Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: amba on 11 November 2009, 15:04:42
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Well guys ..put your heads together please.
I replaced my Dispack this morning and all went back together with a bit of bad language ,but all sorted .Started up car and still missing and running very rough..this did smooth out when warmed up but still not great.
Have noticed that on idle engine seems almost to mis a beat every so often and as said fairly lumpy and rough.When accelerater pushed it seems to jump a little and then sounds like a proper V6 should and revs fine.
Could this be a plug as now would prefer to go the cheaper options first,as car has 8mm magnacor leads which were fitted new just on a year ago ,and would imagine that if that was problem it would not clear when reves increased.
Any advise much appreciated as now nursing numereous cuts and scuffs from my mission with the dispack which seems to have been a waste of time ,although I do now know its history.
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plugs back on in the right order?
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Yes Tunnie...checked and treble checked..all as should be and checked again.!!
As said it revs great when you go beyond 1500rpm or so ,no missing just at idle and low revs.....symptoms as before dispack replacement
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check for any air leaks, ICV ok?
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So DIS pack is connected thus:
5-3-1
0 0 0
0 0 0
2-6-4
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Yes..have removed IDV and given it a good clean.(it was really not bad anyway)..have gone over entire engine top with carb cleaner and quick spraying and no change in engine tone.
Have just done another flash code and am getting 73 which I expected as MAF was removed and replaced whilst engine running to see if that showed up any change.
I have now got 74 as a new code...and 89 which I had right at the start of this problem so could that be pointing towards Lambda sensors but would that make engine run rough at low revs ?
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Yes Mark....I carefully checked each lead as replaced..they had yellow collars on them and with hbv out the way it was easy to see offside bank.
Nearside again very caerfully checked so am totally sure they are in correct place.
As previously said engine runs sweet once revs are up just at low ,and would have expected 2 leads to be incorrectly palced to cause Very rough running all the time.
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how about a simple answer ............... plugs or a dodgy lead ?? :y
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try blanking the egr off. had the same prob with an elite i had. this cured it.
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Trouble with these cars is you go round in circles chasing what you think is the fault.
On advise I agreed and replaced the dispack with a brand new genuine Bosch unit as it had had a similar fault last year and at that time I only did the cheap fix and put on a breaker part which did seem to cure the problem.
Major misfire last Sunday on way to work so limped home with car sounding quite sick.On advise went down dispack route and am now sitting here trying to convince myself that iI did put them leads back the way they came off with correct positions observed.
I was now also sitting here felling well pis...ed off aftre my days efforts let alone the cost, thinking should I be going down the route of plugs/and/or leads but again is that just another take it off and try route for me.Plugs were replaced about 1 year gao (30k) along with magnacor 8mm blue leads,so would like to think that they have atleast stayed the test of time.
Car at present is undrivable and will hardly pull away although I did take it around the block and it did pick up very well when I gave it some serious revs as was causing a traffic jam as limping along at normal revs.
When idling on driveway engine keeps backfiring and am sure it sounds like air is leaking in but cannot find any trace with the can of carb cleaner.
So now I sit here with a stiff drink and ponder how I am going to do a days work and 150 miles in my daughters KA..which I haven,t told her I will be borrowing in the morning.
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amba06128,
I'm no expert, but I wouldn't rule out the MAF sensor. I've not had the issue on the Omega, but I had the fault on a Carlton I had and at high revs and loads it seemed OK, but at low revs and loads it ran really rough and I think it was overfueling due to the wrong air flow signal. I know the devices are completely different on the 2 cars, but the error could give the same symptoms.
Maybe someone could advise if there is a way to reset the ECU fault codes so you could then run the engine and recheck the codes to see if the MAF sensor really has a problem or if it was just showing a fault beacuse you disconnected it.
It's making me wonder whether my mis-fire is the DIS pack which I had just convinced myself it was.
Steve
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Thanks for opinion SteveS.
When I initially had the problems last Sunday ,coming home the car did bring up a fault code of 89 which is low voltage at oxygen sensor which I assume must be the lambard sensors,pressumably as a result of unburnt fuel being sent down the exhaust.
Tha MAF codes only appeared when I started the car after the dispack replacemnet today,and like you wondered if the engine would run any different with it disconnected(which it did slightly....so think that rules out MAF problem)hence the reason for the codes for the airmeter being logged.
Whilst it really does sound like an air leak I cannot pin-point it as I have been quite severe spraying the carb cleaner around,although I did avoid the EGR as it was very hot and didn,t want a bbq.
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Well guys ..put your heads together please.
I replaced my Dispack this morning and all went back together with a bit of bad language ,but all sorted .Started up car and still missing and running very rough..this did smooth out when warmed up but still not great.
Have noticed that on idle engine seems almost to mis a beat every so often and as said fairly lumpy and rough.When accelerater pushed it seems to jump a little and then sounds like a proper V6 should and revs fine.Could this be a plug as now would prefer to go the cheaper options first,as car has 8mm magnacor leads which were fitted new just on a year ago ,and would imagine that if that was problem it would not clear when reves increased.
Any advise much appreciated as now nursing numereous cuts and scuffs from my mission with the dispack which seems to have been a waste of time ,although I do now know its history.
Just fixed a similar problem this afternoon. I suspected a missfire on no. 6 pot due to a lead breaking down, so hoping for an easy fix changed the lead and "bingo" :) back on all six. The lead on no. 6 can be a bit of a stretch to fit over the spark plug and can get damaged. Give it a try and hope for the best :y
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Well after speaking to MarkDTM and Daz this evening on the emergency hotline ,the concenus of opinion from the guru,s is to replace the plugs as they have now done closer to 40k than I first thought when I checked the paperwork.
