Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Exec on 17 November 2009, 23:46:56
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Hi everyone,
i'm considering placing a supercharger in my miggy, has anyone already done it here?
I've been searching the forum, but I didn't found any supercharged V6 miggy here.
Perhaps some of you already tried to make a supercharged V6 here?
I'm gonna make some soft supercharging, (about 5 PSI) to avoid expensive modifications of engine. I will probably use eaton m62.
If anyone has some experience with superchargers please contact me :)
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Havent seen one myself, but I wanted to go supercharger way too. If you happen to do it, leave me a PM plz :y
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have a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViGhqPlbTw0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgnp3-BPUj0&feature=related
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have a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViGhqPlbTw0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgnp3-BPUj0&feature=related
yeah, i've seen all those videos, the thing that worries me is all the videos show test, test rides, there are no viedos showing that these cars live with their supercharges, i mean there are no complications after long usage, long distances etc. I would like to drive supercharged omega for two years, not for two days...
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i would say there would be a lot of reliabilty probs with all the pressure on the pipes and engine i think turbo would be the best opion i think
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i would say there would be a lot of reliabilty probs with all the pressure on the pipes and engine i think turbo would be the best opion i think
this engine won't handle tubro until you make expensive modifications...
i just wanna make some soft charge (about 5PSI)
here you can find interesting turbo vs. supercharger comparison:
http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/41016-i-think-some-people-were-too-quick-write-off-supercharger.html
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turbo seems to work o.k with v6 saab engines and calibra v6turbo, so could work well with omega very similar engine i thought both gm units arn't they
www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/saab-9-3-v6.htm
there is also insignia's and vectra's with v6 turbo's now wow 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) :y :y :y :y
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turbo seems to work o.k with v6 saab engines and calibra v6turbo, so could work well with omega very similar engine i thought both gm units arn't they
www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/saab-9-3-v6.htm
1. i don't need turbo to achieve 5 PSI
2. installing turbo would be really more expensive than supercharger
3. installng turbo would be more complicated to fit (oil, cooling, lack of place for exhaust pipes)
4. turbo won't be efective under 3000rpm, supercharger 'gives power' instantly all over the rev range (no turbo lag)
5. i wanna be unique and i want to have supercharger :)
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. i don't need turbo to achieve 5 PSI
2. installing turbo would be really more expensive than supercharger
3. installng turbo would be more complicated to fit (oil, cooling, lack of place for exhaust pipes)
4. turbo won't be efective under 3000rpm, supercharger 'gives power' instantly all over the rev range (no turbo lag)
5. i wanna be unique and i want to have supercharger
i agree turbo would be more expensive to install however would offer better performance than supercharging
turbos have changed since the late 80's when turbo lag was at its height. the advance of turbos over the years with ceramic varible vane technolgy etc turbos can give boost from as low as 1250 revs to 5000 revs where as a supercharger is limited by design to give a linar power surge 1000 revs to 4000 revs and takes power from the very engine you are trying to rasie power on
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A turbocharger and a supercharger are not really that different as far as the engine is concerned. Yes, the power delivery will be slightly different and the mechanical challenges of fitting them will be different (driving a supercharger from the crank vs. finding somewhere to mount a turbo).
Remember that a turbo leaches power from the engine as well. It's adding restriction to the exhaust system that the engine must work against. Some of that energy would have been wasted anyway, but not all by any means.
Either way "just bolting on" either to a standard engine will give you a very compromised solution.
To make it worthwhile, IMHO, you need to reduce the compression and fit an engine management system that will allow you to properly map the ignition and fuel "on boost". You will then no doubt have other issues like cooling and cam timing to worry about too.
Putting a couple of pounds boost onto an engine that already has 10.7:1 compression is not worth the bother, IMHO.
Kevin
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my friend recenlty has turbocharges his miggy A C30SE, the total cost was about 4000 pounds...
here in V6 it could be even more expensive
Putting a couple of pounds boost onto an engine that already has 10.7:1 compression is not worth the bother, IMHO.
Kevin
well, it's all true, so just like i said, i'm gonna make some soft charging, i don't need turbo with such reserve of power that won't be ever used...
if my 3.0V6 won't handle without reducing compression i will try to use 3.2 V6 engine, it has compression about 10.0:1 afair
it will be some kind of experiment for me, i'm not gonna make 300BHP or more, rather get some practice for projects in future...
i'will probably buy a V6 miggy from UK, because those are really cheap, and i will make all the modifications on this motor. Then, when every thing will be done and working fine the supercharger and stuff will be moved to my car...
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Total vauxhall magazine are doing a step by step on fitting a s/c onto a V6
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my friend recenlty has turbocharges his miggy A C30SE, the total cost was about 4000 pounds...
here in V6 it could be even more expensive
Putting a couple of pounds boost onto an engine that already has 10.7:1 compression is not worth the bother, IMHO.
Kevin
well, it's all true, so just like i said, i'm gonna make some soft charging, i don't need turbo with such reserve of power that won't be ever used...
if my 3.0V6 won't handle without reducing compression i will try to use 3.2 V6 engine, it has compression about 10.0:1 afair
it will be some kind of experiment for me, i'm not gonna make 300BHP or more, rather get some practice for projects in future...
i'will probably buy a V6 miggy from UK, because those are really cheap, and i will make all the modifications on this motor. Then, when every thing will be done and working fine the supercharger and stuff will be moved to my car...
