compression tester ;D

S'pose we'll have to invite him over for a curry night, and relieve him of them - on the assumption you two don't start cuddling and kissing again...
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Andy B on 31 October 2009, 20:18:23
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Quote
Unfortunately, Tunnie has put his camlocking wedge somewhere safe. Very safe. Very, very safe.

So we were unable to remove the belt.

The noise seems to be coming from the area of the tensioner, waterpump, or the idler just above.  A listening stick wasn't conclusive, none of those 3 sounded 'right' to my ears.  The other idler sounded what I would expect.

Ideally, I'd like to whip off the belt, and find whats wrong before spending money, but as all of those need to be changed together anyway, makes sense to do that now and see whats what from there...

I blame James!

Buy another! They're only a few quid aren't they?
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 31 October 2009, 20:19:49
Quote
Quote
Quote
Unfortunately, Tunnie has put his camlocking wedge somewhere safe. Very safe. Very, very safe.

So we were unable to remove the belt.

The noise seems to be coming from the area of the tensioner, waterpump, or the idler just above.  A listening stick wasn't conclusive, none of those 3 sounded 'right' to my ears.  The other idler sounded what I would expect.

Ideally, I'd like to whip off the belt, and find whats wrong before spending money, but as all of those need to be changed together anyway, makes sense to do that now and see whats what from there...

I blame James!
LOL, wouldn't put it past him ;D.  Think he may still have my compression tester ;D

S'pose we'll have to invite him over for a curry night, and relieve him of them - on the assumption you two don't start cuddling and kissing again...

I think you drugged us to make a did  :-/  ;D

Curry night sounds good, mother & father tunnie are away next next weekend, so i will be looking for a take away  :)

James has a new project too, could bring that?
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 31 October 2009, 20:20:37
Quote
Quote
Quote
Unfortunately, Tunnie has put his camlocking wedge somewhere safe. Very safe. Very, very safe.

So we were unable to remove the belt.

The noise seems to be coming from the area of the tensioner, waterpump, or the idler just above.  A listening stick wasn't conclusive, none of those 3 sounded 'right' to my ears.  The other idler sounded what I would expect.

Ideally, I'd like to whip off the belt, and find whats wrong before spending money, but as all of those need to be changed together anyway, makes sense to do that now and see whats what from there...

I blame James!

Buy another! They're only a few quid aren't they?

Already have off eGay, trouble was we wanted one now then then to whip the belt of to test the tensioners.
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Andy B on 31 October 2009, 20:42:18
Quote
....
Already have off eGay, trouble was we wanted one now then then to whip the belt of to test the tensioners.

No local motor factors then in the morning?  ;)
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 31 October 2009, 20:44:34
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Quote
....
Already have off eGay, trouble was we wanted one now then then to whip the belt of to test the tensioners.

No local motor factors then in the morning?  ;)

Local one did not have any (they are useless anyway)

We live in country here, no bugger is open on a Sunday. (apart from Tesco)

Needs belt kit anyway....
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 31 October 2009, 20:56:03
Stick the crank 90 degrees before TDC and take the belt off and then check it for whats causing the noise.
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 31 October 2009, 21:01:07
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Stick the crank 90 degrees before TDC and take the belt off and then check it for whats causing the noise.

It won't damage the valves releasing it without a lock?
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 31 October 2009, 21:07:57
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Stick the crank 90 degrees before TDC and take the belt off and then check it for whats causing the noise.

It won't damage the valves releasing it without a lock?

No, at 90 deg before TDC (or after), all 4 pistons are half way up/down the bores and hence well clear of the valves even if fully open.
Title: Re: Cambelt Tensioner Failure 10k early?
Post by: tunnie on 31 October 2009, 21:09:42
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Quote
Quote
Stick the crank 90 degrees before TDC and take the belt off and then check it for whats causing the noise.

It won't damage the valves releasing it without a lock?

No, at 90 deg before TDC (or after), all 4 pistons are half way up/down the bores and hence well clear of the valves even if fully open.

Good to know  :)