I will pay a trip to the stealers in the morning and buy 6 no..9195109 twin electrode GM plugs and have a go at fitting them later in the day.
If that fails advise now is to look for air-leaks as magnacor 8mm leads would not seem to be at fault so will report back after plug replacement with results.
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Good news,as car is now restored to its former performance.
Bought 6 new GM plugs this morning from stealers(who told me that Trade Club had now stopped...so called out branch manager and got issue resolved and 6 plugs for £14=00)
Decided to remove passenger side first as by far the worst to work on ,and was greated with all 3 plugs sitting in about an inch of a creamy coloured water and their bodies looking pretty grim.Relpaced that side and then moved onto drivers side where all plugs were dry and clean.
Not the easiest job on a V6 but kept bothe sets of fingers and toes crossed that car would spring into life...and yes she didn,t fail me..sprang into life with a single flick of the key.
Have just come back from a 10 mile motorway and slow road test and car hasn,t missed a beat,so unsure if dispack was at fault aswell or just the plugs...anyway all fixed and normal service resumed.
Anybody else had passenger side plug wells filling with water ? and found the cause .
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glad its sorted amba. Any signs of carbon scoring on the insulator?(white bit) usually a give away.
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Thanks Chris....the passenger side plugs looked like they were starting to rust !!! as were almost under water...when I pulled the rubber plug cap off the plug it had a gluey creamy mess on the end ,which I managed to get most out of the plug well with the aid of kitchen tissue and a wooden kebab stick( now part of the genuine Omega toolkit).
They looked really degraded when removed although the electrode tips were only really black,which I imagine was from the unburnt fuel,hence the reason the fault code pulled up oxygen sensor.
The thing that really puzzles me is why the plug wells were filled with water....I have owned this car for over 4 years,but have previously had a mechanic do the repairs ,but with current economics am going the DIY route,which I quite enjoy and the feeling of sucess is well worth the cuts and bruises.
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Have you perhaps got a drip from the join in the scuttle cover into the plug well?
Kevin
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Good point,Kevin.I will tape over the joint with some Duck tape...strange its never had that problem before and scuttle has been on/off numerous times in the last few years.
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rust is the other clue. ;D
There have been a couple of threads re leaking scuttle. From memory, even bathroom or silicon sealent didnt stop the water coming through.
My old 2.5 leaked, i noticed the drips when working on the car in the rain. Never got on top of the plenum or engine though. But rust means water, and scuttle most likely, unless you drive through a ford or flood of some sort?
Also see if the windscreen seal is still attached to the screen. If the scuttle is attached to the seal it can still leak if seal is adrift of the screen. But thinking about it you may well have noticed that when replacing the dis pac. Hth a bit.
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Good news glad you sorted it. :y
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Chris...I had a chat with Daz this afternoon and he suggested the scuttle panel could be leaking,and advised sealant around the washers where the wiper shafts pass through the plastic part.
I think I will get a couple of large rubber flat washers and cut and then apply cam cover sealant around them and fit to scuttle that way the only place water that runs off the screen can go is to the scuttle ends and drain away down the end holes.
The miss fire started last Sunday morning and seem to recall car stood all afternoon on Saturday in heavy rain,but only on the drive where it is usually parked.
Maybe it was just one of those things and plugs had been soaked before as indicated by the rust and the last soaking had been the final straw.Anyway it has been resolved and car has a nice new dispack and 6 brand new plugs so better look on the positive side,and will have a closer look at sealing things up next week .
I hope you all have a good meeting on Saturday...I would have liked to attend,but work has been scrappy as of late and needs must as they say,so it is work all weekend for me.
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The lesson is always check the simple things first. However I did the same thing when I first bought my Omega, replaced DIS pack, then leads and only when I went to replace the plugs that I found they were sitting in alot of oil and this I believe was causing the misfire I was suffering, once bitten twice shy :)
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Alldi...strange thing was it was the water that must have been causing the misfire,but would have expected the heat from a running engine to have caused the water to evaporate.As said nearside side was like a swimming pool...only a very small trace of oil on center and closest to front on drivers side which I can,t see was the problem.
Anyway good news was car drove nearly 200 miles today without missing a beat in storm conditions ,so looks like all sorted out.
Sure I think there is a slight air leak so will go searching for that when weather improves.
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I bet your car is parked downhill on your drive.
I've had this occasionally when the car has been stood for a week or two in rainy weather and No6 fills with water.
Solution is to mention it to my Gnome who runs out with tools and the airline to strip down to the plugs and blow out the water from the plugwells.
I've only heard of it happening on facelifts before though.
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Car is always parked down hill on driveway as its easier to get off in the morning,but I have been doing that now for lots of years with no previous problems.
Can only think rain was very heavy last Saturday night and maybe the scuttle had not been put back quite correctly the last time it was taken off....but on further thoughts all 3 plug holes were underwater not just the nasty no 6,so water would flow uphill to that one unless camcover was nearly all under water and the only place left to go was down the plug holes(so as to put it).But that following day I drove 80+miles with a very rough running car so would have expected the water to evaporate with the engine heat.
Trouble is I can go mad trying to work out why the water was there...just hope it doesnt happen again...I have ordered a couple of 60mm syringes and will make up a tube on the end in case I need to perform dyna-rod again.
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I've had my Omega just over three weeks with a missfire and have found fresh water in the plug holes, I eventually discovered the sound proofing sponge under the scuttle was full of water, squeezing it showed up several holes in the sponge covering where the water would have dripped out, one hole was right above the dispack, after removing the sponge to dry out the missfire went away. I also park facing downwards.