:o :o :o :o
Why not just drop in a V8 for that money?
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A turbocharger and a supercharger are not really that different as far as the engine is concerned. Yes, the power delivery will be slightly different and the mechanical challenges of fitting them will be different (driving a supercharger from the crank vs. finding somewhere to mount a turbo).
Remember that a turbo leaches power from the engine as well. It's adding restriction to the exhaust system that the engine must work against. Some of that energy would have been wasted anyway, but not all by any means.
turbos can handle more power than super chargers,and the restriction you imply would only be a problem if you kept to the standard diametre exhaust
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My twopennorth.
All this talk of 'chargers "robbing" the engine of power to make them work is irrelevant.
The end result is more power/torque, therefore it's how the power is produced and used that changes.
Say that a NA engine kicks out 200BHP then to turbo or supercharge it, and it then kicks out 250 BHP - how can that "rob" power?
You now have an engine that kicks out 25% more power!!! :y
Anyway, to the question of a supercharger for the V6 Omega - there is/was a kit available for the V*ctra B - shouldn't be too hard to dig one out and make it fit an Omega. I think Courtenays in North Walsham, Norfolk, did one.
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turbos can handle more power than super chargers,and the restriction you imply would only be a problem if you kept to the standard diametre exhaust
Erm, no not necessarily.
Check out some big power engines (including diesels) and see how many are turbocharged compared to how many are supercharged.
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A turbocharger and a supercharger are not really that different as far as the engine is concerned. Yes, the power delivery will be slightly different and the mechanical challenges of fitting them will be different (driving a supercharger from the crank vs. finding somewhere to mount a turbo).
Remember that a turbo leaches power from the engine as well. It's adding restriction to the exhaust system that the engine must work against. Some of that energy would have been wasted anyway, but not all by any means.
turbos can handle more power than super chargers,and the restriction you imply would only be a problem if you kept to the standard diametre exhaust
The point I was making is that it's not the case that superchargers sap energy and turbochargers give you power for free.
It's also not the case that one will give you more power than the other. It all depends how they are sized relative to the engine, which is not trivial.
Remember, superchargers are the tool of choice for top fuel drag racers. 5,000+ BHP out of a V8?
Why not just drop in a V8 for that money?
Amen to that. Probably less work and you know for a fact that it'll still be running in 150k miles.
Kevin
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Amen to that. Probably less work and you know for a fact that it'll still be running in 150k miles.
And if built properly, it will still be making pretty much the same power/torque levels as what it did when new.
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please ignore the comments on the 3rd picture..
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/coolanthose.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/mark_engine4.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/hbvresim.jpg)
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I'd forgotten about that one, Cem.
http://www.steinmetz.no/PressRelease.aspx
Kevin
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well V8 would be ideal, but i don't want to make such a big changes to my miggy, and i would like to make my engine extracharged - just for fun & to know how complicated it is (or not) :)
i just wanna make a project similar to steinmetz's one, at the beginning as simple as it can be
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Why not just drop in a V8 for that money? :y
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Some of the Holdens had a V8 in them and there was also a V8 with a supercharger on it in a limited edition.
A friend of mine has one of these supercharged V8's that came out of a car that was bought at a salvage auction, he broke the car for spares but kept the engine and is going to rehome it in an Ultima CanAm that he's just bought. The engine has been on a dyno recently and was making just over 600hp and about 375ft/lb of torque with the possibility of making a lot more hp/torque just by changing a couple of pullies.
I'll let you know how things progress with this.
If one of these will fit in a Holden then it can't be too difficult to fit it in an Omega, probably easier and cheaper than modifying the Vauxhall V6 engine when you consider that you'll need Forged pistons to take the extra power and heat produced inside the engine and your cams will need to be reprofiled to work well in a forced induction engine, and would the crank be strong enough to take the extra power ?
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I'll let you know how things progress with this.
V8 (from Monaro for example) can be fitted in Omega, there were some projects like that here in Poland, but it is a lot of work...
But i'm still interested in project you mentioned with s/ced V8 :)
If one of these will fit in a Holden then it can't be too difficult to fit it in an Omega, probably easier and cheaper than modifying the Vauxhall V6 engine when you consider that you'll need Forged pistons to take the extra power and heat produced inside the engine and your cams will need to be reprofiled to work well in a forced induction engine, and would the crank be strong enough to take the extra power ?
the thing is there's no need to get forged pistons etc for making 5PSI or less, all i have to do is fit the s/c, modify the wheels for the new belt, of course make new air intake and ECU. I don't even need the intercooler at this moment, because the air compression won't be too high.
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A friend of mine has one of these supercharged V8's that came out of a car that was bought at a salvage auction, he broke the car for spares but kept the engine and is going to rehome it in an Ultima CanAm that he's just bought.
Oh dear. Now I'm starting to get jealous. :-* Awesome cars. If money were no object and I lived somewhere with less congested roads.... ::)
Used to camp at the same camp site as the Ultima crowd at Le Mans. They had some great bar stories. One guy got clocked speeding a couple of miles from the belgian border so he decided to make a run for it. Needless to say the Oostende ferry for the return trip was hastily rebooked. ;D
Kevin